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Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story

Snow Cone Capone posted:

I actually got a fair amount of mileage out of Geomancer, Gaia has some solid attacks right when you get the job, and it's IIRC a decent magic stat bonus for a very quick to master job.

Unfortunately Geomancer has no way to give those stat bonuses to other jobs, none of the abilities it learns boost stats. You can boost Freelancer's magic of course but as someone else said, you probably don't want to be using Freelancers so early in the game when you should be gaining JP instead.

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Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


Twelve by Pies posted:

Unfortunately Geomancer has no way to give those stat bonuses to other jobs, none of the abilities it learns boost stats. You can boost Freelancer's magic of course but as someone else said, you probably don't want to be using Freelancers so early in the game when you should be gaining JP instead.

Yeah I meant the decent Freelancer bonus if you're lazy or something and can't just bang out Summoner in Bal Castle

Mandoric
Mar 15, 2003

Twelve by Pies posted:

Unfortunately Geomancer has no way to give those stat bonuses to other jobs, none of the abilities it learns boost stats. You can boost Freelancer's magic of course but as someone else said, you probably don't want to be using Freelancers so early in the game when you should be gaining JP instead.

The deal with Geomancer is that you can put offensive magic on it and have a backup for if the background has bad !Gaia, or put it !Gaia on an offensive mage and have resourceless -ra.5 casts (often of hard-to-access easy-to-boost elements, there's a big window in the second half of world 2 where everything comes up wind skills just as you get cheap vendor Air Knives and level into reliable Wind Slash) for normal fights.

I'm on a 4JF with it/Time Mage/WHM/DNC right now (need to grind my rear end off to reliably survive Almagest basically), and I basically used nothing but !Gaia and the occasional heal between the Lonka Ruins and the Pyramid. Sadly, once you hit the pyramid, it just can't keep up with rising HP totals and if you're stuck with a Geomancer they become some other mage with forced Equip Pajamas in the ability slot.

Lotus Aura
Aug 16, 2009

KNEEL BEFORE THE WICKED KING!
The important thing to remember about !Gaia though is that, despite everything else about it...

Big Mouth Billy Basshole
Jun 18, 2007

Fun Shoe

Lotus Aura posted:

The important thing to remember about !Gaia though is that, despite everything else about it...



Yeah I was confused why I was running into an enemy that would one shot my magic team in the tower, until I realized I had gaia as a secondary on my one mage.

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story
After using Fran for a good while with crossbows I can safely say: crossbows loving suck. Their accuracy is abysmal, she misses like 70% of the goddamn time. Unfortunately since her other job is Foebreaker, if she equips an axe/hammer (or bomb) she just does poo poo damage and it's just as bad as missing! I think Fran's just gonna stay on the bench for the rest of this playthrough.

I'm coming up on the Hunt Club quest and now I gotta figure out who to give the trophies to. Everyone seems to be big on 5/5/20 for Genji Gloves and Ribbon, but I dunno. I know it's the only way outside Trial Mode to get a second pair of Genji Gloves, and Ribbons are great, but I kind of want to go 10/10/10 for the Zodiac equipment. Especially since I don't have any desire to try and manipulate RNG for a Zodiac Spear in the mines (I don't even know if there's an RNG manipulation guide for the Switch anyway, I know that the original game had massively different charts for the RNG seeds depending on which PS2 model you had).

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

Twelve by Pies posted:

After using Fran for a good while with crossbows I can safely say: crossbows loving suck. Their accuracy is abysmal, she misses like 70% of the goddamn time. Unfortunately since her other job is Foebreaker, if she equips an axe/hammer (or bomb) she just does poo poo damage and it's just as bad as missing! I think Fran's just gonna stay on the bench for the rest of this playthrough.

I'm coming up on the Hunt Club quest and now I gotta figure out who to give the trophies to. Everyone seems to be big on 5/5/20 for Genji Gloves and Ribbon, but I dunno. I know it's the only way outside Trial Mode to get a second pair of Genji Gloves, and Ribbons are great, but I kind of want to go 10/10/10 for the Zodiac equipment. Especially since I don't have any desire to try and manipulate RNG for a Zodiac Spear in the mines (I don't even know if there's an RNG manipulation guide for the Switch anyway, I know that the original game had massively different charts for the RNG seeds depending on which PS2 model you had).

Maybe I'm just lucky but I've got Fran with crossbows myself and she's more accurate than Basch with Axes and with the right bolts is just loving over enemies with status effects.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

In the unmodded game crossbows just get really messed up by weather conditions. It’s extra unfortunate in IZJS when Time Mage has nothing else to fall back on.

Harrow fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Nov 28, 2021

Mandoric
Mar 15, 2003
wait i don't need to grind for almagest if i get Wonder Rod in the Break position

:getin:

Other weird interaction which might be PR or might be shared across all versions: if you almost trigger Exdeath, say hi to (grand)dad(s), etc, and then walk all the way out, a cutscene about time rewinding in the Rift plays as you touch the wheel of the airship, and the hype cutscenes before the fight play again when you walk all the way back in. If you walk out to the rift castle and then cast Exit, you can just run straight back in and jump into the tree face.

e: Wonder Rod Break sucks, but just alpha striking the poo poo out of the Almagest part with Hastega-3x Holy did the trick along with a little good Grand Cross luck (went from multi-multizombies in my first run to... single-target Frog, and single-target Berserk after two parts were already down.)
Now for a third playthrough that gets to autoattack.

Mandoric fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Nov 28, 2021

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story
After looking around it seems like RNG manipulation in the Switch version of TZA is pretty unreliable, it's not impossible but people say it takes them four or five tries before they can guarantee a rare chest. So that kinda seals it for me, looks like the best way to go for the Hunt Club is 10/10/10. I don't feel like I need a second Genji Gloves, and there's two guaranteed Ribbon chests in game that have low but not ridiculously low odds (15 and 10 percent chances), and if I ever want a third one I can just steal one from Hashmal in Trial Mode.

Shabadu
Jul 18, 2003

rain dance


hmmmm, i'm on BLU/TIM/BST/SUM for my pixel remaster fiesta and i think the only way i can get l2 old and l3 flare is with the wonder wand primed for reflect? I can't seem to control either the red dragons or level trickers in barrier tower to cast on my party

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story
The Wonder Wand isn't until Fork Tower in world 3. You're correct though that even controlling the enemies, you can't cast those spells on your party, you'd have to put reflect on the enemies, so you can't actually learn them in the Barrier Tower with your party.

You can get Level 3 Flare from the Pyramid though at least, there's an enemy called Zephyrus that summons other monsters to fight for her, if she summons one called Tunneller, it can cast Level 3 Flare on you, no reflect needed. I'm not sure where else you can get Level 2 Old though, I rarely ever use it and usually don't bother to get it in a Fiesta.

Mandoric
Mar 15, 2003
Plenty of future chances for L2 Old - Middle floors of Exdeath's Castle, off a mob that also appears in the Rift and the Sunken Tower, or off the level-magic mobs in either the Island Shrine or the Rift ruins.

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We sholde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?
Nap Ghost
What does Old do and is it useful on any enemies? Whenever enemies hit me with it it didn't matter and I ignored it and killed everything anyway.

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

Elephant Ambush posted:

What does Old do and is it useful on any enemies? Whenever enemies hit me with it it didn't matter and I ignored it and killed everything anyway.

quote:

When Old is used on a player character, all of that character's stats, except their level, will gradually decrease to 1. When used on an enemy, that enemy's level and speed are gradually decreased to 1, which in turn affects that enemy's Magic Attack multiplier.

It's very good on things it can hit.

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story
One important thing to note about Old: it can be cured with Esuna, but curing it won't restore your stat loss. And if you're good at putting out big damage numbers, then yeah, Old isn't usually a problem. The one fight where Old is usually a major issue is Soul Cannon. The Launches will inflict Old with their missiles, if you don't have any lightning skills or weapons to take Soul Cannon out quick, you'll see your damage drop pretty significantly over the course of the fight.

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We sholde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?
Nap Ghost

Twelve by Pies posted:

One important thing to note about Old: it can be cured with Esuna, but curing it won't restore your stat loss. And if you're good at putting out big damage numbers, then yeah, Old isn't usually a problem. The one fight where Old is usually a major issue is Soul Cannon. The Launches will inflict Old with their missiles, if you don't have any lightning skills or weapons to take Soul Cannon out quick, you'll see your damage drop pretty significantly over the course of the fight.

I completely crushed this fight in my playthrough because I've played FFRK for almost 5 years and I know that summons stomp it into the ground so that's what I did and it worked.

Thanks FFRK!

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Twelve by Pies posted:

One important thing to note about Old: it can be cured with Esuna, but curing it won't restore your stat loss. And if you're good at putting out big damage numbers, then yeah, Old isn't usually a problem. The one fight where Old is usually a major issue is Soul Cannon. The Launches will inflict Old with their missiles, if you don't have any lightning skills or weapons to take Soul Cannon out quick, you'll see your damage drop pretty significantly over the course of the fight.

Let me tell you about how money solves literally all your problems in ffv...

Edit: Thats the boss that taught me samurais were extremely good

Mandoric
Mar 15, 2003
More to you than to them.

On PCs, Old reduces stats but not level. Stats govern basically everything;
* Determining PC attack multiplier for any variable but not random damage attack (essentially number of hits in the FF1-4 sense, but either all hit or all miss): most weapons are 2 + ((STR*LV)/128), daggers 2 + ((STR*LV)/128) + (((AGI*LV)%256)/128), fists a flat 2 without Barehanded or 2 + (STR*LV)/256 with, Chicken Knife 2 + ((STR*LV)/128) + ((AGI*LV)/128), bells ((LV*MAG)/128)+((LV*AGI)/128), rods 2 + ((MAG*LV)/256), directly health-impacting magic is 4 + ((MAG*LV)/256).
* Regen recovery is (VIT*LV)/16.
* Starting position on ATB bar is 255 - ((120 - AGI + (Weight/8)), minimum 1) ticks. Commands can be entered at 255. (Or, conceptualized with the new display, length of an ATB bar is 135 - AGI + (Weight/8) ticks.)

On monsters, Old reduces AGI (used only for ATB bar) and level but not other stats.
* Directly health-impacting magic is still 4 + ((MAG*LV)/256).
* Goblin Punch procs as a normal attack other than using the throw attack power (so very bad with Chicken Knife, good with Excalipoor and Brave Blade even if you've run a lot), but ignores enemy defense and multiplies attack power by 8 if levels are the same.
* Determining spell hit% (but not evade% on the separate roll): hit% = base hit% + caster level - target level, and must be under a d100 roll or misses. Base hit% for status magic is typically 75%, so being at least 25 levels up is a sure hit and being 75 levels down (from the player side, inflictable by hypergrinding + Old) is a sure miss.
* Length of hidden "ATB bar" is 135 - AGI ticks.

So essentially, inflicting Old is for better proc rates on status magic (usually ignorable, !Spellblade procs if the hit lands), worse proc rates on their status magic (but NED is the only one who really matters), adding a stacking slow and magic damage down to enemies which aren't immune (no one is immune with Dark Shock + L2 Old which ignores immunity), and most notably as a source of damage for hyper-low-level challenges (Goblin Punch should always hit for 2400 with Excalipoor, or 3600 with Brave Blade, when cast by a level 1 character on an enemy on which Old has ticked down all the way.)
(There is a minimum of 18 forced experience for Butz, 33 for Faris, 24 for the battle to learn Goblin Punch, and 40 each from Iron Claw and e: it's late SOME part of the Sol Cannon sequence; it's extremely difficult to distribute this in a way that leaves two characters at 1, and brings Butz to 3, without bringing Faris to 4, and L2 Old can then be learned without gaining EXP from either Azulmagia or finishing all monsters in a random battle with !Catch.)

Mandoric fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Nov 28, 2021

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story

Elephant Ambush posted:

I completely crushed this fight in my playthrough because I've played FFRK for almost 5 years and I know that summons stomp it into the ground so that's what I did and it worked.

Thanks FFRK!

Yeah if you have Summoner/Black, or any job that can break rods (Red/Blue/Time) Soul Cannon is little more than a speed bump. On the other hand if you're rolling with Knight/Zerk/Geo or something, you're gonna have a bad time, and Old is gonna gently caress you up in that fight.

Mega64
May 23, 2008

I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.
I once got L3 Flare at Barrier Tower by having a Beastmaster Release an enemy with Reflect onto an ally with a Reflect Ring, thus bouncing the Reflect onto the Red Dragon and thus letting me bounce the L3 Flare onto the party.

It took a lot of time and effort and in the end it did less damage to Exdeath than bouncing Aeroga off my Reflected party, so it's definitely not worth it and it's much better just to wait until W3 to get it.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

Lightning Scrolls are excellent for that fight and if you’re not leveling a ninja to get dual wielding on at least one character from the moment it’s unlocked, I don’t know what to say.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

!Throw on a summoner with an appropriate rod equipped will do absurd damage to Soul Cannon, and also carry you through all of World 2. Scrolls have better attack power than any summon until Syldra.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

Scrolls are stupid cheap too. Like 200 gil and they defeat basically every single non-boss fight until probably World 3.

nrook
Jun 25, 2009

Just let yourself become a worthless person!
On GBA I think L2 Old is worth having just for World 2 Exdeath. Unfortunately I’ve heard this no longer works in the pixel remaster, and if I remember correctly an unfortunate player discovered during the fiesta this year that on SNES this causes a horrible underflow bug and makes Exdeath oneshot you.

Good on GBA though.

Electromax
May 6, 2007
They need to put Old in FF7R-2 with super realistic aging-to-death progression for every party member.

Speaking of pixels, they are all just as handsome as i remember.
https://twitter.com/vgcartography/status/1465023877453594639?s=20

zenguitarman
Apr 6, 2009

Come on, lemme see ya shake your tail feather


Electromax posted:

They need to put Old in FF7R-2 with super realistic aging-to-death progression for every party member.

Speaking of pixels, they are all just as handsome as i remember.
https://twitter.com/vgcartography/status/1465023877453594639?s=20

Holy nostalgia, Batman

your posts are awesome btw!

Edit: Hell yeah, Colony Wars represent

zenguitarman fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Nov 28, 2021

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!
please look forward to my new NFT series: blurry pictures of Legend of Dragoon characters

Electromax
May 6, 2007
To get that Dagger image, i had a save file at the 40 minute mark so I let the emu run for 20 mins. But i forgot untli the last 10 seconds, quickly tabbed over and made a save state at xx:59:51 seconds. But talking to moogle was so slow, i couldn't save fast enough to beat xx:00:01 until I switched in an empty memory card - the .2 second speed increase in rendering save slot list was just enough to get the save at 00:00 and see the pic. So basically it was an optimized speedrun, from my save state, to dagger save pic [WR].

Super No Vacancy
Jul 26, 2012

https://twitter.com/auuo/status/1464874485304094726?s=21

Nihilarian
Oct 2, 2013


Blockhouse posted:

please look forward to my new NFT series: blurry pictures of Legend of Dragoon characters
You will NOT tempt me to buy an NFT

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Electromax posted:

They need to put Old in FF7R-2 with super realistic aging-to-death progression for every party member.

Speaking of pixels, they are all just as handsome as i remember.
https://twitter.com/vgcartography/status/1465023877453594639?s=20

Who's the last face on the FF7 row? Is it Sephiroth? Because it looks like a woman wearing a bonnet lol

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Years ago, in Final Fantasy V on GBA, fighting Exdeath at the end of World 2, Bartz was level 33, and Exdeath is level 66. I managed to land Dark Spark on him to halve his level, then equipped Excalipoor, which of course had just recently dropped from Gilgamesh, and used Goblin Punch on Exdeath for 9999 damage.

HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.

Toilet Rascal
Blue Mages are good, yes.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

I am incredibly upset that goblin punch doesn’t work with excalipoor anymore

This just womps

thetoughestbean
Apr 27, 2013

Keep On Shroomin

jokes posted:

I am incredibly upset that goblin punch doesn’t work with excalipoor anymore

This just womps

Boo! Boooooo!

Randallteal
May 7, 2006

The tears of time
Thank You But No to: boss fights where the boss' parts all have to be destroyed at the same time or they regenerate, boss battles where the boss can only be damaged by a cycling elemental weakness

pretty soft girl
Oct 1, 2004

my dead grandfather fights better than you

Randallteal posted:

Thank You But No to: boss fights where the boss' parts all have to be destroyed at the same time or they regenerate

There are some fights in 14 like this and if you thought this was bad in a game where you control all of your party members imagine trying to get a group of illiterate teenagers to comply with the instruction of "STOP KILLING THEM THEY NEED TO ALL DIE AT THE SAME TIME WE'VE BEEN AT THIS FOR HALF AN HOUR"

Mr. Locke
Jul 28, 2010

pretty soft girl posted:

There are some fights in 14 like this and if you thought this was bad in a game where you control all of your party members imagine trying to get a group of illiterate teenagers to comply with the instruction of "STOP KILLING THEM THEY NEED TO ALL DIE AT THE SAME TIME WE'VE BEEN AT THIS FOR HALF AN HOUR"

Counterpoint: This Never Happens. If you get a group heavily of new people, it might cause a wipe once, then someone will explain the mechanic in Team/Alliance/Shout and the next time it'll clear. Usually someone explains it beforehand and if it doesn't clear first run, it's usually not to the death mechanic.

Like, I've run plenty of Castrum Lacus Licore in the last month to squeeze out a Resistance Weapon before expansion, which has one of the single hardest to coordinate versions of this in the game since it's two entirely separate fights that need to be beaten within a very short time of each other, and I've seen it fail once because of this mechanic- an entire group on the bottom floor was a bunch of friends doing their first even run and missed the calls in Shout to slow damage. It cleared the next attempt.

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ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

Mr. Locke posted:

Counterpoint: This Never Happens. If you get a group heavily of new people, it might cause a wipe once, then someone will explain the mechanic in Team/Alliance/Shout and the next time it'll clear. Usually someone explains it beforehand and if it doesn't clear first run, it's usually not to the death mechanic.

Like, I've run plenty of Castrum Lacus Licore in the last month to squeeze out a Resistance Weapon before expansion, which has one of the single hardest to coordinate versions of this in the game since it's two entirely separate fights that need to be beaten within a very short time of each other, and I've seen it fail once because of this mechanic- an entire group on the bottom floor was a bunch of friends doing their first even run and missed the calls in Shout to slow damage. It cleared the next attempt.

Theres one guild hest that needs it but no one every runs the last two guildhests so

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