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HelloIAmYourHeart posted:When I get the Real Electrician (tm) in I will be sure to ask.  StormDrain posted:Thats still not right. He's drawn a short circuit, where flipping the switch just connects hot to neutral. To my untrained eyes, assuming the leads-to-nowhere actually go nowhere, the circuit never* shorts. When the switches complete the circuit, it always leaves through the neutral on the plug. If there's nothing there to complete the circuit, the switches don't do anything. Unless you intentionally bridge the socket with no load, it won't short, hence why it needs a lamp plugged in and turned on to light the porch light. Everything in the 'box' on the diagram is just a bunch of elaborately tangled hots. Assuming the porch light is static and always a complete circuit... Close switch A or B and the wall outlet energizes. If switch B is closed and a load exists at C, the porch light comes on. The state of switch A doesn't matter in this scenario, since the hot of circuit A and B is connected to C. If switch A is closed but B is open, only the wall outlet is energized. I might be misunderstanding AC (I did manage to flunk my highschool electronics course and short a one way switch during my first ever attempt at AC wiring  ), but I'm not seeing the short.* "never" is of course predicated on the wall outlet being wired correctly and no one intentionally bridging the hot and neutral at that point to create a short.
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Nov 30, 2021 12:15
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I just hope the electrician doesn’t just rip everything out and start from scratch without solving the mystery 
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Nov 30, 2021 17:28
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tomapot posted:I just hope the electrician doesn’t just rip everything out and start from scratch without solving the mystery If I was an electrician and I saw that circuit diagram, I'd want to document it for my fellow electricians.
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Nov 30, 2021 17:45
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I don't want to pay the guy to figure it out, just get it fixed.
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Nov 30, 2021 17:53
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GreenNight posted:I don't want to pay the guy to figure it out, just get it fixed. That's a monkeys paw situation. He fixed that one but now two more don't work in even more annoying ways.
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Nov 30, 2021 18:01
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I'm willing to bet you wouldn't be the only one to foot the bill if the electrician wants to charge extra to answer the question. More importantly, actually understanding what's going on there might affect your understanding of other areas of the house's wiring, especially since there're some mystery cables
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Nov 30, 2021 18:02
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goon crowdfunded 
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Nov 30, 2021 20:04
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y'all are talkin about a bounty 
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Nov 30, 2021 22:54
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Bountyshunters
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Nov 30, 2021 22:56
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DR FRASIER KRANG posted:Bountyshunters Crappy construction: Bountyshunters
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Dec 1, 2021 00:41
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If any of you are in Kansas City, you're welcome to come take a look yourself. I will be sure to ask the electrician to at least LOOK at the diagram and see if they think it's accurate. edit: should I post this in the electrical thread? Or will it just drive everyone insane.
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Dec 1, 2021 01:52
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HelloIAmYourHeart posted:If any of you are in Kansas City, you're welcome to come take a look yourself. Oh of course that poo poo is in MO. I swear to Christ there was something happening in Missouri for a few decades in the mid 20th century that lead to all the electrical contractors pulling stupid poo poo like this.
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Dec 1, 2021 02:01
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I have a house in Missouri built in the 1920's. Nice place but the electricity needs to be modernized. It's bad enough that the walls can't be insulated because that would be a fire hazard. My mom's house was built in the 50's and the wood used on the exterior wall was never cured properly. Until we finally went with siding there was a three year routine of paint & peel.
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Dec 1, 2021 04:28
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Darth Brooks posted:It's bad enough that the walls can't be insulated because that would be a fire hazard. That doesn't sound like a thing. Can you explain?
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Dec 1, 2021 04:31
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yeah fiberglass like dow corning or whatever is actually fire retardant isn't it? same with the treated ceiling blow-in.
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Dec 1, 2021 04:33
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It's actually the opposite. The biggest hazard to old houses from insulation is holding moisture near the wood.
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Dec 1, 2021 04:50
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Danhenge posted:It's actually the opposite. The biggest hazard to old houses from insulation is holding moisture near the wood. That's what a vapor barrier is for. This is not some kind of new problem that hasn't been solved for decades now.
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Dec 1, 2021 04:52
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Dec 1, 2021 05:20
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Motronic posted:That doesn't sound like a thing. Can you explain? I don't know what that guy has going on, but we could not insulate our attic until we removed all the knob and tube wiring - by code here you aren't allowed to have insulation in contact with it. If I understood correctly it's because K&T was built assuming the airspace around it for cooling and if you cover it up then it can overheat? I didn't really dig into it, just that everyone involved was real firm about it.
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Dec 1, 2021 06:01
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HelloIAmYourHeart posted:If any of you are in Kansas City, you're welcome to come take a look yourself. 👀 i can do the needful
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Dec 1, 2021 06:56
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Interesting story I just heard today about a guy who tried to cheap out and do a job himself. Around this time last year my contracting partner and I got a call to go to a guy's seasonal cottage to install some hardwood flooring. We show up to the job, get the key where he left it and go inside. The place is an approx 1100 sq foot cottage with pine flooring in every room. The garage had a massive lift of locally cut ash flooring bundled up to be installed. We call him up and ask what exactly he wants us to do. He says that the place was built with 1/2" OSB installed on the floor joists and 1" pine on top of that, nailed into the joists every 16". He wants the new hardwood installed over top of the pine. We look around some more and call up a few other crews to get advice. We call him back and tell him that the flooring should ideally be installed perpendicular to the pine, and since the joists will be running the wrong way, that we have to add material (14" 2x4 chunks) underneath the flooring between the joists to nail the new flooring into. Also we have to predrill oversized holes through the pine to accommodate for expansion, nail into the staggered 2x4s under the floor, and that there will be a hell of a lot of cutting since the exterior walls are rough logs and there are stairs, doorways, and other things to cut around. Also, since this is the winter and the weather is drier than the summer, we're going to have to bring in all the ash, heat the cabin, run a humidifier, and stack it so it can acclimatize to the cabin as if it were summer, so that it swells a little before installing, to prevent pinching, tenting, and expansion into built-in objects (cabinet bottoms, stairs, walls, etc). We figure it will take a week for the wood to acclimatize, and another week to install, and the job will take us and our helper (who will probably be laying on his back for most of the time in the 23" crawl space) a week to finish, at a cost of $4500. We mention that should the job take less time (a day or two) we'd be willing to knock off up to $1000. He said that he'd get back to us. . . which he never did. Yesterday my partner was at the hardware store picking up stuff for a job he is working on and ran into on of the contractors we called for advice. I guess the homeowner decided to do it himself, but decided to skip all of our advice. He started by getting a roaring fire going in the cottage, and bringing in the flooring as he was installing it. He didn't see the need to lay the flooring perpendicular to the pine, didn't predrill, and never bothered to attempt to acclimatize the wood. The contractor was called in to assess the situation back in late July. We had a very wet June, and the bone dry hardwood soaked up all the moisture in the air and started to swell. The first thing that happened was a lot of the pine boards underneath being split by the nails going through them being pulled sideways when the ash expanded. Since the homeowner installed the flooring tight against everything, whatever was less solid than the flooring was smashed (kitchen and bathroom cabinets). What was stronger than the flooring (exterior log walls and framed interior walls) caused the flooring around them to lift off the floor, pulling their nails, and pointing up like a tent. I guess a shitload of the ash he installed was ruined from splitting, nails being pulled through the boards, or the tongue and grooves being snapped off when they "tented" off the floor. When the homeowner was complaining that we were giving him an outrageous quote the contractor remarked that he figured we underquoted by at least 2k.
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Dec 1, 2021 08:17
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The traditional way they do that here is by not nailing the floor boards down and having space on the end so the floor can expand and contract, the boards are pegged to keep them together, or you could do a tongue & groove, or a biscuit joiner without glue, or something else. Strong baseboards on the walls hold the boards down. And likewise the boards are installed before having dried completely, then after a few years you usually fit a last piece more tightly since the wood movement by then will have stabilized in the indoor climate. At least in finnish climate. Actual video of the process, nicely retro. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3J5wkJFJzE&t=1209s His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Dec 1, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 09:31
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Dec 1, 2021 09:44
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 Can't decide if I'm Thick Pegging or the Impromptu rear end-to-rear end
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Dec 1, 2021 12:12
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Motronic posted:That's what a vapor barrier is for. This is not some kind of new problem that hasn't been solved for decades now. A lot of old houses only have paint as their vapor barrier, so just cutting a hole in the wall and dropping a bunch of blown in insulation won't cut it.
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Dec 1, 2021 15:30
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Danhenge posted:A lot of old houses only have paint as their vapor barrier, so just cutting a hole in the wall and dropping a bunch of blown in insulation won't cut it. Correct.........yet opening exterior walls (or interior, depends on a lot of factors) to properly insulate and put in a vapor barrier still pays back in a matter of a few years in most climates. This isn't a throw your hands up and go "oh well, can't do anything about it.....old houses, amirite?" situation.
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Dec 1, 2021 15:40
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Motronic posted:Correct.........yet opening exterior walls (or interior, depends on a lot of factors) to properly insulate and put in a vapor barrier still pays back in a matter of a few years in most climates. This isn't a throw your hands up and go "oh well, can't do anything about it.....old houses, amirite?" situation. Sure. I wasn't saying it was impossible, just that the major difficulty is the opposite of fire.
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Dec 1, 2021 16:38
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Danhenge posted:Sure. I wasn't saying it was impossible, just that the major difficulty is the opposite of fire. Oh, right right. I missed that.
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Dec 1, 2021 16:40
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Dec 1, 2021 17:37
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After we moved in here I went to change the light in the living room, and discovered that the fixture was held up with blutack.
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Dec 1, 2021 20:58
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Crystal River Nuclear Plantquote:Plan developer Sargent & Lundy specified that 97 tendons be loosened. Progress rejected that number as excessive. The next proposal was to loosen 74 tendons, which was typical of other nuclear plants doing the procedure. According to a Progress employee, "de-tensioning the tendons is a very expensive and time-consuming effort", so the number was further reduced to 65. Progress engaged Bechtel to provide a 3rd party review, which agreed that 65 was appropriate. However, when the work was performed, only 27 tendons were loosened, and a foreman and supervisor sent emails questioning the way the tendons were loosened. Duke Energy Demolishes Crystal River Power Plant (Although, the concrete has, apparently, been crap since 1977 https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1028/ML102861026.pdf )
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Dec 2, 2021 00:31
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Motronic posted:Correct.........yet opening exterior walls (or interior, depends on a lot of factors) to properly insulate and put in a vapor barrier still pays back in a matter of a few years in most climates. This isn't a throw your hands up and go "oh well, can't do anything about it.....old houses, amirite?" situation. Yeah just remove boards, put it insulation, put back boards bing bang boom. Oh your house isn't wood-clad well gently caress your house then burn it down.
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Dec 2, 2021 01:28
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insta posted:👀 i can do the needful I really cannot imagine my husband's reaction to my inviting a stranger over to inspect the Mystery Switch for the internet's amusement. That's not a "no", though. edit: he said to ask my dad lol (because he wants to know if my dad thinks having someone poke around would mess it up even more, not because I need to ask my dad for permission for things.) HelloIAmYourHeart fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Dec 2, 2021 |
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Dec 2, 2021 02:25
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3D Megadoodoo posted:Yeah just remove boards, put it insulation, put back boards bing bang boom. It's almost like owning a non-goverhaus requires maintenance or something. And sometimes that's expensive, but pays out over time. And in this case not a lot of time. Also, it's not clear why wood clad is the only thing that makes this "easy" or whatever you're on about.
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Dec 2, 2021 03:03
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Jerry Cotton has ideas about the superiority of Finnish methods.
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Dec 2, 2021 04:10
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Platystemon posted:Jerry Cotton has ideas does he though?
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Dec 2, 2021 04:32
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Motronic posted:Also, it's not clear why wood clad is the only thing that makes this "easy" or whatever you're on about. Wood is very forgiving. I don't think I'd like to do the thing with brick.
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Dec 2, 2021 06:59
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Vinyl is only for pet household floors, I don't think I've ever seen vinyl siding
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Dec 2, 2021 10:29
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Bensa posted:Vinyl is only for pet household floors, I don't think I've ever seen vinyl siding Thankfully
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Dec 2, 2021 12:52
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Bensa posted:Vinyl is only for pet household floors, I don't think I've ever seen vinyl siding Oh god what a world it would be.
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Dec 2, 2021 15:23
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