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uPen posted:How do the Two Rivers Wisdoms not know they can channel? Even if they only have one girl with the spark every few generations, and only 1 in 4 of those survive they'd still have several women wandering around who look 40 but have been chilling for centuries. During the book's timeline there's 3 or 4 girls just from this generation that have the spark so if that's the normal rate they'd be producing someone capable of living centuries every 20-50 years or so, there would be dozens of them wandering around. The wheel weaves as the wheel wills.
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Nov 17, 2021 19:59
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Skyl3lazer posted:(tv magic) Not splitting the one power in to saidin/saidar is actually probably the cleanest way to remove a key part of the gender essentialism without really changing the story beats. Thinking about it more, I really like it as the solution to trans issues in the show world. Sure it feels like a big change, but when you drill in to it I think changing the dichotomy to "how men and women USE the power is different" vs the power itself being different solved a lot of issues, and is an easy distinction to add in other places. what? did they do this in the show?
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Nov 17, 2021 20:00
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Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:what? did they do this in the show? It's true in the books as well. Saidar and Saidin are the same but since men and women are incapable of sharing information with one another nobody ever figured it out.
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Nov 17, 2021 20:05
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Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:what? did they do this in the show? The words "saidin" and "saidar" aren't in the first six episodes. They appear to be just sort of eliding the issue a bit.
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Nov 17, 2021 20:05
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OK. the post I quoted was incredibly stupid so I hope they don't do that. it is One Power, with two halves. the power coming out of logain is black and the power coming out of moiraine is white in the show so maybe they'll get into that later.
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Nov 17, 2021 20:11
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Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:OK. the post I quoted was incredibly stupid so I hope they don't do that. it is One Power, with two halves. It's more subtle than that. The Power that Logain uses starts white, then the blackness covers it.
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Nov 17, 2021 20:14
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there's a lot of ways to handle it that don't involve weird  poo poo and talk about how men have to be dominant and beat their magic into submission and whatever the gently caress else, so i really have no problem with whatever they may be aiming for
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Nov 17, 2021 20:28
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Johnny Joestar posted:there's a lot of ways to handle it that don't involve weird lol (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 17, 2021 20:34
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apparently controversial opinion here: saidin and saidar do not need to Be Fixed
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Nov 17, 2021 20:38
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Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:apparently controversial opinion here: saidin and saidar do not need to Be Fixed When they are it's called being gentled and stilled.
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Nov 17, 2021 20:38
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jng2058 posted:It's more subtle than that. The Power that Logain uses starts white, then the blackness covers it. I know it's been said before, but that really is an ingenious way of showing the taint. It's the best change they've made that I've seen so far.
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Nov 17, 2021 20:40
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The only thing that bugs me about that clip is making Nynaeve an orphaned baby. Her father teaching her to track better than any boys in Emonds Field is a minor but pretty spot on bit of character that they dropped for no real reason and that bums me out a lot. Obviously this isn't a make or break thing but it's frustrating because lots of the best parts of the series are little one line details and while I'm all for changes that are in service to the new medium, little changes for no real reason are bleh to me. Can't wait until Friday, nonetheless.
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Nov 17, 2021 21:19
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eke out posted:this got posted in the other thread and is really cool, closeups on assembling the trolloc costumes and the carbon fiber/titanium stilts goddamnit....ugh...i'm...hyped... gently caress
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Nov 17, 2021 21:27
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Soysaucebeast posted:I know it's been said before, but that really is an ingenious way of showing the taint. It's the best change they've made that I've seen so far. This clip has Rafe taking about what he asked for the vfx to show Saidin and lol it's so "MAKE IT AS DISGUSTING AND VILE AND SEEP IN TO THINGS" https://youtu.be/trr7FZSumZ8
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Nov 18, 2021 01:27
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Gwaihir posted:This clip has Rafe taking about what he asked for the vfx to show Saidin and lol it's so "MAKE IT AS DISGUSTING AND VILE AND SEEP IN TO THINGS" Rosamund saying "The women have a structure, and use it responsibly" was pretty hilarious.
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Nov 18, 2021 01:54
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Gwaihir posted:This clip has Rafe taking about what he asked for the vfx to show Saidin and lol it's so "MAKE IT AS DISGUSTING AND VILE AND SEEP IN TO THINGS" This makes it sound like they aren't changing Saidar/Saidin at all from the books? WAFO I guess.
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Nov 18, 2021 02:01
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We're gonna go full Mass Effect 2 evil red scar lines by the time we get to the asha man.
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Nov 18, 2021 02:02
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Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:OK. the post I quoted was incredibly stupid so I hope they don't do that. it is One Power, with two halves. There is literally no reason it has to be for the story of the book to work. It's totally possible that they bring it back after the first 6 eps but they can do men are from Mars women are from venus wrt magic without splitting the source. I mean hell saidin and saidar could just refer to technique. Skyl3lazer fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 03:04
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Skyl3lazer posted:There is literally no reason it has to be for the story of the book to work. It's totally possible that they bring it back after the first 6 eps but they can do men are from Mars women are from venus wrt magic without splitting the source. it doesn't refer to technique. it refers to two actually literally different things. the Taint on one of the two different things is responsible for most of the story.
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Nov 18, 2021 03:33
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Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:it doesn't refer to technique. it refers to two actually literally different things. the Taint on one of the two different things is responsible for most of the story. Yeah. If Saidar and Saidin aren't separate discrete things, then the Taint can't be a separate, discrete thing. And if the Taint isn't a discrete thing, then Rand can't cleanse it, and you lose one of the larger tent-pole events of the series, and with it the model for the solution to imprisoning the Dark One.. Gender essentialism is dumb, but it's also woven not just into the setting of the books, but into the plot itself. You can't cut it out without gutting the plot.
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Nov 18, 2021 03:57
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Skyl3lazer posted:There is literally no reason it has to be for the story of the book to work. It's totally possible that they bring it back after the first 6 eps but they can do men are from Mars women are from venus wrt magic without splitting the source. Then you quickly run into 'why don't they just teach men to channel with saidar?'. Or why Rand has to be associated with Saidin at all. If they were going that route we would have already seen the groundwork. You'd have men as Aes Sedai and probably at least one woman being hunted as a false Dragon. The closest we've gotten is Moiraine including Nynaeve and Egwene as potential Dragon Reborn candidates but as literally everything else is hewing to the original script I really doubt they're gonna throw out one of the central pillars of the story. Like arguably making Saidin/Saidar the same worsens the issue because the people going insane are still all men who are just doing it for shits and giggles I guess?
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Nov 18, 2021 04:05
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Zore posted:Then you quickly run into 'why don't they just teach men to channel with saidar?'. Or why Rand has to be associated with Saidin at all. or you run into the issue of "men are just tainted" which is basically the same issue, but somehow worse tbh
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Nov 18, 2021 04:08
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they're probably just not saying the words because there's already too many weird sounding words to introduce new people to and there's no need to do saidar/saidin yet
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Nov 18, 2021 04:25
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eke out posted:they're probably just not saying the words because there's already too many weird sounding words to introduce new people to and there's no need to do saidar/saidin yet It really sounds like something the show should get into explaining once Rand's undeniably aware he's a channeller and Egwene/Nynaeve get some formal Tower training. Before then casual viewers don't need to know more than that magic drives only men insane.
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Nov 18, 2021 04:49
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Killer robot posted:It really sounds like something the show should get into explaining once Rand's undeniably aware he's a channeller and Egwene/Nynaeve get some formal Tower training. Before then casual viewers don't need to know more than that magic drives only men insane. yeah exactly, i'd be surprised if we spend much time in the tower without hearing those terms. or in some lesson while they're on the road with moiraine
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Nov 18, 2021 05:02
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it's probably only something that might only be even remotely relevant as a distinction starting in season 2, and even beyond that i don't think people should expect them to start dedicating a bunch of time to the insane amount of arbitrary and pointless distinctions about power levels and whatever the hell else that differ between them that have no relevance in a way that would even remotely translate well to video
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Nov 18, 2021 05:21
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every time i look something up and see the hilariously incomprehensible power level rankings on the wiki they make me laughquote:Nynaeve al'Meara is one of the most powerful female channelers in this Age. In TWoTC she is described with a potential strength level of 3(+10), but she has still to reach her full potential, in fact her current strength in the power is at level 4(+9). give one of the forsaken a ter'angreal power reader like vegeta
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Nov 18, 2021 05:24
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The behind the scenes videos literally have Pike and others using the words saidin and saidar when explaining what the Power is, I think you can relax
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Nov 18, 2021 08:45
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eke out posted:every time i look something up and see the hilariously incomprehensible power level rankings on the wiki they make me laugh they should just hand out the character sheets from the d&d wot
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Nov 18, 2021 10:17
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uPen posted:How do the Two Rivers Wisdoms not know they can channel? Even if they only have one girl with the spark every few generations, and only 1 in 4 of those survive they'd still have several women wandering around who look 40 but have been chilling for centuries. During the book's timeline there's 3 or 4 girls just from this generation that have the spark so if that's the normal rate they'd be producing someone capable of living centuries every 20-50 years or so, there would be dozens of them wandering around. They don't Channel consciously, and in fact many if not all of them have blocks that prevent them from Channeling most of the time. It's possible that longevity is due directly to regular exposure to the Power. If they're not using it as frequently as an Aes Sedai, then maybe they live long lives, but not outstandingly long lives. Like Nynaeve may have gone weeks, heck even months, without ever touching Saidar.
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Nov 18, 2021 11:13
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I know Ally is being contrarian but her spending so much time talking about how much she loves Berelain (and ignoring how much she ignores consent) and then spending twenty minutes ranting about maidens kiss is... Somewhat annoying
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Nov 18, 2021 12:23
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I know Ally is being contrarian but her spending so much time talking about how much she loves Berelain (and ignoring how much she ignores consent) and then spending twenty minutes ranting about maidens kiss is... Somewhat annoying Yeah they have some blind spots. The other big one that springs to mind is how they talk a lot about not judging other cultures by our own standards but then get super judgmental against the tuatha'an culture.
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Nov 18, 2021 13:02
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Atlas Hugged posted:They don't Channel consciously, and in fact many if not all of them have blocks that prevent them from Channeling most of the time. It's possible that longevity is due directly to regular exposure to the Power. If they're not using it as frequently as an Aes Sedai, then maybe they live long lives, but not outstandingly long lives. That would be a sound theory if not for the Kin. They channel as little as possible, but the oldest member is 600 years old. She's also pretty strong, which along with Sorilea (200+, barely channels) and Cadsuane (305 but bound) tracks with longevity being a function of strength, not usage. By that standard, though, Wisdoms would still not live as long as their potential might suggest because without training they'd never reach their full strength. Jedit fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 13:14
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I know Ally is being contrarian but her spending so much time talking about how much she loves Berelain (and ignoring how much she ignores consent) and then spending twenty minutes ranting about maidens kiss is... Somewhat annoying There's also the fact that Berelain is not in a position of power while she's in house arrest in the Stone. If anything she's being pressured by her patron High Lords.
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Nov 18, 2021 13:16
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The Kin are also tower-trained, which matters.quote:The channelers of the One Power have a lifespan considerably longer than normal human beings. But this can vary a lot from a channeller to another, depending on many factors, such as the strength in the One Power and the sex. https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/One_Power So you only get the really long lifespans for really really powerful channellers, and there aren't many of those. If you figure most village wisdoms to be on the weaker side of the curve, and also only channelling rarely, it'd probably just turn into "wow, Old Lini is the oldest woman in the village, nobody can remember how old she is" and it getting left at that a lot of the time.
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Nov 18, 2021 13:19
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They do also rarely get posted to their own village, so one can imagine an actual system where they do shuffle around as they age. In fact we don't know that the Kin don't run the can-listen-to-the-wind wisdoms.
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Nov 18, 2021 13:22
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I can't help but think that even if the show manages to make itself palatable in today's gender landscape, damane aren't gonna fly on TV
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Nov 18, 2021 13:34
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Data Graham posted:I can't help but think that even if the show manages to make itself palatable in today's gender landscape, damane aren't gonna fly on TV Why not? Is that in any way worse than some of the gross stuff in GoT? Especially considering that all the main cast are absolutely horrified at the concept? Just have the Seanchan capture a male channeler and use him for a bit, before putting him down with the explanation of "because of the taint, they can at most be used safely for a few months before becoming useless and a danger to everything around them".
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Nov 18, 2021 13:41
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Maybe that's where the bar is now, I don't know. I never saw GoT
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Nov 18, 2021 13:58
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:There's also the fact that Berelain is not in a position of power while she's in house arrest in the Stone. If anything she's being pressured by her patron High Lords. Her introduction was her trying her hardest to force herself on rand, literally ignoring him saying no over and over
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Nov 18, 2021 14:00
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