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FirstAidKite posted:There is not a single time where anasui is clowned on or otherwise portrayed positively for his behavior and courtly love of jolyne jolyne and annasui get lovey dovey during made in heaven
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Dec 4, 2021 23:12
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grieving for Gandalf posted:I think it bums me out that Josuke and Giorno and all their pals who survived their ordeals and grew as people all get wiped out It may be indulgent as hell but for me the perfect ending to part 6 would have been Giorno and Josuke showing up and saving the day (Joseph is there too). All the surviving Joestars work together and defeat Pucci, finally putting an end to the last remaining spectre of Dio and having Pucci flip the gently caress out at the irony of Joseph, Jotaro and Dio's kids teaming up to whoop his rear end. Araki already teased that Giorno might be in the area and Jotaro calling Josuke in as backup is believable. You don't need the universe to reset to set up part 7 since that isn't even the Ireneverse anyway. Also Jolyne, Josuke and Giorno get to meet and be friends and theres finally payoff to Giorno being Dio's kid. It's extremely indulgent but as an ending to a 6 part series it's allowed to be. Aurora posted:jolyne and annasui get lovey dovey during made in heaven Pretty sure she only agrees to marry him because she knows they're all about to die.
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Dec 4, 2021 23:15
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Aurora posted:jolyne and annasui get lovey dovey during made in heaven It takes them until they are turbofucked before she even acknowledges his feelings and is like "ok fine, if we get through this then sure." It's the jojo equivalent of this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqdNe8u-Jsg
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Dec 4, 2021 23:24
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grieving for Gandalf posted:I think it bums me out that Josuke and Giorno and all their pals who survived their ordeals and grew as people all get wiped out They're fine. The people who got killed, sorry FF, are the ones reincarnated.
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Dec 4, 2021 23:29
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Irene and Anakiss are on their way to get a marriage blessing from Irene's parents, Qtaro Kujo and Tenmei Kakyoin.
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Dec 4, 2021 23:58
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MonsterEnvy posted:McQueen is not even a stalker, he's a thief. And it appears that his suicidal tendencies where ramped up by him losing his memories. Wait, is it different in the manga? (It's been a while since I read it) In the anime he's in jail for an  accidental murder. And his first lines are about him having experienced stalking before but never being stalked.
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Dec 5, 2021 00:07
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It's cool that Giorno didn't show up because Giorno sucks.
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Dec 5, 2021 00:25
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Schwarzwald posted:Jolyne 100% dies and stays dead but the conclusion is hella cathartic because the story is about escaping prison and fate (which is a prison) and in the end they do. 
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Dec 5, 2021 00:28
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If Giorno showed up, Pucci would fall in love with him and everything would be solved.
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Dec 5, 2021 00:29
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Ryaomon posted:Irene and Anakiss are on their way to get a marriage blessing from Irene's parents, Qtaro Kujo and Tenmei Kakyoin. We're never told that her last name is Kujo/Cujoh, it's entirely possible that one of her parents is Kei or Yoshikage Kakyoin is still there, of course
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Dec 5, 2021 00:32
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grieving for Gandalf posted:I think it bums me out that Josuke and Giorno and all their pals who survived their ordeals and grew as people all get wiped out Giorno is fine. People who died are dead but people who survived the universe acceleration got their souls transposed into the new universe. It's why Emporio is the only survivor of the main Part 6 cast. So Giorno, Josuke, and I guess super old man Joseph survived. Unless they died in an accident from the rest of the world speeding up around them, but that seems unlikely given their capabilities. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 00:38
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I honestly love that Joseph is the only Joestar ever to beat the curse and make it to old age, he's just too much of an undignified buffoon to have a poignant melodramatic death
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Dec 5, 2021 00:41
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multijoe posted:I honestly love that Joseph is the only Joestar ever to beat the curse and make it to old age, he's just too much of an undignified buffoon to have a poignant melodramatic death No reason to think Giorno and Josuke didn't live on into old age in the new universe.
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Dec 5, 2021 00:42
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Two Tone Shoes posted:No reason to think Giorno and Josuke didn't live on into old age in the new universe. Their souls might be intact for whatever that means but they had to have grown up and existed in this new world with a different set of experiences that their old selves, so I figure in a practical sense every single person other than Emporio had to have pretty much died when they were reincarnated into their new reality
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Dec 5, 2021 00:46
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multijoe posted:Their souls might be intact for whatever that means but they had to have grown up and existed in this new world with a different set of experiences that their old selves, so I figure in a practical sense every single person other than Emporio had to have pretty much died when they were reincarnated into their new reality The reason Emporio remembers everything is because he didn't die. People who died had their "souls" brought over to the new universe. From a small ant all the way up to Emporio, thus the imagery at the end. It'd be really loving confusing for them and they'd have lost family members and stuff but there it is. It's a messy ending. Probably would've been less mess if he didn't include the Emporio and ant bit.
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Dec 5, 2021 00:52
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The implication of the new universe is that Pucci doesn't exist, so I wonder if that causes changes to previous parts like Stardust Crusaders.multijoe posted:I honestly love that Joseph is the only Joestar ever to beat the curse and make it to old age, he's just too much of an undignified buffoon to have a poignant melodramatic death He tried, but Jotaro refused to let him. 
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Dec 5, 2021 00:57
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Yeah I figure if Jotaro and Jolyne didn't exist but their doppelgangers did and had prior experiences in the world, they had to be integrated with the lives of the survivors of the old world. Its very co fusing to think about but I just don't see how they could have Giorno with continuity of experience from the old world
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Dec 5, 2021 01:11
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They just kind of magically get planted somewhere in the world that suits them like Emprio magically got planted next to the reincarnations of his friends, I suppose.
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Dec 5, 2021 01:14
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That's Gravity.
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Dec 5, 2021 02:20
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This is what happens when you don't bring Koichi
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Dec 5, 2021 05:13
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Jotaro's last thoughts were "i bet koichi could've saved us, he's a reliable guy"
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Dec 5, 2021 05:18
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Not much super speed can do for you if you're frozen in place e: ugh, I just remembered how jojolion ended and god that was just such a simultaneously rushed and overly drawn out mess of an ending 
FirstAidKite fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 05:19
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:Jotaro's last thoughts were "why did josuke take my pen"
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Dec 5, 2021 06:00
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My thoughts on the ending o Part 6 are as follows: if you want to believe that everyone is dead and everything is meaningless, it's valid. If you believe that souls got reincarnated and some lived experiences still remain, that's also true. I feel like the point of a fairly abrupt ending upon the defeat of fate is that there is no definitive answer. The author has nothing they can add because that would be yet another example of creating the inescapable fate. Much like Shigesato Itoi's Mother 3 ending with the black screen but confirming that everything is safe, I feel like you, as a reader, decide what happens. The characters are now free from their fate.
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Dec 5, 2021 13:11
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It's fiction. Whatever character's he made up in the new universe are bound by the fate of whatever Araki wrote for them then and there. There isn't some meta escaping of Araki as a writer...he wrote them. That he didn't continue the series with these new characters with different names and a different life seems rather irrelevant to the characters we followed for 150 chapters. They...escaped their fate by succumbing to their fate? All the metatextual stuff seems rather after the fact and irrelevant to me. The metatextual "we're characters in a story/controlled by fate" awareness thing would maybe have some impact if the characters we read grappled with the situation outside of Pucci just yelling that he's destined by fate to win and constantly lucking out to win. There's like no discourse on the subject and everyone just dies which is kind of the opposite of approaching an actual metatextual story structure. They never deal with the consequences of what Pucci does, they just die and Emporio stops him. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 19:13
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It almost raises the question of what the point of defeating Dio was. Sure, that version of events would be even worse but knowing how it ends makes me like Jolyne and co less. It's all going in the dumpster anyway. Outside of the obvious things (Alessi, other creep poo poo) I usually don't have a problem with Arakis writing but here I feel he just hosed it.
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Dec 5, 2021 19:49
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Whole lotta diavolos in this thread rn
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Dec 5, 2021 19:50
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Brandfarlig posted:It almost raises the question of what the point of defeating Dio was. Sure, that version of events would be even worse but knowing how it ends makes me like Jolyne and co less. It's all going in the dumpster anyway. Outside of the obvious things (Alessi, other creep poo poo) I usually don't have a problem with Arakis writing but here I feel he just hosed it. I get not liking the ending or finding it divisive, but I wouldn't say everything is in the dumpster. It's not like Pucci wins. I will admit that it's disappointing this is the final battle and the Duwang Gang and Gangstars aren't present. Also, the only female protagonist gets killed.
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Dec 5, 2021 19:59
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I both accept and reject the ending of part 6. I feel like the universe reset is cheap and unsatisfying, but it's still fine for a highly dramatic jojo ending. I like to imagine a version of part 6 that ends without a universe reset, where Jotaro still dies but Jolyne ends up finding a way to win with Emporio's help, and has to keep going on, leading to a very different part 7 taking place in the 2010s or maybe even beyond. I figure, by the time part 4 happens, it's mainly just the Speedwagon foundation and an increasing number of users who really knows about stands. By part 5, it's clear that knowledge of stands has spread to the point that organizations like the mafia are beginning to either recruit & use them, or get forcibly taken over by them. By part 6 certain parts of the US government even have special protocols to deal with stand users in e.g. prison. I figure if things kept going on the same timeline, a different part 7 could probably focus on the Speedwagon Foundation coming into conflict with world powers, with maybe e.g. CIA stand users being sent to infiltrate and take over the Speedwagon Foundation to try and get their info on, say, DIO and the World, or something like that. And in my head-fanfic the star of this part would be Shizuka Joestar, who encounters and ends up being mentored by Jolyne, and the central Joestar familial conflict could be Shizuka learning about the Joestar legacy and getting wrapped up in their shenanigans. SBR could still happen as is, as a side story, maybe with SBR happening in parallel to part 1 with a different Joestar (and even Diego being an estranged Brando child).
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Dec 5, 2021 20:06
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:I get not liking the ending or finding it divisive, but I wouldn't say everything is in the dumpster. It's not like Pucci wins. Sure, but killing nearly everyone that appears in the part that I give a poo poo about and then moving to another universe is drat close to the dumpster. Jolyne fails. Jotaro fails. I get that being mad about stand powers is mostly pointless but Whitesnake feels really contrived. Pucci almost wins...because he's so bullshit he had to. gently caress Dio, Pucci could've had him as a goon.
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Dec 5, 2021 20:09
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Death is not failure and success is not always without loss. The events that happened and the characters we grew to care about may be gone but we carry them with us. Just as Emporio's stand carries the memories of Green Dolphin Street before the blaze that destroyed it, Emporio himself carries those ghosts of memories into the future. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYNcW-O1Oo8&t=604s
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Dec 5, 2021 20:15
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FirstAidKite posted:Death is not failure and success is not always without loss. The events that happened and the characters we grew to care about may be gone but we carry them with us. This feels really cheap and unsupported as an idea by the actual text. Maybe if Emporio wasn't the only character to survive, or at least if we saw the new universe for more than like, three loving pages.
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Dec 5, 2021 20:18
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Yeah that's part of why part 6's ending missed me kinda bad. In the end it becomes Emporio's losses, Emporio's sacrifices, Emporio's victory, because Emporio's the only one who remembers any of it or was affected by any of it. Not to get too philosophical but despite Araki's "they carry the emotions etc etc" explanation, if the new crew doesn't remember what happened, and they lived different lives, then they're effectively different people and the ones we knew are just dead and gone. That's how I feel, and I think agreement/disagreement is probably rooted in how an individual personally feels about what makes a person themself. Should be fun to see the anime-only reactions when we get to that point in the anime thread lol
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Dec 5, 2021 20:18
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Arist posted:This feels really cheap and unsupported as an idea by the actual text. Maybe if Emporio wasn't the only character to survive, or at least if we saw the new universe for more than like, three loving pages. actually we see the new universe for 3 pages plus two more parts!! 
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Dec 5, 2021 20:19
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I understand why people are placing a lot of weight on statements Araki seems to have made about this but in the end I don't feel like the story he wrote actually communicates those ideas very well even if that was the intention.
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Dec 5, 2021 20:20
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Arist posted:I understand why people are placing a lot of weight on statements Araki seems to have made about this but in the end I don't feel like the story he wrote actually communicates those ideas very well even if that was the intention. 
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Dec 5, 2021 20:21
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:actually we see the new universe for 3 pages plus two more parts!! I'm gonna right back and say that isn't SBR and part 8 specifically not that universe?The result does matter. Part 5 would be better with a more coherent ending. It's made worse by that not being the case. Pucci tripping on the finish line is good but I don't think part 3 would be improved by Jotaro and Joseph dying at the same time as Dio. Technically, that's a win but it would feel hollow. Brandfarlig fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 20:26
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Arist posted:This feels really cheap and unsupported as an idea by the actual text. Maybe if Emporio wasn't the only character to survive, or at least if we saw the new universe for more than like, three loving pages. We don't need to see an entire part to understand that pucci lost, jolyne and co won, and everything is for the better. The end result is not the sole thing that matters. The fight ended, made in heaven was defeated, and emporio carries their spirit and memory with him. It is sad. It is somber. It is bittersweet. It is not pointless just because it was lost. It was never pointless. Everything had a point. The point was the adventure.
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Dec 5, 2021 20:26
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Pucci created a universe where neither he nor Jolyne ever exist, congratulations, everyone loses. And if we're talking about the fight at the end, Jolyne getting ran over off screen is about the least satisfying conclusion to a character I've ever seen. It's not bittersweet if there is no sweet. It's only bittersweet in a world where Emporio is the main character whose journey we were invested in.
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Dec 5, 2021 20:30
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Brandfarlig posted:I'm gonna I actually have no idea, i always assumed it was the new universe. Did araki create three universes? Lol E: Brandfarlig posted:The result does matter. Part 5 would be better with a more coherent ending. It's made worse by that not being the case. Pucci tripping on the finish line is good but I don't think part 3 would be improved by Jotaro and Joseph dying at the same time as Dio. Technically, that's a win but it would feel hollow.
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Dec 5, 2021 20:31
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