|
Especially if you fire a BP weapon.
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 01:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 21:01 |
|
|
bunch of loving goons hanging out inside all day like if you just GO OUTSIDE all day you will get dirty
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 01:55
|
|
|
I’m finally watching 1917, anything in particular I should be wary of or on the watch for?
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 02:14
|
|
|
Xiahou Dun posted:I’m finally watching 1917, anything in particular I should be wary of or on the watch for? fritz
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 02:17
|
|
|
Xiahou Dun posted:I’m finally watching 1917, anything in particular I should be wary of or on the watch for? the donkeys leading the three lions
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 02:56
|
|
|
Xiahou Dun posted:I’m finally watching 1917, anything in particular I should be wary of or on the watch for? The spot where Dr. Strange mugs Sherlock Holmes and takes his place.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 03:42
|
|
|
Yeah and wasn’t expecting Robb Stark to show up either. No idea how historically accurate it was beyond me not noticing something egregious like laser guns or flying spiders, but if the goal was to make me feel dread and sadness for 2 hours with some really amazing cinematography, then it was a rousing success.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 03:56
|
|
|
The thing that was really strange to me about 1917 was the choice of the date. In some ways the story could have taken place on any date, but they happened to pick the exact date the US joined the war. I wondered if there is some intent to it, like this was the day the tide of the war turned and these guys have no clue it even happened. The movie's reasonably accurate apart from the fact they compressed distances for obvious reasons.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 04:09
|
|
|
Fangz posted:The thing that was really strange to me about 1917 was the choice of the date. In some ways the story could have taken place on any date, but they happened to pick the exact date the US joined the war. I wondered if there is some intent to it, like this was the day the tide of the war turned and these guys have no clue it even happened. the main plot device was the german move to the hindenburg line which happened in the spring of 1917
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 04:18
|
|
|
The movie also takes place at the start of the massive Nivelle offensive and a couple of days before the Canadians took Vimy Ridge. There's a lot happening in early April 1917.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 04:22
|
|
|
Yeah I was watching it while someone came in and out of the room and this exchange happened : Other person : “…did something really bad happen in the spring of 1917?” Me : “The 1917 Spring Offensive.” Other person : “Oof, yeah. That’ll do it.” And they even say the distance was 9 miles, and they certainly tried their level best to make it feel like a long walk, but it clearly doesn’t literally take place over anywhere near that distance. But I’m not gonna hold that as criticism cause they really did the best they could short of having a 9 mile long dolly shot.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 04:47
|
|
|
Xiahou Dun posted:short of having a 9 mile long dolly shot. They should've done it
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 05:01
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:everything is far too clean This is my go to criticism for portrayals of war, particularly on television.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 06:54
|
|
|
Natty Ninefingers posted:This is my go to criticism for portrayals of war, particularly on television. Mine is that the protagonists are always far too old.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 12:26
|
|
|
Cyrano4747 posted:Mine is that the protagonists are always far too old.  The worlds oldest pathfinder
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 12:30
|
|
|
Yeah, everybody is so drat old. There's some cases where it's allowed, like Finnish WW2 participation, since the total mobilization and an eternal conscript military meant that regular mobilization included corporals and second lieutenants who were 40 years or more easily. Hard to find war movies were protagonist looks like this.  
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 13:03
|
|
|
Isn't that mostly going to be a thing for modern conscript armies? Older professional armies full of hardened veterans are going to skew a tad older. Your typical longbowman or landsknecht or man-at-arms could have been campaigning for a decade.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 13:17
|
|
|
I mean, Germany had drafted men into their 40s into regular front line service by like 41/42 IIRC, and even with that the average age of their soldiers was like 5+ years younger than that of the Western Allies (and I think the Soviets as well). And in the post above there's soldiers in those pictures, thinking the landing craft pic, who look like they're at least mid-twenties (which was the average age for an American soldier in WWII, 25/26 IIRC).
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 13:22
|
|
|
Phobophilia posted:Isn't that mostly going to be a thing for modern conscript armies? Older professional armies full of hardened veterans are going to skew a tad older. Your typical longbowman or landsknecht or man-at-arms could have been campaigning for a decade. You still have a ton of very young enlisted. Across all branches of the US military 51.7% of the active duty enlisted were under 25 in 2017.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 13:24
|
|
|
Vahakyla posted:Yeah, everybody is so drat old. There's some cases where it's allowed, like Finnish WW2 participation, since the total mobilization and an eternal conscript military meant that regular mobilization included corporals and second lieutenants who were 40 years or more easily. OTOH serving in a hot war seems to age people super fast.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 13:27
|
|
|
glynnenstein posted:You still have a ton of very young enlisted. Across all branches of the US military 51.7% of the active duty enlisted were under 25 in 2017. I could actually imagine a conscript army in (total) war time might average older than a professional army like the US's, because in addition to the recently trained soldiers it's going to be calling up alot of the older reserves also to augment its numbers, that's kind of how most or all conscription-based armies work you get called up, serve for 1 or 2 years in active service and then remain in the reserves for like 10+ years after that, perhaps occasionally called up for training or mobilized for emergencies.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 13:33
|
|
|
Record keeping is alot better these days so kids that can't even vote aren't doing infantry. Also nutrition. Alot of people grew up malnourished during the world wars. These days calories are way too cheap, and even then protein isn't too hard to get. I remember seeing a twitter meme about the virgin soy'd up modern soldier with a poster of an anime catgirl and the giant chad WW2 soldier with a poster of Rita Hayworth, and that is categorically bullshit: your typical WW2 Troop was tiny.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 13:37
|
|
|
1917 is 'authentic' without being accurate. The core premise of the film and the protagonists mission is nonsense and doesn't make any sense if you stop and think about it, but that's not the point. This is what an Allied trench looked like. This is what no man's land looked like. This is what the German trenches would look like. This is what the battle area behind the trenches looked like. This is what launching an assault from a trench looks like. It's a series of vignettes with modern camera and sound work that give you the feeling of what it was like to be there - it's why the film is shot as if it's a single take - the audience becomes a third protagonist silently following the cast through events.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 13:40
|
|
|
Randarkman posted:I could actually imagine a conscript army in (total) war time might average older than a professional army like the US's, because in addition to the recently trained soldiers it's going to be calling up alot of the older reserves also to augment its numbers, that's kind of how most or all conscription-based armies work you get called up, serve for 1 or 2 years in active service and then remain in the reserves for like 10+ years after that, perhaps occasionally called up for training or mobilized for emergencies. I haven't thought about this much, but based on some quick googling it looks like the average age doesn't shift a whole lot. Unvetted sources other than 2017, but it looks like the average age in the union army in the civil war was about 25.8, in WW2 was about 26, and today is about 27. US society was probably notably proportionally younger in those older eras, too.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 13:41
|
|
|
Phobophilia posted:Also nutrition. Alot of people grew up malnourished during the world wars. These days calories are way too cheap, and even then protein isn't too hard to get. I remember seeing a twitter meme about the virgin soy'd up modern soldier with a poster of an anime catgirl and the giant chad WW2 soldier with a poster of Rita Hayworth, and that is categorically bullshit: your typical WW2 Troop was tiny. At least in IIRC WWI, and I would assume the same probably holds true for WWII, American soldiers were noted for being notably taller and sturdier than both British and French soldiers (and I assume Germans as well).
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 13:49
|
|
|
The Lone Badger posted:OTOH serving in a hot war seems to age people super fast. Case in point:  Eugen Stepanovich Kobytev, a soldier in the Red Army. Left at age 20 in 1941, right at age 24 in 1945. Though he also went through a stint in a Nazi POW camp, before escaping in 1943 and rejoining the army.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 13:50
|
|
|
Eugen saw some poo poo. I've brought it up in this thread before, but if you haven't seen it, check out Claire Felicie's work Here are the Young Men - She creates triptychs of photos of Dutch marines before, during and after deployment to Afghanistan.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 14:27
|
|
|
Cyrano4747 posted:Mine is that the protagonists are always far too old. This always stands out for me. But it's going to vary by unit and war. The soldiers in an elite - like those Pathfinders - are going to be 18-25 or so, with their NCOs and officers in their late 20s. But "Germans defending the beaches on D-Day" are generally going to run older. (Edit: And, of course, you're going to have some odd units in history that skew a LOT older, like Alexander's veterans in the Successor era.) And, absent being in the muddy Western Front, soldiers aren't caked in mud 24/7. They can, and do, clean themselves. That said, their gear and uniforms should generally be more faded, patched, etc.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 14:58
|
|
|
Randarkman posted:At least in IIRC WWI, and I would assume the same probably holds true for WWII, American soldiers were noted for being notably taller and sturdier than both British and French soldiers (and I assume Germans as well). Well at least in WWI by the time the US soldiers start showing up the Brits and French have gone through most of the prime stock. Also the US had the privilege in both wars of being picky about who they draft.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 15:19
|
|
|
Randarkman posted:At least in IIRC WWI, and I would assume the same probably holds true for WWII, American soldiers were noted for being notably taller and sturdier than both British and French soldiers (and I assume Germans as well). German soldiers in the early years of WWII were notably fit - Nazi culture pre-war emphasized a lot of outdoor fitness activities. But by 1943, the young fit guys were in shallow graves in the USSR, so they took what they could get.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 15:22
|
|
|
From what I see in reenactments, the Germans do appear to be on the chonkier side.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 15:34
|
|
|
Ensign Expendable posted:From what I see in reenactments, the Germans do appear to be on the chonkier side. As this historically accurate documentary shows... 
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 15:37
|
|
|
Cessna posted:As this historically accurate documentary shows... Luftwaffe personnel were known to emulate the head of their service.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 16:01
|
|
|
Cessna posted:German soldiers in the early years of WWII were notably fit - Nazi culture pre-war emphasized a lot of outdoor fitness activities. But by 1943, the young fit guys were in shallow graves in the USSR, so they took what they could get. Weren't they fit but small though, owing to the fact that a 21 year old in 1939 would have been born during the blockade?
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 16:34
|
|
|
Thread favorite Barthas was IIRC, 38 when he was called up. In 1914.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 17:13
|
|
|
dublish posted:Luftwaffe personnel were known to emulate the head of their service. Yeah but this guy knew nothing. Miloshe posted:or in the case of a bi-pod mounted machine gun, having someone lying atop you while spotting etc. etc. I'm sorry, what? The thing about the patriot that gets me is that shortly before the film came out, Mel Gibson did an episode of the Simpsons where they remake "Mr Smith Goes to Washington" and Homer's buffoonish input turns the climax into a action movie cliche. Exemplifying that cinematic excess is a part where Mel impales a man on a flag, killing him - a hilariously exaggerated spoof of course. That episode came out in '99 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8imsr2WmEg One year later https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kbpd34Vwow 
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 17:21
|
|
|
sullat posted:Thread favorite Barthas was IIRC, 38 when he was called up. In 1914. I got that as an ebook based on the recommendation of this thread. It absolutely slaps.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 17:23
|
|
|
zoux posted:Yeah but this guy knew nothing. THANK YOU I spotted this connection at the time and I thought it was uncanny.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 18:28
|
|
|
Master and Commander got it right in that the crew of HMS Surprise were a mix of ages, dirty, and most importantly, everyone was ugly.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 19:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 21:01 |
|
|
Vahakyla posted:Hard to find war movies were protagonist looks like this. Die Brücke (1959).
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2021 19:02
|
|
