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If she had just called it an adaption instead of a translation there would be no problem.
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Nov 18, 2021 19:51
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As the resident thread Dantista, I'm having a complicated reaction to whatever the gently caress that is supposed to be
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Nov 18, 2021 20:23
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Sham bam bamina! posted:We're going to lay Arndt and Nabokov to rest is all I'm saying. It will be a time of healing. This is the kind of thing where I could see Nabokov actually coming back from the dead to avenge
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Nov 18, 2021 20:41
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mdemone posted:As the resident thread Dantista, I'm having a complicated reaction to whatever the gently caress that is supposed to be "What if we did what Maria Dahvana Headley did with Beowulf, but bad."
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Nov 18, 2021 20:59
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it's funny how Dante is so fundamentally parochial but also so good that people try to make him more universal and wrangle it so that you shouldn't have to know about all these Viterbese banking clans to get it. Also its interesting that people only ever seem to aggressively contemporanise poetry and not prose
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Nov 18, 2021 21:30
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Ras Het posted:it's funny how Dante is so fundamentally parochial but also so good that people try to make him more universal and wrangle it so that you shouldn't have to know about all these Viterbese banking clans to get it. Inferno is the only canticle that is this way, because it is the most overtly political of the three. Dante was well aware that his references to damned souls would age quickly, which is why he has several of them describe their sins in broad terms initially, even if the particulars of the event are then also brought up in the conversation to help contemporaneous readers. Dante was not writing for posterity, even though he achieved it; the Inferno text screams out to be read dramatically and enjoyed in a similar mode as one might enjoy a reality TV show today. Purgatorio and Paradiso, less so, but those canticles have different aims and techniques generally speaking.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:38
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There's lots of politics in Purgatorio too and the imperial restoration theme (which isn't "parochial" of course but certainly dated) is still present in Paradiso. fwiw I liked Paradiso best, the theological discussion and the imagery are really cool and it feels like there's more room to breathe, while in Inferno and Purgatorio it feels like we're hurriedly running through all of world history
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Nov 18, 2021 21:46
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Ras Het posted:There's lots of politics in Purgatorio too and the imperial restoration theme (which isn't "parochial" of course but certainly dated) is still present in Paradiso. fwiw I liked Paradiso best, the theological discussion and the imagery are really cool and it feels like there's more room to breathe, while in Inferno and Purgatorio it feels like we're hurriedly running through all of world history Yeah the dominionist stuff is the one thing about Paradiso that I think doesn't connect with us at this late date. But that's totally forgivable from a dude who was shitposting on a road trip 700 years ago. Did you read the Clive James? I was very proud of him for the effort.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:52
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No I read the Penguin Classics, Kirkpatrick
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Nov 18, 2021 21:54
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Ras Het posted:No I read the Penguin Classics, Kirkpatrick That's a decent one. I think Musa captures the flair a little better sometimes. And there were some moments in Kirkpatrick that were a little too purple. But it's good enough. I always recommend the Durling/Martinez volumes because their translation is much more direct so that you can see the actual words Dante chose, without having to confine them to any kind of rhyme scheme (and forget about terza rima in English). But the best part of the D/M editions are the endnotes of each canto, and the short essays on thematic concerns. Simply outstanding scholarship and criticism, they are a real prize of my bookshelf.
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Nov 18, 2021 22:05
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Ras Het posted:Have you been waiting since before 1986 Ah poo poo I guess since I just read about him in the news recently he won but it's because he has a new book out. I never keep track of prizes Anyway apparently interest in him picked up with the new novel publisher decided to reissue it I guess and all of a sudden I can check out a new edition since the library ordered a bunch of copies. Ignore my time travelling Segue fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 22:21
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Tree Goat posted:As abandoned as Wall Street on a weekend https://twitter.com/of_forgetting/status/1461370289263153155?s=21 please kill me
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Nov 18, 2021 22:27
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https://twitter.com/YassifyBot/status/1461128612896292864 it's this, but for poetry
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Nov 18, 2021 22:55
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Segue posted:Man, I remember Gaddis's JR being recommended through here and it's just...okay? I'm about three quarters through and while interesting conceptually it's a really long performance of one note. bruh
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Nov 19, 2021 09:41
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me reading 700 pages of epic funny finance morons yelling at each other with a minimum of 1 joke per page: hmm, needs editing down, and these people are all kind of bad
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Nov 19, 2021 09:44
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Ras Het posted:Also its interesting that people only ever seem to aggressively contemporanise poetry and not prose I assume it's because i'ts extremely hard to keep meter/rhyme while maintaining "meaning" in a translation. You have to make drastic choices whichever focus you choose. In prose, you're free-er to stick to the meaning but in poetry, you have to either go all one or the other. Idk, the only poem I've ever translated was Soya's en kærligheshistorie ("A Love Story"): hand in hand hand in it it in hand it in it Which imo still comes off more stilted than the Danish
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Nov 19, 2021 15:56
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The recent Gaddis takedown in the lrb was funny and ensured that I never want to read him
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Nov 19, 2021 16:51
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While we’re on the topic, I thought I read that a lot of Divine Comedy translations fizzle out after Inferno, and never finish. Is that true?
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Nov 19, 2021 16:58
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Ras Het posted:The recent Gaddis takedown in the lrb was funny and ensured that I never want to read him 
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Nov 19, 2021 16:59
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so many posts baffled OP doesn't like Gaddis, but no posts on why Gaddis = gud. Curious!
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Nov 19, 2021 17:02
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Ras Het posted:The recent Gaddis takedown in the lrb was funny and ensured that I never want to read him got a link?
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Nov 19, 2021 17:47
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Carthag Tuek posted:Idk, the only poem I've ever translated was Soya's en kærligheshistorie ("A Love Story"):
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Nov 19, 2021 17:48
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Ras Het posted:The recent Gaddis takedown in the lrb was funny and ensured that I never want to read him I'm guessing you mean this one? This is also a baffling take because the reviewer seems to completely miss the point of both The Recognitions and JR. The chaos is the point. And just loving lmao because Gaddis actually spends half of the Recongitions mocking moronic critics like him. So my take is that someone felt butthurt and decided to take it out with this "scathing" critique. And to criticize Gaddis as unable to write prose is just flat-out wrong: The Recognitions posted:Tragedy was foresworn, in ritual denial of the ripe knowledge that we are drawing away from one another, that we share only one thing, share the fear of belonging to another, or to others, or to God; love or money, tender equated in advertising and the world, where only money is currency, and under dead trees and brittle ornaments prehensile hands exchange forgeries of what the heart dare not surrender. quote:Each generation was a rehearsal of the one before, so that that family gradually formed the repetitive pattern of a Greek fret, interrupted only once in two centuries by a nine-year-old boy who had taken a look at his prospects, tied a string around his neck with a brick to the other end, and jumped from a footbridge into two feet of water. Courage aside, he had that family's tenacity of purpose, and drowned, a break in the pattern quickly obliterated by the calcimine of silence. quote:"How ... how fragile situations are. But not tenuous. Delicate, but not flimsy, not indulgent. Delicate, that's why they keep breaking, they must break and you must get the pieces together and show it before it breaks again, or put them aside for a moment when something else breaks and turn to that, and all this keeps going on. That's why most writing now, if you read it they go on one two three four and tell you what happened like newspaper accounts, no adjectives, no long sentences, no tricks they pretend, and they finally believe that they really believe that the way they saw it is the way it is ... it never takes your breath away, telling you things you already know, laying everything out flat, as though the terms and the time, and the nature and the movement of everything were secrets of the same magnitude. They write for people who read with the surface of their minds, people with reading habits that make the smallest demands on them, people brought up reading for facts, who know what's going to come next and want to know what's coming next, and get angry at surprises. Clarity's essential, and detail, no fake mysticism, the facts are bad enough. But we're embarrassed for people who tell too much, and tell it without surprise. How does he know what happened? unless it's one unshaven man alone in a boat, changing I to he, and how often do you get a man alone in a boat, in all this ... all this ... Listen, there are so many delicate fixtures, moving toward you, you'll see. Like a man going into a dark room, holding his hands down guarding his parts for fear of a table corner, and ... Why, all this around us is for people who can keep their balance only in the light, where they move as though nothing were fragile, nothing tempered by possibility, and all of a sudden bang! something breaks. Then you have to stop and put the pieces together again. But you never can put them back together quite the same way. You stop when you can and expose things, and leave them within reach, and others come on by themselves, and they break, and even then you may put the pieces aside just out of reach until you can bring them back and show them, put together slightly different, maybe a little more enduring, until you've broken it and picked up the pieces enough times, and you have the whole thing in all its dimensions. But the discipline, the detail, it's just ... sometimes the accumulation is too much to bear."
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Nov 19, 2021 17:52
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ThePopeOfFun posted:so many posts baffled OP doesn't like Gaddis, but no posts on why Gaddis = gud. Curious! he's good because he writes good and creates compelling characters and interesting plots. hth
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Nov 19, 2021 17:52
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thehoodie posted:creates compelling characters and interesting plots. hth Hmm I don't know. Plots? Kind of sounds like a fantasy book. Edit: i cant commit to the bit! I just want to see some effort posts like that Murakami one a couple pages back. I’ll do one on Light in August once I finally finish it. ThePopeOfFun fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Nov 19, 2021 |
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Nov 19, 2021 18:18
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ThePopeOfFun posted:Hmm I don't know. Plots? Kind of sounds like a fantasy book. i obviously meant plots as in conspiracies... not really but there are lots of good conspiracies too! anyway its been too long since i've read jr or recognitions to do an effortpost but whenever i read agape agape or carpenter's gothic i will see if i have any effort
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Nov 19, 2021 18:46
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thehoodie posted:And to criticize Gaddis as unable to write prose is just flat-out wrong: The middle one is fun but the other two just read like some dumbo's idea of what "fine writing" should be
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Nov 19, 2021 18:54
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Take the plunge! Okay! posted:I love talking about that book. The descent into the underworld is one of the most memorable chapters ever. Make sure to read up on the ancient Mexica myths explored in the book. The entire book consists of adapted mythology. I love how--I want to say--phantasmagorical the whole novel becomes when she crosses the border. I ordered the collection that includes Kingdom Cons and The Transmigration of Bodies, and I am very excited to read those as well.
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Nov 19, 2021 19:43
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PeterWeller posted:I love how--I want to say--phantasmagorical the whole novel becomes when she crosses the border. I ordered the collection that includes Kingdom Cons and The Transmigration of Bodies, and I am very excited to read those as well. Yeah, it really does. Also her brother’s new life, how about that for a plot twist. I should read more Herrera.
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Nov 19, 2021 20:10
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Take the plunge! Okay! posted:I should read more Herrera. My thought exactly. 
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Nov 19, 2021 20:13
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Sham bam bamina! posted:I don't see anything stilted about it in English at all and would never have guessed that it was written in another language. How does it read differently in Danish? I guess it's not so bad. Probably cause I know the Danish it feels "off"?
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Nov 21, 2021 11:26
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Heath posted:I picked up Mark Twain's "Roughing It" for the first time since high school and I forgot (or didn't realize in the first place) how funny he is. Every single paragraph is a joke He's just reached (Great) Salt Lake City and has spent 10 pages dunking on Mormons
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Nov 22, 2021 00:37
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thehoodie posted:I'm guessing you mean this one? this seems to take a lot of weird issues with like, the basic concept that a book can be long and that the funny jokes are funny. but also the complaint that the novels don't have enough structure is baffling since all of his books were specifically written with some constraint in mind that determined the structure.
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Nov 22, 2021 10:54
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It also doesn't seem like much of a dunk to point out that a work where two characters embody different conceptions of art (palimpsestic and structurally elegant) is itself an example of the tension between them. That's kind of the point
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Nov 22, 2021 11:24
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Short book rec: Last Night at the Lobster by Stewart O’nan. I really love it, mostly because it’s about service industry people with so-so lives and nowhere to go.
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Nov 23, 2021 03:33
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Read some Alpo Ruuth (real literature). gently caress all y'all.
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Nov 25, 2021 22:56
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Read Paradise Lost and Beowulf. One was way more Christian than I expected, the other one met my expectations. I think Book IX was my favourite of PL, but maybe I was just hyper focused while reading and they are all just as good. Now I guess I should read about the civil war the english apparently had, I think I’d never heard of it.
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Nov 28, 2021 15:46
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Milton was no Dante. *snobbishly clicks Post*
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Nov 28, 2021 19:26
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Mr. Nemo posted:Now I guess I should read about the civil war the english apparently had, I think I’d never heard of it. 
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Nov 28, 2021 20:01
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Sham bam bamina! posted:I know American education is a joke, but this is really something. What? I'm not american. Not sure if you are british or american, but please, don't overestimate how relevant that kind of event is to the rest of the world. Edit: some quick reading tells me that it was about how the english king should rule. Why would other countries teach it? mdemone posted:Milton was no Dante. I do have the divine comedy coming up next. Mr. Nemo fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Nov 28, 2021 |
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Nov 28, 2021 20:03
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