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JOHN SKELETON posted:I wonder what they will do with stilling and people not recognizing Siuan. I doubt they will bother doing anything at all, unless the actor wants to move on to something else. It's such a minor point, and they can use disguises, hoods, etc. Once they are outside of the Tower, very few people would actually know what the Amrylin looks like. The only affected plot point would be the Gareth Bryne situation, but that's super easy to either cut or change.\ I'm glad they aren't trying to do the 'agelessness' thing. That's something that works okay in book descriptions, but trying to apply to a visual medium would very likely look so artificial that it would make no sense that an Aes Sedai can go undercover. Gully Foyle fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Sep 10, 2021 |
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Sep 10, 2021 13:41
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Yeah, some aspects of the universe are almost laughably difficult to pull off in a live-action adaptation, and are hardly essential to the story. I feel like there's one of those 2D graphs on a whiteboard in the studio where one axis is "easy to film" and the other is "matters to the story" and all the dots that are close to the origin just get dropped and/or replaced with *gasp* other ideas
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Sep 10, 2021 14:00
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JOHN SKELETON posted:I wonder what they will do with stilling and people not recognizing Siuan. Siuan's actress will be changed to Daphne Maxwell Reid.
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Sep 10, 2021 14:14
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Lean right into it and have her stilled self played by a flaming redhead ultra-pale woman, then when she gets her channeling back she's just suddenly Sophie again. No acknowledgement or even mention. We aren’t this lucky but it would be an amazing gimmick
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Sep 10, 2021 14:43
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Not So Fast posted:Siuan's actress will be changed to Daphne Maxwell Reid. could also replace her with Michiel Huisman
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Sep 10, 2021 15:31
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eke out posted:i feel like just have her no longer dress like the most powerful person in the world and change the hair and makeup a little and it'll be easy enough So the Morgase Strategy then. 
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Sep 10, 2021 15:51
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Lord Awkward posted:Mat gets on his horse to leave, and then condense his entire lolling at it being like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30yNlAHXVzQ
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Sep 10, 2021 16:02
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Syncopated posted:There’s an actual chance we get Mat beating the douche bros in the Tower and that should be enough for anyone imho. Ideally Mat beats Gawyn so hard that he disappears from the rest of the story.
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Sep 10, 2021 18:33
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JOHN SKELETON posted:I wonder what they will do with stilling and people not recognizing Siuan. I imagine they'll just ignore it for the sake of simplicity. Alternatively they could add in something new - if you've been stilled channelers have a hard time recognizing/remembering you but generally no one has lived post-stilling long enough to have it be widely known. Kind of related question - children of people who have been stilled generally have a higher probability of being channelers, right?
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Sep 10, 2021 18:41
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Khizan posted:Ideally Mat beats Gawyn so hard that he disappears from the rest of the story. light willing
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Sep 10, 2021 18:44
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Mat Cauthon posted:I imagine they'll just ignore it for the sake of simplicity. I believe so, channeling is at least partially genetic and stilling is the equivalent of cutting their arms off so they can't pick things up any more. Randland's been aggressively culling the population of strong channelers for millennia by killing or stilling the men who spark (and keeping them under house arrest) and by all the Aes Sedai culturally not having kids.
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Sep 10, 2021 18:51
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I don't think the idea of channelling ability being genetic/heritable is ever confirmed in the text. It's a theory that a few Aes Sedai have, and it makes sense with the earlier drafts of the story (wherein men who could channel were castrated as well as severed from the source), but the decline of the Tower's numbers is just as well explained by cultural factors. (See: just how much the rebel tower's novice book swells when they begin active recruitment and drop the age limit.)
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Sep 10, 2021 19:13
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I think it is reasonable to assume it's genetic but specifically the Aes Sedai numbers are dwindling because they're the only channelers that both halve their lifespan, don't have kids, and are dumb about recruitment.
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Sep 10, 2021 19:16
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Shageletic posted:lolling at it being like this If they could pull it off, it'd be amazing, but it might be too much of a tonal shift to really work.
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Sep 10, 2021 19:17
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Gwaihir posted:I think it is reasonable to assume it's genetic but specifically the Aes Sedai numbers are dwindling because they're the only channelers that both halve their lifespan, don't have kids, and are dumb about recruitment. I think they do have kids though, like usually they don't get married or stay married, and obviously they're not having kids throughout their life even though they probably stay fertile for like 300 years, but I feel like we've had internal monologues from even a Red who get to talking about husbands and outliving their kids.
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Sep 10, 2021 19:46
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:I think they do have kids though, like usually they don't get married or stay married, and obviously they're not having kids throughout their life even though they probably stay fertile for like 300 years, but I feel like we've had internal monologues from even a Red who get to talking about husbands and outliving their kids. They outlive their siblings and nieces and nephews, that comes up a lot but otherwise the Aes Sedai generally don't marry or have kids. They know they're going to outlive spouses and kids, and that's not something people generally want to do. It's not like it doesn't happen, but most avoid it. All the other groups of channelers do, but I think the reason we think it's dying out is because we only hear from the Aes Sedai about it. The Aiel and the Windfinders are very clear, every woman who can channel is found and trained and they have a lot of channelers compared to the Aes Sedai. It's really just the Aes Sedai being dipshits that they think channeling is dying out because they refuse to actively recruit, or even just put out a sign saying "Free testing to see if you can channel here".
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Sep 10, 2021 21:48
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seaborgium posted:They outlive their siblings and nieces and nephews, that comes up a lot but otherwise the Aes Sedai generally don't marry or have kids. They know they're going to outlive spouses and kids, and that's not something people generally want to do. It's not like it doesn't happen, but most avoid it. We know in general the amount of Aes Sedai is dwindling and that the people they are getting aren't as strong as they used to be in aggregate. New Spring goes into it quite a bit. Now they're definitely missing a lot of girls like Nynaeve and Egwene who are born in the middle of places no Aes Sedai has been in centuries. But there are clearly some areas they're actively recruiting in/monitoring and the effects of taking the strongest sparkers from those places has seemingly driven down the overall pool. It'd be fascinating to see how the White/Black Towers arms race turned out with the explosion of recruiting new channelers in the 4th Age.
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Sep 10, 2021 21:54
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Zore posted:It'd be fascinating to see how the White/Black Towers arms race turned out with the explosion of recruiting new channelers in the 4th Age. It's really not going to be an arms race though, Cadsuane leads the White Tower and Egwene dreamed of a full tower united. My assumption is a lot more cross-bonding take place between Black Tower and Aes Sedai leadership right away and a hundred years down the line they just merge. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Sep 11, 2021 |
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Sep 11, 2021 00:06
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I also vaguely got the impression that the Black would become the Guardians, open to both men and women, and the White the Servants, again open to all. You'd probably see what was the Green and Red go to the Guardians, with the rest being more suited to servant roles.
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Sep 11, 2021 00:11
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:It's really not going to be an arms race though, Cadsuane leads the White Tower and Egwene dreamed of a full tower united. My assumption is a lot more cross-bonding take place between Black Tower and Aes Sedai leadership right away and a hundred years down the line they just merge. I meant more their arms race as a bulwark against the Seanchan and what kinds of political necessities would shape a world where both men and women can freely channel again.
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Sep 11, 2021 00:27
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It's kind of hard to blame the Aes Sedai for being ineffectual as an institution when they were so hopelessly compromised by Darkfriends.
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Sep 11, 2021 00:43
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Colonel Cool posted:It's kind of hard to blame the Aes Sedai for being ineffectual as an institution when they were so hopelessly compromised by Darkfriends. This is really funny in hindsight, like, literally 20% of all known AS in the book era were loving sworn to destroying the institution and freeing satan lmao.
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Sep 11, 2021 00:58
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Colonel Cool posted:It's kind of hard to blame the Aes Sedai for being ineffectual as an institution when they were so hopelessly compromised by Darkfriends. Aes Sedai were def a pointed critique of powerful bureaucracies tho. It was one of the best things about the seris. The fact that the Aes Sedai literally bound themselves by magic to not lie, and everyone els being weirded out that theres a group of powerful wizards weird enough to do that
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Sep 11, 2021 01:15
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People were weirded out that wizards exist in general, in such a mundane world at series start. The "cannot tell a lie" aspect gave them their credibility and power, Egwene was right.
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Sep 11, 2021 01:19
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I think the other view is right. It seperated thems from average ppl. They literally live in a marble tower
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Sep 11, 2021 01:22
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Yeah, it gave them power in comparison to the other groups of channelers who... Didn't have any power? let's tell a wise one that to their face
SSJ_naruto_2003 fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Sep 11, 2021 |
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Sep 11, 2021 01:30
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Yeah, with the exception of the Seanchan's Damane literally every other cultural group across the world both respects channelers more and has them better integrated into society. Except maybe the dudes down in Australia who missed the who end of the world thing.
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Sep 11, 2021 01:41
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The sul'dam are pretty respected. 
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Sep 11, 2021 01:49
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Colonel Cool posted:The sul'dam are pretty respected. It's why I specified the Damane rather than Seanchan as a whole
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Sep 11, 2021 01:50
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How are u posted:People were weirded out that wizards exist in general, in such a mundane world at series start. The "cannot tell a lie" aspect gave them their credibility and power, Egwene was right. that's literally the opposite of the series examples lol. The other randland groups of channeling women all hold exceptionally high positions in their societies and command universal respect. It's not a subtle message!!!
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Sep 11, 2021 01:50
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Gwaihir posted:that's literally the opposite of the series examples lol. The other randland groups of channeling women all hold exceptionally high positions in their societies and command universal respect. It's not a subtle message!!! They do, but all of them can lie. The Aes Sedai are something different, and it matters.
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Sep 11, 2021 01:51
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Am I wrong, or is it all the people that were part of Hawkwing empire that have all the issues with the people who channel.
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Sep 11, 2021 02:04
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Zore posted:Yeah, with the exception of the Seanchan's Damane literally every other cultural group across the world both respects channelers more and has them better integrated into society. Kinda cheesed we never get to learn anything about them. Three thousand years is a bit too long to just "never get over" the breaking of the world. I think Jordan originally intended them to be a source of the darkfriend armies at the end of the series, kind of like how the armies of Sauron came from the lands to the south or something in Lord of the Rings. Aborted posted:Am I wrong, or is it all the people that were part of Hawkwing empire that have all the issues with the people who channel. On screen, that leaves the Sea Folk, the Aiel, and the Aes Sedai themselves. A few others are briefly talked about, but they never really have a presence.
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Sep 11, 2021 03:39
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ninjoatse.cx posted:Kinda cheesed we never get to learn anything about them. Three thousand years is a bit too long to just "never get over" the breaking of the world. I think Jordan originally intended them to be a source of the darkfriend armies at the end of the series, kind of like how the armies of Sauron came from the lands to the south or something in Lord of the Rings. I mean, that's basically Shara. They get like a dozen vague references before the last battle and then boom, they're there. Also, Aes Sedai are doing better than the Sharan and Seanchan channelers, so they're doing something right. The Glumslinger fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Sep 11, 2021 |
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Sep 11, 2021 04:36
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How are u posted:The "cannot tell a lie" aspect gave them their credibility and power, Egwene was right. The Three Oaths meant that nobody trusted Aes Sedai. Their inability to lie meant that every word that came out of their mouth was examined to death. Everybody knew that their words only had to be technically correct and so everybody always looking for the trick. True words spoken out of context to mislead. The important bit that got omitted to change the meaning. There's also an aspect of it where the fact that you had to swear a magically binding oath about it is suspicious in and of itself. There's an implication there that "Aes Sedai must really want to lie, otherwise they wouldn't need to swear that oath". The Aes Sedai are trusted far less than the Windfinders and the Wise Ones, and the Three Oaths are part of it, imo.
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Sep 11, 2021 04:43
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I'd point to the fact that all the other channeling organizations have smaller spheres of influence They basically only serve their own homogenous societies, where the Aes Sedai are more like the UN.
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Sep 11, 2021 05:45
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Also nobody trusted aes.sedai because they broke the world and channeled openly.
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Sep 11, 2021 05:53
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Also nobody trusted aes.sedai because they broke the world and channeled openly. That's not really why. Historically they were way more trusted in the third age and it was mostly down to darkfriends, Ishy making them top of his 'to gently caress with' list every time he got out of the bore and Hawkwing going absolutely above and beyond Ishy's wildest dreams and crippling public perception. Hawkwing's big heel turn and siege of Tar Valon seems to have been what really did irreparable damage to their legacy and public perception considering how it rippled down through both Randland and Seanchan. Remember before Hawkwing you had full on no-poo poo Aes Sedai as rulers of countries (Manetheran), the tower's population was 5-10x as large as it is in the present and more Aes Sedai were out, and biggest of all there was still probably a lot of cultural cache from how pivotal they were in the Trolloc wars. The Great Hunt even argues the Three Oaths mostly exist in their current form as a reaction to some of Hawkwing's more insidious propaganda, I believe they added the 'make no weapon for one man to kill another' part specifically because of him.
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Sep 11, 2021 08:24
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Zore posted:The Great Hunt even argues the Three Oaths mostly exist in their current form as a reaction to some of Hawkwing's more insidious propaganda, I believe they added the 'make no weapon for one man to kill another' part specifically because of him. Huh. I thought they were a relic of the Trolloc Wars, specifically? I'm not familiar with the connection to Hawkwing.
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Sep 11, 2021 08:55
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Vavrek posted:Huh. I thought they were a relic of the Trolloc Wars, specifically? I'm not familiar with the connection to Hawkwing. Looks like I was mis-remembering a bit. quote:MARIA SIMONS From the Gathering Storm press tour. I thought it said they were locked in because of the War of the Hundred Years not nebulously between the Trolloc Wars and then.
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Sep 11, 2021 09:05
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