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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:right, but we can generally count on humans to be so stubborn and set in their ways that they'd rather go to their graves then wear a mask in the grocery store, so getting people to walk more and eat less ground beef is difficult to the point that you might as well substitute the cars and burgs for less harmful alternatives. anyone who is capable of making a lifestyle change will do so structuring this kind of societal change is what government and the state should be purposed for. there will be a huge reactionary backlash but this needs to be done
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Sep 24, 2021 18:01
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Generic Monk posted:structuring this kind of societal change is what government and the state should be purposed for. there will be a huge reactionary backlash but this needs to be done you'd be more capable of getting away with it in some kind of dictatorship. its arguable whether the purpose of a democracy is to force people to eat their vegetables if they don't want to i think democracy is the best form of government yet practiced, but an emphasis on freedom and autonomy means giving people the freedom and autonomy to make lovely, anti-social choices. from a high level view if we were really serious about climate change we'd forcibly depopulate rural areas and move everyone into dense cities where cars aren't necessary at all. this stance isn't feasible since it isn't compatible with property rights, and the more rights you enshrine the more limits you have on your ability to wrangle society into making better choices Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Sep 24, 2021 |
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Sep 24, 2021 18:17
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Yeah, any politician who would implement a ‘climate change austerity program’ would get crucified by the public response. Edit: Even a lot of left-wing people who live in cities and say that they are committed to environmentalism would likely be unhappy in a world where the price of oil were taxed so that it went up by 10x or whatever. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Sep 24, 2021 |
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Sep 24, 2021 18:20
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The purpose of government is to enact the will of the people in free society, not the other way around. Seriously, wtf is that post. "If only we had a healthy dictatorship things would be all better!!!"
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Sep 24, 2021 18:27
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What if the will of the people is not in the public interest? Millions of people CAN be wrong. This is how SA posters resolve the following paradox: If left-wing politics are so obviously correct and left-wing policies would so obviously serve the public interest, why are they so unpopular in representative democracies?
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Sep 24, 2021 18:36
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silence_kit posted:If left-wing politics are so obviously correct and left-wing policies would so obviously serve the public interest, why are they so unpopular in representative democracies? Poors can't afford to run for office, and anyone with the ambition AND money has other priorities
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Sep 24, 2021 18:38
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silence_kit posted:What if the will of the people is not in the public interest? Millions of people CAN be wrong. Depends on what those democracies are representing I guess. What's popularity got to do with anything?
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Sep 24, 2021 18:41
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Epic High Five posted:Depends on what those democracies are representing I guess. What's popularity got to do with anything? Exactly. Polls consistently show majority support for the adoption of universal healthcare in the United States, but it sure as gently caress will never happen under the current group of politicians.
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Sep 24, 2021 18:47
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Epic High Five posted:That's basically Quorn as I understand it I wanted to like quorn so much. I really did  The idea is good, the recipes look fantastic. But, to my palate, they taste like arse. RFC2324 posted:The purpose of government is to enact the will of the people in free society, not the other way around. So many leftists want nothing more than a big daddy dictator to usher in an age of plenty, solve every problem, overcome all prejudices and brutalise their enemies and hang their flayed skins from the city gates.
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Sep 24, 2021 18:47
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Megillah Gorilla posted:I wanted to like quorn so much. I really did An entire industry dedicated to reinventing the seitan wheel
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Sep 24, 2021 18:49
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wheat gluten wheel???
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Sep 24, 2021 19:22
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RFC2324 posted:The purpose of government is to enact the will of the people in free society, not the other way around. All we need is a benevolent philosopher-king, easy peasy.
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Sep 24, 2021 20:16
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The prevalence of dynasties in "democratic" countries is really starting to make the succession problem feel like either a non-issue or a baked-in kill button for human civilization as a concept, depending on your level of optimism e: wait no that's dumb none of the political system stuff matters this is all capitalism
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Sep 24, 2021 20:30
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silence_kit posted:What if the will of the people is not in the public interest? Millions of people CAN be wrong. consent manufacturing machine go brrr it should be the role of any self professed political movement to provide a consciousness to those deprived of one. the only thing i meant to say is that the assumption that we can go on living as we are will eventually need a massive loving reality check, whether from the state or a grassroots political movement. i’d prefer the latter; it’s less ugly Generic Monk fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Sep 24, 2021 |
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Sep 24, 2021 20:51
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Megillah Gorilla posted:So many leftists want nothing more than a big daddy dictator to usher in an age of plenty, solve every problem, overcome all prejudices and brutalise their enemies and hang their flayed skins from the city gates. Are you... are you threatening us with a good time? I'm very confused. Generic Monk posted:consent manufacturing machine go brrr This part isn't emphasized enough; there's a deliberate campaign of disinformation that persists, even when the people pushing it finally admit that it was all bullshit from the start. The interests of the general public, even when it isn't being warped from the very start, is ignored in favor of the interests of the wealthy.
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Sep 24, 2021 21:01
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Megillah Gorilla posted:So many leftists want nothing more than a big daddy dictator to usher in an age of plenty, solve every problem, overcome all prejudices and brutalise their enemies and hang their flayed skins from the city gates. If it's a choice between that or the Right's dream of a big daddy dictator to bring back Serfdom I know what I'd prefer
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Sep 24, 2021 21:07
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some things are just flatly unpopular, and this can't be blamed on lobbyists. the people don't cry out for a plant based diet, to be thwarted by the sinister machinations of Big Beef "what we really need is a dictatorship" and "if only the people weren't being fooled away from their own self interest by the shadowy elites" are just rationalizations for a legacy of failure and a guarantee of continued failure
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Sep 24, 2021 21:10
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I don’t really believe the theory that everyone would be totally on board with the SA poster left-wing agenda if only they had not been Tricked By The Bad Men. It’s not really obvious to me to what extent the media is planting ideas into people’s minds vs. sort of acting like a mirror and just showing people what they already want to see. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Sep 24, 2021 |
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Sep 24, 2021 21:29
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Ignoring stuff like federally legal weed and M4A that actually polls well but will never ever happen, if you're wondering about the framework of how such a thing like the enclosure of possibilities is possible its analyzed in Capitalist Realism and other works in that vein. Every time someone gets super pumped about how our billionaires are gonna spend our money to LAND ON THE MOON I cant help but think about it
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Sep 24, 2021 21:37
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the government can kick millions of renters out of their houses in a pandemic but subsidizing lab grown beef is a bridge too far and impossible. sorry but thats democracy
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Sep 24, 2021 21:41
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Stexils posted:the government can kick millions of renters out of their houses in a pandemic but subsidizing lab grown beef is a bridge too far and impossible. sorry but thats democracy When did the government kick renters out of houses they own? I must have missed that.
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Sep 24, 2021 21:48
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Sep 24, 2021 21:53
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Motronic posted:When did the government kick renters out of houses they own? I must have missed that. 2007&8, when the Fed bailed out the banks instead of the sub prime mortgage holders and put 3 million people onto the streets.
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Sep 24, 2021 23:35
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you heard it here. you don't deserve a home unless you can afford to own
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Sep 25, 2021 01:32
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Look at what happened to Corbyn if you wonder why leftists can't get office despite supposedly being popular. Every time they get close, 'democracy' suddenly finds reasons why that didn't count, parties burn themselves to the ground rather than let a leftist leader win, and all else fails they just happen to commit suicide via multiple bullets to the back of the head.
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Sep 25, 2021 06:26
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Example: Milquetoast centre-rightist* and man who would effect no worthwhile change despite his promises, Ishiba Shigeru, is significantly more popular with the Liberal Democratic Party of Japan** members than the fossils who the party apparatus prefers to appoint, and is disliked by the MPs themselves. So last time there was a party leadership election*** and Ishiba ran, the party changes the rules from "MPs get so many votes and party members get so many votes" to "MPs get all the votes" * He was the leftmost of all the candidates fwiw. ** A right-wing conservative party *** The party leader basically automatically becomes PM.
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Sep 25, 2021 07:53
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silence_kit posted:I don't work in the chemical or pharmaceutical industry, so the following is speculation. The argument in the article that lab grown meat is scientifically like pharmaceutical production, and the current cost of pharmaceutical production is high, therefore lab grown meat will fundamentally be high cost isn't that persuasive to me. Like, some other enzymes they make is like $25000 for a little 10ml vial it's insane
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Sep 25, 2021 11:07
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Western succ dem parties are populated at the representative level only by those who have compromised enough to become electable. Sometimes people with ideals manage to stumble their way into winning an election from outside the main party machines but they quickly run into opposition from those who hold their comfortable and powerful lifestyle to hewing to liberal democratic structures, and they either bend or break. The very few who manage to overcome this seem to conveniently fall to some sort of scandal, if not an assassin's bullet
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Sep 25, 2021 11:43
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You can hand out your little flyers with your points written on them on the street corner, and I'll have a billion-dollar media machine shouting my points from every device in the world.
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Sep 25, 2021 15:23
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Am I the only person on the planet that loving loathes the the fact that I received 25 text messages this morning before noon? Not counting the amber alert I got. I haven't even checked my email today but I'm sure that's a big old inbox of bullshit. I'm getting old and know I'm an outlier but I totally hate that this all considered the New Normal. Would like to throw that phone in the loving ocean a lot of the time. The subject of landlines and robocalls came up in the USNews thread and that's other layer of absolute bullshit that makes me think being available 24/7/265 might not be what we should call "progress". We've probably covered the spam calls, emails and all that but it's a god damned nightmare. A "tech" nightmare of sorts.
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Sep 26, 2021 19:39
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Your own behavior or response to this incessant contact is what trains people your responses will be and therefore sets expectations. I don't respond to texts immediately, almost ever. If something is important enough that you need me right now you should call me. And don't be surprised if I don't answer because I don't carry my phone all the time, because I'm not on call for any of you. I am not that person to you. I am not your emergency contact (unless I am). Managing alerts and do not disturb lists, where only people like my wife and daughters calls or texts will notify me, goes a long way.
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Sep 26, 2021 19:48
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BiggerBoat posted:Am I the only person on the planet that loving loathes the the fact that I received 25 text messages this morning before noon? Not counting the amber alert I got. I haven't even checked my email today but I'm sure that's a big old inbox of bullshit. is it spam texts, or are you complaining that you have an full social life? because the spam texts are bullshit, but at least my phone has started marking them as spam(after showing them to me)
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Sep 26, 2021 20:10
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RFC2324 posted:is it spam texts, or are you complaining that you have an full social life? Both. I just don't like having to babysit my tiny noise machine all the time is all.
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Sep 26, 2021 20:32
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BiggerBoat posted:Both. I just don't like having to babysit my tiny noise machine all the time is all. Then... just... don't. Establish healthy boundaries with the people in your life.
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Sep 26, 2021 20:38
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There Bias Two posted:Then... just... don't. Establish healthy boundaries with the people in your life. this I'll glance at my phone when it goes off, but that doesn't mean I do more than identify if its from someone actually important plus, my phone is old and sucks rear end, and doesn't reliably fire notifications anymore, so I miss half of them anyway. its pretty nice
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Sep 26, 2021 20:58
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Wife: You didn't respond to my text? Me: You said you were finished your errands in town and you were on your way home. And here you are home again after your 30 minute drive. Why did I need to respond? Wife: So I knew you got my text.
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Sep 26, 2021 21:27
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TheScott2K posted:If it's a choice between that or the Right's dream of a big daddy dictator to bring back Serfdom I know what I'd prefer I don't think it is a choice between those two things, no, not at all.
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Sep 26, 2021 21:30
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Cheesus posted:Wife: You didn't respond to my text? sms is not guaranteed. its mostly reliable, but occasionally messages still just never get delivered because thats how the technology works(they piggyback on the back of a "where are you" message that cell towers send to the cell phone, and being deliverable at all was an accident)
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Sep 26, 2021 21:39
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There Bias Two posted:Then... just... don't. Establish healthy boundaries with the people in your life. My friends know. My ex wife is another matter. There's also poo poo like job searches, bill payments, appointment confirmations, etc. etc. Going "off the grid", even on a semi to light basis, seems next to impossible to me. The world just feels too loving noisy. I can't imagine what it's like for the average person who really embraces all this poo poo and sees it as a net positive. I realize that all this says more about me than the tech. I just don't think it improves quality of life and such and I'm just venting.
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Sep 26, 2021 21:40
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BiggerBoat posted:My friends know. My ex wife is another matter. There's also poo poo like job searches, bill payments, appointment confirmations, etc. etc. Going "off the grid", even on a semi to light basis, seems next to impossible to me. just set aside like an hour a day and your exwife is your ex, you don't have to keep going out of your way to please her
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Sep 26, 2021 21:44
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