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El Gallinero Gros posted:He was supposed to win the WM4 tournament. The most common answer is Hogan. Why, though? Wanted Savage to have it? Didn't want DiBiase?
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Oct 18, 2021 00:16
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Admiral Joeslop posted:The most common answer is Hogan. Why, though? Wanted Savage to have it? Didn't want DiBiase? He thought he'd look better going over Savage I believe
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Oct 18, 2021 00:19
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heels also almost never had real championship runs in that company up to that time. the only one who had more than a transitional reign of less than a month was billy graham, and even his was considerably shorter than the babyfaces before and after him.
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Oct 18, 2021 00:34
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Okay so this is more a weird musing than anything. So in Mexican wrestling title matches are generally not as big a draw as lucha de apuestas, matches with stakes, most commonly hair/mask matches. Off the bat, you can book a title match to end with no effective change, the champ retains. But in a stakes match the loser has to give up something. So, hair matches, not a huge deal, the loser gets their head shaved. Mask matches though, losing a mask is basically a gimmick change. Your entire image changes even if your personality doesn’t. I’m having trouble articulating this but basically, this seems harder to book. How often are the big Lucha Libre promotions having these matches, like on a per year basis? Is it tricky to find enough guys willing to take the loss? What kind of stakes are there beyond hair and masks? I realize I’m basically asking how Lucha Libre works but hopefully this is something people wanna talk about.
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Oct 18, 2021 00:36
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You get people to lose an apuesta Match by paying them. According to the Wrestling Observer (or another site quoting the WON, not able to confirm that myself) Dr Wagner Jr got paid over $250,000 by AAA to drop his mask to Psycho Clown. That's a record because he's obviously a huge star. If you're willing to pay there will always be guys willing to drop their mask or hair.
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Oct 18, 2021 00:52
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Getting a promoter to pay for your haircut is the most wholesome grift in wrestling Look up any old luchador on Wikipedia and they'll have like 40 hair matches they all lost. Those guys knew how to play the game.
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Oct 18, 2021 01:06
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Thauros posted:heels also almost never had real championship runs in that company up to that time. the only one who had more than a transitional reign of less than a month was billy graham, and even his was considerably shorter than the babyfaces before and after him. Arguably Graham could have had a really good run as champ but Vince (Sr.) had made the deal with Bob Backlund to get the belt and, shockingly, honored it.
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Oct 18, 2021 01:10
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Lily Catts posted:I was watching a NOAH match when I noticed that Katsuhiko Nakajima was wearing a pair of bands around the fingers of his right hand (left hand was bare). What are they for? Potentially boring answer - if a finger is jammed but not broken you'll sometimes tape an adjacent finger to it to aid in the healing process and help prevent re-injury.
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Oct 18, 2021 01:10
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Why did Ted DiBiase never get a real title run, just bad timing? My understanding was that he was supposed to win it at WM4, but Savage politicked his way to winning because he failed to regain the IC title from Honky Tonk Man around this time and losing the tournament on top of that would have made him look like poo poo.
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Oct 18, 2021 01:35
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They do Mask matches generally at the big shows, ie wrestlemania (Triplemania or CMLL Anniversary) The object is to draw money, so basically you look at a veteran guy who is a top guy (ie John Cena) and you find another heel say John Morrison who is going to look good without a mask, and give the younger guy a push, he then tries to take the Mexican John Cena's mask off in a match, and challenges the babyface, babyface accepts and they have a match. Sometimes yes they struggle to find people but generally they try to only do it if they will look good (ie Andrade) without a mask, or they think they are going to WWE and want to get the money for the match before they go (Ie Averno who I believe ended up staying lol but also Andrade) That's the basic program for say, when Atlantis's mask was on the line. Hair matches you get "paid to take a haircut" and is easier to find people. But if you are a top star you aren't losing your mask generally. Also they will book lower card guys against other lower card guys to win masks to get a push and build a reputation. Again, the loser either wants a new gimmick or is good looking or ugly enough or talented enough to do fine without.
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Oct 18, 2021 01:40
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Claytor posted:Potentially boring answer - if a finger is jammed but not broken you'll sometimes tape an adjacent finger to it to aid in the healing process and help prevent re-injury. That makes sense, I thought it would be to wrestle better, as opposed to alleviating injury.
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Oct 18, 2021 02:03
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Okay suddenly I just remembered that a group of goons used to watch a terrible indy promotion with Dick the Bruiser Jr. on commentary? Does anybody remember which promotion that was?
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Oct 18, 2021 02:59
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rare Magic card l00k posted:Okay suddenly I just remembered that a group of goons used to watch a terrible indy promotion with Dick the Bruiser Jr. on commentary? Does anybody remember which promotion that was? That's not NWA Mountain State with The Stro?
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Oct 18, 2021 03:34
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algebra testes posted:That's not NWA Mountain State with The Stro? I think you mean with The Best Today, Diablo Jr.
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Oct 18, 2021 03:50
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rare Magic card l00k posted:Okay suddenly I just remembered that a group of goons used to watch a terrible indy promotion with Dick the Bruiser Jr. on commentary? Does anybody remember which promotion that was? I believe that was just Bruiser Wrestling.
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Oct 18, 2021 05:22
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Gavok posted:My understanding was that he was supposed to win it at WM4, but Savage politicked his way to winning because he failed to regain the IC title from Honky Tonk Man around this time and losing the tournament on top of that would have made him look like poo poo.
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Oct 18, 2021 18:42
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FUCKFACE MORON posted:The story I heard is that it was HTM who refused to drop the IC title to Savage, so Plan B was to give him the WWF Title, which is kinda funny. But he was cool getting squashed for it by Warrior?
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Oct 18, 2021 19:18
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Honky Tonk Man is a very strange person who still refuses to job at indy shows.
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Oct 18, 2021 20:01
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Imagine thinking being the Honky Tonk Man entitles you to an ego of any measure.
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Oct 18, 2021 20:07
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Honky Tonk Man rules because Prowrestlingtees has a Cameo style gimmick and HTM is one of only two people charging 200 bucks for a video. Hangman Page is the other.
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Oct 18, 2021 20:18
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Page was also donating like half of that to charity and isn't even taking bookings for them right now, Honky Tonk Man just looked at it and was like "who's charging the most? me, too" like a shrewd businessman
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Oct 18, 2021 20:24
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Dawgstar posted:Imagine thinking being the Honky Tonk Man entitles you to an ego of any measure. He's the longest reigning Intercontinental Champion of all time, you can't just have some jabrony beat him!
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Oct 18, 2021 20:26
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My favorite HTM moment is back when TNA was doing the Monday Night Wars 2.0, HTM was spreading rumors that he was going to get signed. Even as lovely as TNA was at the time, Bischoff still said something along the lines of, "I would rather jam a screwdriver into my leg and twist than sign him."
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Oct 18, 2021 20:28
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Yeah Bischoff really hated HTM for some reason lol
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Oct 18, 2021 20:30
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Karma Tornado posted:Page was also donating like half of that to charity and isn't even taking bookings for them right now, Honky Tonk Man just looked at it and was like "who's charging the most? me, too" like a shrewd businessman Oh lmao I didn't know that part, HTM is even cooler now.
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Oct 18, 2021 20:30
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Honky Tonk Man sucks so bad. The times they had him on commentary for Shotgun Saturday Night were god awful.
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Oct 18, 2021 23:40
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Honky Tonk Man quite rightly has called the WWE Hall of Fame a complete bunch of horseshit, so who's to say what's right in this crazy world.
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Oct 19, 2021 00:04
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It's him telling the story, so who knows if it's true, but I like HTM telling the story that whenever he was told he was dropping the title, he'd ask "Then what's for me after?" and the WWF would never have an answer, so he'd say he wasn't dropping.
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Oct 19, 2021 00:09
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My buddy paid HTM like $300 to show up at an event and guitar him out of nowhere
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Oct 19, 2021 00:12
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FUCKFACE MORON posted:Yeah Bischoff really hated HTM for some reason lol Apparently goes back to WCW lol.
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Oct 19, 2021 00:12
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algebra testes posted:Apparently goes back to WCW lol. Specifically, HTM was going to job to Johnny B. Badd on PPV, but tried to hold Bischoff up for money to go through with it. Bischoff told him to gently caress off and has despised him ever since.
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Oct 19, 2021 02:39
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1glitch0 posted:But he was cool getting squashed for it by Warrior? If I recall Dave's telling correctly: Honky was told he was jobbing to Savage and then absolutely no plans were in place for him afterwards, so he felt disrespected and refused to go through with it. When they planned for Warrior to go over, management didn't make that faux pas.
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Oct 19, 2021 06:15
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CommonShore posted:My buddy paid HTM like $300 to show up at an event and guitar him out of nowhere I really hope it wasn't a wrestling event and had nothing to do with him. Like it'd be the perfect way to end a big presentation at a conference.
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Oct 19, 2021 08:14
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Gonna book Honky Tonk Man for my wedding.
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Oct 19, 2021 10:21
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Arbite posted:If I recall Dave's telling correctly: Honky was told he was jobbing to Savage and then absolutely no plans were in place for him afterwards, so he felt disrespected and refused to go through with it. When they planned for Warrior to go over, management didn't make that faux pas. The answer was apparently Rhythm and Blues and feuding with the Bushwackers so HTM got what he deserved in the end.
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Oct 19, 2021 14:08
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sticklefifer posted:I really hope it wasn't a wrestling event and had nothing to do with him. Like it'd be the perfect way to end a big presentation at a conference. It was for his pre wedding social. I'm not even sure the bride knew
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Oct 19, 2021 14:29
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CommonShore posted:It was for his pre wedding social. I'm not even sure the bride knew I kinda wanna get RKO'd outta nowhere at my wedding now.
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Oct 19, 2021 17:30
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It's a little silly but also at the start of an inflection point in the business, in that HTM was supposed to drop the belt to Savage at the first prime time "Main Event" show on TV. At that point wrestling was built around using TV as an advertisement for house shows and increasingly pay-per-views, where all of the real money was made, and so Honky didn't like the idea of getting beat in front of a primetime network TV audience, which would make him seem like a TV jobber. Like I said, [SN]ME vs. Superstars/Wrestling Challenge is some serious apples vs. oranges, but here are the people Savage had beaten in the previous year in televised matches: Sivi Afi, Jim Powers, George Steele*, SD Jones, Nick Kiniski, Jerry Monti, Bill Anderson, David Stoudemire, Sonny Rogers, Omar Atlas, Brady Boone, Steve Lombardi, Scott Casey, Tiger Chung Lee, Rick Renslow, Shadow #2, Van Van Horne, Rick Oliver, Bret Hart*, Honky Tonk Man*, Barry Horowitz, Terry Gibbs. The bolded names were all on Saturday Night's Main Event, but the first George Steele match (and the first HTM match) were both gently caress finishes where Savage won by DQ/count-out. I do get why someone from his generation would have the "you don't lose on TV" mentality in 1988, though. Presumably that's also why he was seemingly much more willing to drop the belt to Warrior at Summerslam later in the year, and then spend the fall main/semi-main eventing against Warrior at like sixty house shows in the fall/winter.
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Oct 19, 2021 17:58
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The real question here is why did HTM have a title in the first place
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Oct 19, 2021 18:55
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Because Vince got pissy over Ricky Steamboat taking paternity leave so he jobbed him to
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Oct 19, 2021 18:59
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