|
When I was doing the Shadowrun nerd thing, and rewriting the new edition in my head, one of my ideas was the matrix should behave like Ultraviolet systems do. Deckers and their programs would be like cybernetically enhanced, while technos would be similar to magicians in breaking the rules. Trodes enable full access (which they already do in 5th), but it also opens the realm for custom headware cyberware, helping out in the trix as well. You could also have synergy with bodyware in the meat space giving you some other benefit in the wireless space. It really opened up a whole new dimension on character abilities. It kinda solves two major issues. The first is that Shadowrun has loads of situations where one person plays, and the rest watch. The matrix isn't the only offender, but it's one of the biggest. If you play with a decker using VR, you pretty much have two groups. One in which the decker plays, and the other in which everyone else plays. They give loads of in game lore about cool customized VR systems where amazing and interesting things happen, but one one character in the group ever gets to experience or interact with it. Why write up a custom system if the single decker in the group can just just change his mind and not interact with it? A huge waste. The second is that there's really no telling how much info the players should have access to on the matrix. When your team makes an internet search roll, what should they be allowed to find? Huge corporate secrets are a no, but how much info on someone's life? It wasn't unusual for the team I was in to get 10+ hits on a search test to try to find something. Then you get to tell them why 10 hits doesn't cut it, or reveal plot nuggets through the really boring method of just outright telling them what they found on the 'net. Awesome tabletop experience. If everyone can play on the matrix, then legwork can become its own side-run, where everyone can contribute, and you can not only enhance the plot, but also throw in fantastical settings and reveal plot nuggets that they weren't even directly searching for. A huge win for everyone.
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 12:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 02:39 |
|
|
Liquid Communism posted:That's assuming you want to do the Matrix as a mini-dungeon. There's absolutely nothing wrong with just having the decker say 'I want to hack thing' and the response being 'okay, roll me logic+hacking' and narrate what happens based on successes. This is what I wound up doing after a while and was I feel served pretty well by 3E which put a bit more emphasis on 'on-site' deckers for lack of a better term.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2021 17:37
|
|
|
Liquid Communism posted:There's a reason the Harebrained games just made the Matrix use the same rules as the physical world, with a different set of stats, and that's really how I've had my best luck running it in practice. Yeah, Sombra from overwatch is how I'd want most PC decking to go: i.e. you accompany the team everywhere and then wiggle your fingers and mechanomagic happens and something electronic (or a fat guy's hook) stops working or does your bidding or whatever. Subsystems should be minimal to non-existant. Also pre run legwork seems to, at least in all the groups I've been with, seen as almost an entirely decker thing, with the face doing old fashion face-to-face talking/investigation/fact finding, not even considered, this means there's almost always a 30-45 minute minimum lag after a run where the decker player does their thing with the gm and the other players are either not involved or (arguably worse imo), 99% uninvolved but have to pay attention in the 1% of times they get to have intput. It kills the flow of the game. Ronwayne fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Jul 27, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2021 03:14
|
|
|
Ronwayne posted:Also pre run legwork seems to, at least in all the groups I've been with, seen as almost an entirely decker thing, with the face doing old fashion face-to-face talking/investigation/fact finding, not even considered, this means there's almost always a 30-45 minute minimum lag after a run where the decker player does their thing with the gm and the other players are either not involved or (arguably worse imo), 99% uninvolved but have to pay attention in the 1% of times they get to have intput. It kills the flow of the game.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2021 03:37
|
|
|
But then we'd miss out on the crucial game play experience of the decker loving up getting onto a low security host, leaving it, and logging on again.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2021 03:59
|
|
|
Ronwayne posted:But then we'd miss out on the crucial game play experience of the decker loving up getting onto a low security host, leaving it, and logging on again. 4/5 E is ridiculously stupid on this front. Hacking in 1-3E needed a ton of love to stop deckers from being so isolated, but instead they just got a new and even more nonsensical ruleset. Screw up your steath? Reboot. Got your gun hacked? Reboot.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2021 04:11
|
|
|
I sort of liked 3E in that regard. Since hosts were essentially abstracted into a humongous critter with weird stats and abilities that engaged with the decker (and vice versa) through a bunch of bog-standard opposed tests, it was actually fairly easy to integrate it into the regular action and combat round since everyone would be doing very similar things, except against different opponents. When (meatspace) combat wasn't happening, though, it still kind of bogged down…
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2021 06:21
|
|
|
Tippis posted:I sort of liked 3E in that regard. Since hosts were essentially abstracted into a humongous critter with weird stats and abilities that engaged with the decker (and vice versa) through a bunch of bog-standard opposed tests, it was actually fairly easy to integrate it into the regular action and combat round since everyone would be doing very similar things, except against different opponents. Yeah 3e is the best of all terrible versions of matrix rules. I will say that the first time I played 1e it was myself as GM and a friend who made 6 characters. It was a blast because I could GM decking, astral space metaplane stuff, vehicle combat, etc. without anyone else having to be sidelined. It's almost like 1e was intended to be a 1on1 experience (I know it wasn't, but lol)
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2021 14:51
|
|
|
Finster Dexter posted:Yeah 3e is the best of all terrible versions of matrix rules.  Except it was one character. Having a solo campaign where there was one decker character in a host of NPCs actually ruled.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2021 18:22
|
|
|
Hrm, maybe there is some hope for a better 7e. Looks like Topps may be in some financial straights as the MLB isn't planning to renew their license to make baseball cards. Could be an IP selloff coming.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 10:47
|
|
|
Or nothing will come off it because they've slapped a really high price tag on things. Sadly I don't expect Pegasus to have the money for it either way. Maybe C7 is interested? 
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 11:04
|
|
|
I'd put money in a Kickstarter for a non poo poo company to buy the IP and make a less lovely edition
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 11:05
|
|
|
pegasus is by far the best candidate. theyre germans they know english anyway - and they've been working in the setting for a long time
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 11:07
|
|
|
I'd truly love to see Shadowrun end up with a non clusterfuck system, like maybe Modiphius convert it to 2d20
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 11:14
|
|
|
Bullbar posted:I'd truly love to see Shadowrun end up with a non clusterfuck system, like maybe Modiphius convert it to 2d20 If the last several 2d20 releases are anything to go by, you're not getting a non clusterfuck system out of that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 13:12
|
|
|
I dunno, I liked Dune a lot
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 13:22
|
|
|
So what is there to know about being a sicknasty  vehicular inclined type guy?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 07:23
|
|
|
Which edition? In third there was an absolute gently caress ton to know. In 5th, watch inspector gadget for inspiration. The vehicle rules are, of course, and even bigger hot mess than all previous editions, which is really saying something. Do you want to be a drone dude or the getaway guy? If a drone guy, make sure they have the appropriate software running them for their skills so they can get that sweet 4D6 initiative economy, and then just winnow everything to death.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 07:52
|
|
|
5th, and while I'm not adverse to a bit of drone, like a surveliance rotor or something, I'm mostly looking to be a getaway driver. I know basically nothing about how to do ok with rigging mechanics or what vehicle stuff is a trap or is busted.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 07:55
|
|
|
Do you want to drive fast, or just blow up everyone who tries to chase you?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 08:23
|
|
|
ShootaBoy posted:5th, and while I'm not adverse to a bit of drone, like a surveliance rotor or something, I'm mostly looking to be a getaway driver. I know basically nothing about how to do ok with rigging mechanics or what vehicle stuff is a trap or is busted. You aren't alone in this. I spent a solid day, off and on, trying to figure out the vehicle rules. Ain't done it yet.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 08:33
|
|
|
Ok. Riggers in 5e are basically like deckers, except they don't need an attack or a sleaze attribute. You're in luck, since RCCs (remote control consoles) or your commlink can act just like a deck, and for a hell of alot cheaper. If you rig with cold sim VR, your initiative is (Data processing + intuition ) + 3D6 If you rig with hot sim VR, your initiative is (Data processing + intuition ) + 4D6, and all of your vehicle actions count as matrix actions, which means you get + 2 device for every test You can also get hurt when your vehicle is damaged, but I don't remember those rules, since vehicles are pretty beefy. The Rigger console cyberware also adds it's rating to vehicle tests and reduces the threshold (number of successes needed) when performing stunts by its rating. You need to read up on the intro rules on the matrix since actions that rely on data processing and firewall still apply to you. They really only come into play when the game master decides to throw something that could potentially screw with your connection. Attaching weapons to a standard weapon mount is pretty simple in that you need vehicle + weapon mount + gun. All weapons fired from the vehicle use gunnery, whether by done manually operating them, operating them remotely, or jumping into the vehicle. What attribute to use with gunnery? The original rules say logic when using AR or VR. The errata says use agility, even when jumped into the vehicle (wut). Vehicle combat rules have always kinda been an afterthought. Vehicle mounted weapons also get free additional recoil compensation equal to the body of the vehicle it's mounted to. ninjoatse.cx fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Oct 24, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2021 09:47
|
|
|
My only advice is do not make your GM try to calculate what happens when you hit someone with a car. Whoever wrote the rules for that needs to have their access to numbers revoked.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 07:17
|
|
|
Liquid Communism posted:My only advice is do not make your GM try to calculate what happens when you hit someone with a car. I vaguely recall something about using summoned spirits to accelerate motorcycles past the speed of light.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 10:26
|
|
|
The Lone Badger posted:I vaguely recall something about using summoned spirits to accelerate motorcycles past the speed of light. Every point in the Speed stat doubles the speed of the vehicle. So when you max summon a spirit and have it focus exclusively on making a vehiche faster, it makes it go 224 times faster. Do that to a vehicle with a top speed of 60mph (a slow vehicle) and that's 1.5 times light speed.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 18:40
|
|
|
The Lone Badger posted:I vaguely recall something about using summoned spirits to accelerate motorcycles past the speed of light. one of the vampire variants can also do it, I think it's the elf one?
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 19:50
|
|
|
The Lone Badger posted:I vaguely recall something about using summoned spirits to accelerate motorcycles past the speed of light. quote:"I mean, being a hyperrelativistic muon soup could be a very rewarding roleplaying experience, but let's just imagine it's you and your motorcycle for the moment. From a human point a view, you instantaneously turn into a rapidly advancing ball of plasma shedding a rather lethal sheath of gamma radiation. Of course that radiation can't move faster than light either. Everyone around is dead from that momentarily before your FIRE OF ANNIHILATION consumes them and the rest of San Francisco. Look at the map, figure out which direction you were facing, and then, in three dimensional space, draw a straight line from this point to the horizon and into space because you will obliterate everything along this line in a 15-degree cone. You are a plasma jet carrying all the unfortunate matter that was in your way to make a new ring around Earth. The good news is that you probably don't trigger nuclear winter, but you have sterilized a good chunk of central California and Nevada with your gamma bath."
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 20:11
|
|
|
I always feel like that last “but” should be an “and”.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 20:22
|
|
|
Is there a good writeup of that hilariously bad(4e I think? I forget if it was in 5e also) explosive calculation you had to do? I feel like that'd be great reading alongside that.quote:you will leave an interesting radiation signature in the rocks.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 21:15
|
|
|
Ignite the atmosphere or bust.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2021 01:11
|
|
|
Nalesh posted:Is there a good writeup of that hilariously bad(4e I think? I forget if it was in 5e also) explosive calculation you had to do? I feel like that'd be great reading alongside that. I always laugh when some bro says that if he had been at Hiroshima he would have jumped in the air as the fireball hit so when archeologists found his shadow burned into a wall they would think people in 1945 were able to fly. This “motorcycle plasma” has been right up in there for years!
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2021 04:08
|
|
|
Nalesh posted:Is there a good writeup of that hilariously bad(4e I think? I forget if it was in 5e also) explosive calculation you had to do? I feel like that'd be great reading alongside that. Ah, the "chunky salsa" rule. I think it technically goes all the way back to 2e. This is 4e's version. Shadowrun 4e posted:Blast in a Confined Space
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2021 13:12
|
|
|
It's even worse in earlier editions.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2021 13:52
|
|
|
Nalesh posted:Is there a good writeup of that hilariously bad(4e I think? I forget if it was in 5e also) explosive calculation you had to do? I feel like that'd be great reading alongside that. Yes. I made one when I was raging at it, let me find it. Me, Four drat Years Ago posted:Let me find my math for something my players actually wanted to do. So the group is going to raid an apartment where a drug dealer who stiffed their fixer is holed up, with orders to shoot everyone to teach his bosses a lesson about basic thugonomics. Our Sam, who has a little bit of Demolitions under his belt, decides to open the festivities by slapping a small breaching charge on the apartment door by way of knocking. The following ensues:
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2021 14:20
|
|
|
Holy poo poo it'd be comparible to the Deccan Traps supervolcano eruption?  That was 66 million years ago, lasted for several hundred thousands of years and covered half of India with an up to 2km thick layer of lava. There was also a big meteor strike about halfway through and around 75% of all species on the planet went extinct.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2021 18:15
|
|
|
Hipster Occultist posted:Ah, the "chunky salsa" rule. I think it technically goes all the way back to 2e. He yanked the pin out of an enemy’s grenade and used a riot shield to pin the guy in a corner. When the grenade went off, it was essentially an instantaneous rebound off two walls and the riot shield. The adept was blown backwards, dodged the riot shield that was flying through the air, and landed on the wall unscathed. The enemy was just a puddle.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2021 18:36
|
|
|
Almost a wasted opportunity that they didn't use the blowback force to dropkick a second enemy.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2021 23:44
|
|
|
Probably should have killed the Adept too, barrier rating on a riot shield isn't that high.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 02:40
|
|
|
Liquid Communism posted:Probably should have killed the Adept too, barrier rating on a riot shield isn't that high. Plus it was cooler if the shield blew him backwards with an opportunity to dodge than just disintegrating and pulping him.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 03:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 02:39 |
|
|
Liquid Communism posted:Probably should have killed the Adept too, barrier rating on a riot shield isn't that high. That's the problem with the rule: If the barrier is higher than the force of the explosion, the force gets amplified infinitely, instead of scaling up to the lowest barrier rating holding the explosion in and then doing that much... Wait. If reflecting an explosion makes it stronger, why not put a grenade in a sturdy bucket and throw that at the enemy? I'm beginning to think the "Chunky Salsa Rule" isn't based on empirical scientific evidence.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 08:49
|
|