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ToxicFrog posted:I must say that when I decided to catch up on the SFF thread I wasn't expecting to find multiple people arguing, apparently in complete earnest, that only trad-pub works from big publishers should be discussed ITT, because self-pub and stuff from smaller publishing houses just isn't up to the literary standards of the genre that brought us Homer Adam's Balls, John Ringo, and whatever the gently caress Neal Stephenson just did. I don't care much about the quality of their books; self-published authors and their fans are just unbearable posters. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) thotsky fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Nov 19, 2021 |
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Nov 19, 2021 16:20
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thotsky posted:I don't care much about the quality of their books; self-published authors and their fans are just unbearable posters. Counterpoint: Established editors like Patrick Nielsen Hayden can be just as unbearable posters, with the caveat of them using their power of editors to punch down and erase their posting enemies careers. PNH was an unbearable godawful poster in the SF-LOVERS mailing list during the late 1980's-1990's readthrough I finished earlier this year, and me finding out PNH wasn't fired for his antics back then but instead promoted multiple times at TOR BOOKS to the highest level is the other reason I stopped reading modern SF&F for a few months now. Offtopic: Discovered that multiple people have donated James E. Gunn's KAMPUS to the internet archives open library project, which is cool because KAMPUS is never getting a real official ebook re-release edition. Start basking in the batshit insanity of KAMPUS. https://archive.org/details/kampusnovel00gunn/page/n7/mode/2up pg 52-53 of KAMPUS quote:... context of the quoted material: College students in the far-off year of 1984 have kidnapped their favorite college professor to grok the Professor's knowledge and accumulated wisdom. Yes, that was a Robert Heinlein/Stranger in a Strange Land reference. However the Professor died during the kidnapping and now the college students escalated from merely stealing the Professor's blood to grokking away on the Professor's brain thanks to a blender and straws.
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Nov 19, 2021 17:59
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Publishing is full of terrible posters (someone at Tor is a prolific Kiwifarms contributor and not shy about dropping hints to their irl identity) but that’s no reason to ignore every book published since 1990. The bad posters don’t (usually) write the books (except in my case ho ho ho  )
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Nov 19, 2021 18:03
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quantumfoam posted:context of the quoted material: College students in the far-off year of 1984 have kidnapped their favorite college professor to grok the Professor's knowledge and accumulated wisdom. Yes, that was a Robert Heinlein/Stranger in a Strange Land reference. However the Professor died during the kidnapping and now the college students escalated from merely stealing the Professor's blood to grokking away on the Professor's brain thanks to a blender and straws. Polytron adverts have gotten real weird.
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Nov 19, 2021 18:09
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General Battuta posted:Publishing is full of terrible posters (someone at Tor is a prolific Kiwifarms contributor and not shy about dropping hints to their irl identity) What the gently caress, who?
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Nov 19, 2021 18:12
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Cicero posted:Yes, but the most obvious self pub failures aren't gonna get brought up here anyway. found my gimmick
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Nov 19, 2021 18:28
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Cicero posted:Yes, but the most obvious self pub failures aren't gonna get brought up here anyway. I mean, some people here do enjoy reading just absolutely awful dreck because it's awful. Honestly, as long as it keeps discussions going I'm happy. The bigger issue from my POV is that if one subtopic is generating too much discussion then it needs to be split off into a separate thread so the two discussions don't get in each other's way. Lately this means (I think) that we probably need to split off a lot of self-published chat into a differnet thread, but it's case by case and book by book really. I just don't want a five page discussion of web-published cultivation litrpgs to prevent people looking for mainstream book recommendations from finding books they'd be interested in.
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Nov 19, 2021 18:34
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Wait. You want to make a generally slow thread even slower?
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Nov 19, 2021 18:42
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StrixNebulosa posted:generally slow Hey 
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Nov 19, 2021 18:51
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Consistently, the only discussion that self-published books generate in enough volume to drown out other content is posts saying "I don't want self-published books to drown out other content." e: There's a dedicated thread for The Locked Tomb but that doesn't stop people from doing a page or two of Harrowchat when it's relevant, and That's Okay.
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Nov 19, 2021 18:53
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I mean, some people here do enjoy reading just absolutely awful dreck because it's awful. it means we need to split off the meta chat into a separate thread tbh. one thread for posting about SFF books and also a (far more active) thread for complaining that the posts are bad
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Nov 19, 2021 18:57
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Groke posted:I remember being a teenage gaming nerd during that timeframe and yeah, there was a certain culture for thinking that trenchcoats and katanas etc. were unironically cool. that stuff is still cool dude. it's not even exclusive to nerds
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Nov 19, 2021 19:01
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I mean, some people here do enjoy reading just absolutely awful dreck because it's awful. I like book How dare you even mention book here What, chill out dude No, get the gently caress out This is totally different from any of the other author or genre specific threads. No one's gonna flip if someone brings up an urban fantasy novel or something new by Sanderson, or the newest Locked Tomb, as long as the actual discussion of that book doesn't drag on. The thinking seems to be, certain formats/genres/lack of publisher are so categorically awful that they should not be briefly discussed or even mentioned here, that any amount of discussion of any title in those categories taints the thread, and is worthy of being shouted down or out. And obviously some other posters like myself object to that, that feel that at least some of those titles have some merit, so you end up with a meta slap fight that dwarfs any real book discussion. Nomnom Cookie posted:it means we need to split off the meta chat into a separate thread tbh. one thread for posting about SFF books and also a (far more active) thread for complaining that the posts are bad Cicero fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Nov 19, 2021 |
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Nov 19, 2021 19:03
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miyamoto musashi was far cooler than any of us can ever hope to be and that's fine. swords are cool. trenchcoats were cool until the matrix came out and now they are for nerds. nerds are not cool, sadly
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Nov 19, 2021 19:05
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Finished THE NINTH RAIN which opens as a strong dark fantasy, and then spends a lot of time just not being very interesting. What's funny is that it features a bog-standard gender essentialist magic system, where only ladies can use WINNOWFIRE. Presumably an editor said something, as there's a deeply half-assed bit halfway through about 'oh uh and there's this... legend about a guy transitioning and then using winnowfire like CRAZY.'
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Nov 19, 2021 19:08
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I’m fine with self pub talk as long as I am allowed to call terrible writing terrible the same way I would with trad pub books, games, etc.
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Nov 19, 2021 19:12
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General Battuta posted:I’m fine with self pub talk as long as I am allowed to call terrible writing terrible the same way I would with trad pub books, games, etc.
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Nov 19, 2021 19:15
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Lately this means (I think) that we probably need to split off a lot of self-published chat into a differnet thread, but it's case by case and book by book really. I just don't want a five page discussion of web-published cultivation litrpgs to prevent people looking for mainstream book recommendations from finding books they'd be interested in.
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Nov 19, 2021 19:23
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I'm not surprised that people are annoyed by webnovel posting after the guy who signed up to shill his crab book a few months back.
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Nov 19, 2021 19:25
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There's also publishers that you probably couldn't call traditional publishers, but don't amount to self publishing either. Edit: \/\/\/ hell yes Cicero fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Nov 19, 2021 |
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Nov 19, 2021 19:25
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I have no problem with quickly spinning up a new SFF discussion thread dedicated to meta-chat, however the meta-commentary thread title & OP of that thread if I do it will be full of randomized capitalized letters and apostrophes because apparently that was quietly driving some former SA mods mad. for example: SF&F MetaCommentary Thread Apostrophe Complaint Exclamation Zone. Wel'come to the Meta commentary thread for Bitch'ing about posts and books you hate and various loathsome book genres YOU CanNOT stand to see discussed in the main SF&F megathread. thread rules -what is Terrible posted in the main SF&F thread can be discussed here. -what is good posts can be discussed. -why certain literary genres are terrible can be discussed here. -why certain literary genres are good can be discussed here. -what is inside processed ch'eeses cannot be discussed. -feel free to flame away inside but expect probations or worse if you get too personal or overheated.
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Nov 19, 2021 19:27
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god we don't need a drama thread for the SF&F megathread, just go back to talking about books and if someone rarely posts a self pub book they think is good, then look at the self pub book and if you think the self pub book real looks like poo poo you can maybe post "That kind of looks like poo poo"!!! (disclaimer im a gbs mod, not tbb, this is my Personal Opinion) 50% through Commonweal 1 now and there has been some more interesting magic that wasn't strictly artillery. getting there 
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Nov 19, 2021 19:36
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Nomnom Cookie posted:miyamoto musashi was far cooler than any of us can ever hope to be and that's fine. swords are cool. trenchcoats were cool until the matrix came out and now they are for nerds. nerds are not cool, sadly Trenchcoats were for nerds long before the Matrix came out and codified that. It's like you never met a goth in the 90s.
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Nov 19, 2021 19:46
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a book is just a very long post
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Nov 19, 2021 19:55
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PeterWeller posted:Trenchcoats were for nerds long before the Matrix came out and codified that. It's like you never met a goth in the 90s. well, considering i was a toddler. no, i didn't.
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Nov 19, 2021 20:02
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freebooter posted:What do Snow Crash and Catcher in the Rye have in common? Best to read them when you're a teenager I thought that was the case in all readings regardless of age re:catcher? In topic of Scifi, is there a good longer series like Cherryh's Foreigner series? It's too soon to do a restart but I crave something similar.
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Nov 19, 2021 20:24
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Aardvark! posted:50% through Commonweal 1 now and there has been some more interesting magic that wasn't strictly artillery. getting there I'm glad you stuck with it. There's some truly weird magic in that series in between artillery and discussions of public works projects.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:24
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Book mail finally, finally arrived!
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Nov 19, 2021 21:34
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Reading through To Light the Lightning again and I forgot how much of this is trying to figure out what's society and what's Mycroft being weird.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:39
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Cerepol posted:In topic of Scifi, is there a good longer series like Cherryh's Foreigner series? It's too soon to do a restart but I crave something similar. Which parts in particular? And have you read her Fortress series? It’s Fantasy, but it is has a very heavy focus on politics and the primary pov character finds the world so alien he might as well be from another planet! It’s slow af though.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:39
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A Carly Rae Jihad posted:Which parts in particular? And have you read her Fortress series? It’s Fantasy, but it is has a very heavy focus on politics and the primary pov character finds the world so alien he might as well be from another planet! It's actually really weird to read Fortress back to back with Foreigner as so much of it is a prototype for Foreigner.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:40
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Sibling of TB posted:Reading through To Light the Lightning again and I forgot how much of this is trying to figure out what's society and what's Mycroft being weird. It’s so good. I never read the third or fourth book so I might restart the series soon. Tbh I don’t think Mycroft ever really lies to you? The biggest “misleading” thing he does is assign gender based on peoples vibes (which rules)
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Nov 19, 2021 21:44
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StrixNebulosa posted:It's actually really weird to read Fortress back to back with Foreigner as so much of it is a prototype for Foreigner. Oh poo poo, did fortress come out first?
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Nov 19, 2021 21:44
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A Carly Rae Jihad posted:Which parts in particular? And have you read her Fortress series? It’s Fantasy, but it is has a very heavy focus on politics and the primary pov character finds the world so alien he might as well be from another planet! I think it's the primary focus on the alien culture with the followthru on how it actually does create differences + the serialized oh no The Padhi got into a real mess this time how's he gonna wiggle out? Also the Aiji-Dowager owns. I have not read the Fortress series yet but I haven't read much fantasy lately. I am enjoying The Black Company series but haven't quite puzzled out what about it that is keeping me more intrigued than fantasy usually does.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:46
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A Carly Rae Jihad posted:Oh poo poo, did fortress come out first? Foreigner (1994) – Locus SF Award nominee, 1995[15] Fortress in the Eye of Time (1995) – Locus Fantasy Award nominee, 1996[16]  I remembered that wrong! BUT - and I will stand by this - I feel like both series share some of the same dynamics when it comes to leadership and trying to make a lot of powerful people do what you want. e: Especially in Fortress of Eagles (1998), which I feel got a lot from Invader (1995) and Inheritor (1996).
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Nov 19, 2021 21:46
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Cerepol posted:I thought that was the case in all readings regardless of age re:catcher? I read Foreigner because I was craving more of Bujold's Vorkosigan Saga, so that's my recommendation. Start with Shards of Honor
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Nov 19, 2021 21:46
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A Carly Rae Jihad posted:It’s so good. I never read the third or fourth book so I might restart the series soon. The thing I had in mind was the stuff about pretending you can't understand the language you don't identify as as your primary spoken language. It's plausible to me that society has that as a norm but I really can't tell if anyone else thinks that. Other thing I'm finding again, going through their remembrance day stuff, is that their society and world sound so much better than what we have now. Oh my god I want to live there except for all the garbage that happens after.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:49
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Aardvark! posted:I read Foreigner because I was craving more of Bujold's Vorkosigan Saga, so that's my recommendation. Start with Shards of Honor A great recommendation! Unfortunately I also devoured that one in the last year or so. They both are just a joy to read. Though I went the other way, I had finished Foreigner and went to Vorkosigan for more
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Nov 19, 2021 21:58
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Cerepol posted:I think it's the primary focus on the alien culture with the followthru on how it actually does create differences + the serialized oh no The Padhi got into a real mess this time how's he gonna wiggle out? Ok so like here’s my off the cuff hot take on Cherryh and why you should give the Fortress books a shot: Cherryh writes hard SF except instead of counting rivets she sets up societies and tries to observe them. But the thing that makes her actually good is how she combines her anthropological rivet-counting with really strong interpersonal relationships and drama. So if that sounds sort of correct to you, then imo you should read (at the least the first of) the Fortress books. Or her Faded Suns trilogy. It think it’s my favorite Cherryh series.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:59
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A Carly Rae Jihad posted:Ok so like here’s my off the cuff hot take on Cherryh and why you should give the Fortress books a shot: Cherryh writes hard SF except instead of counting rivets she sets up societies and tries to observe them. But the thing that makes her actually good is how she combines her anthropological rivet-counting with really strong interpersonal relationships and drama. So if that sounds sort of correct to you, then imo you should read (at the least the first of) the Fortress books. It's a good pitch, I did really like The Faded Suns trilogy as well and shouldn't let the genre label hold me back because I've become disillusioned by other authors.
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Nov 19, 2021 22:01
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