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I mean, I'm only an amateur writer, but try and imagine it's 199x and you barely have the internet and you're sitting down to write a battle (with one finger, which apparently GRRM still does lol) where you have to maintain a cohesive character-driven plot and you just want to say "the pikes wheeled around" because you're one human who wants to write about patriarchal power structures and Qarl the Maid's cum.
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Nov 13, 2021 05:04
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my favorite grrm anecdote is how he became extremely croggled during that interview with stephen king where king offhandedly mentioned he writes about 2,000 words per day
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Nov 13, 2021 05:17
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PupsOfWar posted:my favorite grrm anecdote is how he became extremely croggled during that interview with stephen king where king offhandedly mentioned he writes about 2,000 words per day i'm pretty sure gurm's head would fuckin explode if he had a conversation with the author of the wandering inn
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Nov 13, 2021 05:26
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pidan posted:
That's honestly one of the biggest lost opportunities with the show. Throughout the show (and books) there's hints that at least some form of divine being or beings exists, but it doesn't go anywhere.
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Nov 13, 2021 08:47
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pidan posted:
There's the whole novella about Dunk beating Aerion Flea Bottom-style. Also Strong Belwas and the Champion of Meereen.
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Nov 13, 2021 10:17
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As much as I like  about historical fighting, I'm really not going to hate on GRRM for that specifically. If I want a really autistically researched story about historical warfare I'll read something by Christian Cameron, but GRRM's writing of combat and warfare is generally good enough. Bronn versus Ser Vardis worked as good storytelling, accuracy can be secondary. Jorah demonstrating the value of armor was a good scene, and in aDwD the same got raised again when Barristan easily killed the much younger and physically fitter gladiator because he was armored and the gladiator wasn't. Victarion boarding a ship in full armor because he didn't fear drowning, and thus having a decisive advantage against the unarmored defenders, was another good storytelling bit, and again, realism doesn't have to be foremost in a fantasy story.
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Nov 13, 2021 13:43
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Kylaer posted:. Victarion boarding a ship in full armor because he didn't fear drowning, and thus having a decisive advantage against the unarmored defenders, was another good storytelling bit, and again, realism doesn't have to be foremost in a fantasy story. People wearing armor when boarding ships wasn't that uncommon though. The majority of the people on the ships couldn't swim anyways so the armor would.ve made little difference if the they fell overboard.
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Nov 13, 2021 14:24
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Kylaer posted:As much as I like Thanks now I'm angry at Barristan's show death, and how the showrunners responded to the actor, again.
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Nov 13, 2021 14:35
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Alhazred posted:People wearing armor when boarding ships wasn't that uncommon though. The majority of the people on the ships couldn't swim anyways so the armor would.ve made little difference if the they fell overboard. I know this. As I said, I read Christian Cameron's stuff too. I said it was a good storytelling bit and that realism doesn't have to be foremost in a fantasy story. I'll bash GRRM for his many flaws but I don't think his imperfect grasp of historic fighting is worth bashing him over.
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Nov 13, 2021 14:43
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The maneuver that the Northmen pull off during the TV show Battle of the Bastards would only work with highly trained elite footmen, rather than the rabble that they are supposed to be. I'm okay with it. I don't think I've ever seen a 'realistic' ancient battle on film. Typically we get invincible horses that can just roll over anything and absolutely confused mishmash melees with no one wearing helmets. I think the closest we've ever got was during a short sequence in the HBO Rome TV show where the legions are fighting in a proper line and rotating men. One of the hotheads runs out to do the typical Hollywood poo poo and gets chewed out by his centurion. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7MYlRzLqD0
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Nov 14, 2021 01:54
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The stupid battle of course also had the usual Good Guy Soldier: Sir should we fire? Good Guy General: No, we’re just as likely to hit our own men! *scene switch* Evil Guy General: Prepare to fire on my order Evil Guy Soldier: Sir we’ll hit our own men! Evil Guy General: *laughs evily* And then bootleg Riders of Rohan to the rescue. Christ I cannot believe there was three straight goddamn years of people gaslighting the idea that seasons 5,6,7 didn’t suck.
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Nov 14, 2021 02:49
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:The stupid battle of course also had the usual My default position on it was "eh, it's not THAT good but it's better than what GRRM will ever give us, which is nothing." I was just holding out until the ending, because they had a perfect glide path to a serviceable finale ahead of them, what the gently caress were gonna do? Make Dany go crazy in three second and have everyone just pick Bran to be the king for no reason? Wait.
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Nov 14, 2021 05:00
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Just... never gonna not point out how loving tacky and obvious it was to have Samwell literally write "A Song of Ice and Fire." I feel like that doesn't get nearly enough poo poo.
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Nov 14, 2021 05:19
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mind the walrus posted:Just... never gonna not point out how loving tacky and obvious it was to have Samwell literally write "A Song of Ice and Fire." I feel like that doesn't get nearly enough poo poo. it's just a pale riff on tolkien which is really what benioff and weiss wanted all along tbh. maybe they should have adapted shannara instead but then again there aren't any tits in it
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Nov 14, 2021 05:24
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Mr. Grapes! posted:The maneuver that the Northmen pull off during the TV show Battle of the Bastards would only work with highly trained elite footmen, rather than the rabble that they are supposed to be. I'm okay with it. I don't think I've ever seen a 'realistic' ancient battle on film. Typically we get invincible horses that can just roll over anything and absolutely confused mishmash melees with no one wearing helmets. I think the closest we've ever got was during a short sequence in the HBO Rome TV show where the legions are fighting in a proper line and rotating men. One of the hotheads runs out to do the typical Hollywood poo poo and gets chewed out by his centurion. Lol this scene is poo poo
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Nov 14, 2021 07:22
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RCarr posted:Lol this scene is poo poo it's not bad. the gauls should also be in formations with only some hotheaded brawlers (possibly naked ones) charging forward, a guy does a hollywood jump at the formation like he's a zombie or something - it's also not good. but the cycling of the front line, the use of a sound signal (the whistle) instead of shouted orders, the emphasis on formation fighting and everyone treating pullo like he's a piece of poo poo for being a gloryhound that left a hole in the formation...that's all so far above most film and TV battles as to make it one of the best depictions of pre-modern war, and it is the best specifically roman scene by a mile afaik.
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Nov 14, 2021 07:48
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Yea I mean that’s the problem with TV/Movies. No one wants to see a dead accurate portrayal of ancient war tactics. Seeing two armored Knights wrestling in the mud for 15 minutes trying to slide a blade through an armor joint isn’t compelling. You have to take liberties for the visual medium you are working with.
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Nov 14, 2021 08:13
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RCarr posted:Yea I mean that’s the problem with TV/Movies. No one wants to see a dead accurate portrayal of ancient war tactics. Seeing two armored Knights wrestling in the mud for 15 minutes trying to slide a blade through an armor joint isn’t compelling. You have to take liberties for the visual medium you are working with. It becomes kinda funny though when the more heroic the character is the less armor he has. Like, Aragorn wears more armor at his coronation than he does during battles.
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Nov 14, 2021 14:25
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Gimli and Boromir are the only heroes that wear poo poo for protection iirc. And Frodo's mithril.
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Nov 14, 2021 14:39
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Gimli and Boromir are the only heroes that wear poo poo for protection iirc. And Frodo's mithril. Faramir and co do too, but they're all wearing plate (the bad guys wear a lot of it too) where as I recall literally everyone in the books wears chainmail only.
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Nov 14, 2021 14:50
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Gimli and Boromir are the only heroes that wear poo poo for protection iirc. And Frodo's mithril. That scene always bothered me. Even if the spear couldn't penetrate the chain armor the blunt force of a troll showing a stick into him should've killed Frodo.
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Nov 14, 2021 15:00
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Alhazred posted:That scene always bothered me. Even if the spear couldn't penetrate the chain armor the blunt force of a troll showing a stick into him should've killed Frodo. Hobbits have +2 con
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Nov 14, 2021 16:02
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I was never clear on if movie Frodo was faking the injury when the troll gets him or not. drat, LotR is so much better than Song of Game and Thrones even when it's bad.
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Nov 14, 2021 16:05
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Look man, if it doesn't beat your AC, you can tank a hit from a storm giant. That's just science. 
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Nov 14, 2021 16:09
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I was never clear on if movie Frodo was faking the injury when the troll gets him or not. He was trying to rouse Merry and Pippin's spirit and give them the courage they needed to fight the troll.
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Nov 14, 2021 16:54
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RCarr posted:Yea I mean that’s the problem with TV/Movies. No one wants to see a dead accurate portrayal of ancient war tactics. Seeing two armored Knights wrestling in the mud for 15 minutes trying to slide a blade through an armor joint isn’t compelling. You have to take liberties for the visual medium you are working with. You should watch The King on netflix, it does exactly this, and its a Shakespear adaptation.
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Nov 14, 2021 20:18
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Also Kingdom on Netflix, for a historical period piece with zombies that is actually good
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Nov 14, 2021 20:30
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RCarr posted:Yea I mean that’s the problem with TV/Movies. No one wants to see a dead accurate portrayal of ancient war tactics. Seeing two armored Knights wrestling in the mud for 15 minutes trying to slide a blade through an armor joint isn’t compelling. You have to take liberties for the visual medium you are working with. i do understand why late middle ages stuff tends to focus on longsword duels and the other tourney fighting styles instead of the war techniques like grappling. obviously even people at the time thought that the reality of how two knights would fight each other in war was boring to watch as entertainment. there's a lot less justification for non-realism outside of that narrow 1300-1500 time period though imo.
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Nov 14, 2021 20:43
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Jazerus posted:i do understand why late middle ages stuff tends to focus on longsword duels and the other tourney fighting styles instead of the war techniques like grappling. obviously even people at the time thought that the reality of how two knights would fight each other in war was boring to watch as entertainment. there's a lot less justification for non-realism outside of that narrow 1300-1500 time period though imo. It'd be awesome to show one of those weird HRE judicial duels, where people have crazy shields, or they put the man in a hole and his wife gets to beat him.
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Nov 14, 2021 21:57
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^^^^ hell yea gimme some of that poo pooJazerus posted:it's not bad. the gauls should also be in formations with only some hotheaded brawlers (possibly naked ones) charging forward, a guy does a hollywood jump at the formation like he's a zombie or something - it's also not good. but the cycling of the front line, the use of a sound signal (the whistle) instead of shouted orders, the emphasis on formation fighting and everyone treating pullo like he's a piece of poo poo for being a gloryhound that left a hole in the formation...that's all so far above most film and TV battles as to make it one of the best depictions of pre-modern war, and it is the best specifically roman scene by a mile afaik. The Gauls should look far more like the Romans, and also the Romans are packed far, far too densely.
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Nov 14, 2021 21:57
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Alhazred posted:That scene always bothered me. Even if the spear couldn't penetrate the chain armor the blunt force of a troll showing a stick into him should've killed Frodo. its magic metal
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Nov 14, 2021 22:14
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It's non-newtonian metal
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Nov 14, 2021 22:21
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Collateral posted:You should watch The King on netflix, it does exactly this, and its a Shakespear adaptation. yeah, it's a good one
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Nov 15, 2021 01:20
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RCarr posted:Lol this scene is poo poo I'm not saying it is amazing. I'm just saying it is the best we've got. If you've seen something that has done it better I'd be glad to see it.
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Nov 15, 2021 10:44
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i'll never not be mad about the tv show's treatment of my boy Edmure
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Nov 16, 2021 01:45
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Edmure's actions at Stone Mill were absolutely correct and it's dumb as hell that the show used it to paint Robb as a cool badass instead of a lovely boy king.
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Nov 16, 2021 03:36
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Edmure's actions at Stone Mill were absolutely correct and it's dumb as hell that the show used it to paint Robb as a cool badass instead of a lovely boy king. yeah edmure did the thing he should have done in the absence of being told that he ought to feign defeat and allow a crossing. not exactly something you do without explicit orders lol
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Nov 16, 2021 04:12
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Whenever the show tried to talk strategy, it always sounded kind of dumb.
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Nov 17, 2021 02:50
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Jazerus posted:yeah edmure did the thing he should have done in the absence of being told that he ought to feign defeat and allow a crossing. Not exactly something you do without explicit orders lol Agreed. If trapping Tywin up north was so vital to Robb's plan, he should have told the gatekeeper, so to speak. Otherwise, it's dumb to assume a lord will just let an army cross into his territory to burn poo poo down and maybe secure a stronger position. In the books there are signs that most people see Edmure as soft or incompetent, perhaps unfairly. To me he's just not the heartless monster that seems to thrive in Gurm-written war. I mean, how DARE her take in smallfolk into the caslte when the riverlands were being raided? He should have kicked them outside to greet the tender mercies of Gregor Clegane! You're saying he missed the sail when shooting to set his dad's floating bier on fire? Pfft, what a weakling, letting the fact that his ailing father passed away while he was out campaigning get to him! And in the show, of course, they turned it up to eleven, to the point of being made into a joke at the faux-Holy Roman Empire election.
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Nov 17, 2021 04:58
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Yeah, the idea in the book is that everybody who perceives Edmure sees him as a weirdo because he's not a feudalist sociopath like them, but D&D took that characterization as "he is literally a dumb comic relief character hurr hurr."
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Nov 18, 2021 02:44
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