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if you watched the anime you woudl know it was 2011...
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Dec 5, 2021 23:16
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Is JOJOLANDs out yet?
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Dec 5, 2021 23:17
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Aurora posted:if you watched the anime you woudl know it was 2011... No netflix, only seen some of the anime
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Dec 5, 2021 23:18
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:Personally I don't like it because it has the same impact as "It was all just a dream..." Like you could change the ending to Jolyne waking up and realizing she dreamed all of parts 1-6 and none of it actually happened, but now she and her family can live free of worry about DIO etc. because they never existed anymore, and it has the same impact. I disagree with this. The new world where they can live in peace is a direct result of their actions, their struggles. It didn't just happen, it was earned. Irene's life is Jolyne's legacy.
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Dec 5, 2021 23:18
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Augus posted:??? McQueen literally tried to murder Ermes he wasn’t portrayed as “harmless” at all yeah pucci literally directly says mcqueen is an insanely hosed up guy lol
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Dec 5, 2021 23:19
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Dragonwagon posted:I disagree with this. The new world where they can live in peace is a direct result of their actions, their struggles. It didn't just happen, it was earned. Irene's life is Jolyne's legacy. Yeah but none of them remember or will ever know (just carrying the emotions or whatever), so it ultimately has the same impact as it-was-all-a-dream.
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Dec 5, 2021 23:20
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It seems pretty doubtful that Araki was trying to troll and be all like I'm gonna make an ending that means nothing and everyone dies, that's it. So I'm not sure why people would make that argument in particular, but its definitely open ended enough that you can argue a whole lot of things. But he was clearly going for something whether we can agree on what that is or whether he achieved it in the most effective way possible. Though personally I think Irene is definitely intended to be a continuation of Jolyne in some real way. I don't think she's an unrelated clone that has nothing to do with the experiences and essence of the original. Because we already saw a counterfit jolyne in the story, and Emporio quickly understood that Pucci-world Jolyne was a fake. That's then confirmed by Pucci saying he has removed all of the Joestars from his world. Then when he meets Irene, sees the star, and tells her his name, hes crying. That's not the reaction of someone meeting a stranger who resembles someone he used to know but rather a reaction that fits being reunited with his closest friend who he thought he would never see again. Emporio is the only holder of memories from the previous world, he is the only one left capable of recognizing her and he absolutely does. Whether it's reincarnation or whatever who knows. That's how it reads to me anyways.
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Dec 5, 2021 23:26
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Something that is definitely a huge stretch and just basing poo poo off of absolutely nothing but the tiniest coincidence is that Jolyne was tied to the Joestar rivalry with Dio and anything involving or related to Dio in some way, but in the new universe she is her own person separate from the fate of that blood, no longer under threat due to the actions of her ancestors, no longer having to worry about revenge plots from fanatics of a dead guy, she becomes her own person away from the ties of Jolyne and becomes a new separate self, Irene.
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Dec 5, 2021 23:33
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I think the simpler theory is that Araki isn't particularly good at endings. He writes adventures, not endings.
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Dec 5, 2021 23:36
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now that Part 6 is slowly releasing its episode batches, does this mean that the Pucci question will be brought up again only to be finally put to rest?
Current mood: https://vimeo.com/921220930
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Dec 5, 2021 23:36
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:Yeah but none of them remember or will ever know (just carrying the emotions or whatever), so it ultimately has the same impact as it-was-all-a-dream. nah
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Dec 5, 2021 23:36
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SKULL.GIF posted:I think the simpler theory is that Araki isn't particularly good at endings. He writes adventures, not endings. Truly he is the Stephen King of manga
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Dec 5, 2021 23:37
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:Yeah but none of them remember or will ever know (just carrying the emotions or whatever), so it ultimately has the same impact as it-was-all-a-dream. "It was all a dream" sucks because ultimately it flushes the reality you cared about down the drain, but there's more going on with Stone Ocean. While you could argue that they achieve the same thing, I'd say it's pretty offensive to suggest this. It doesn't negate the actions of Joseph or Josuke and doesn't suggest that they didn't exist or saved nobody, just like it clearly implies that it was a victory over Pucci. What happened happened, and what will be happening will be the result of those actions. It does make Ep 1 a LOT more heartbreaking, but I love this kind of melancholic poo poo.
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Dec 5, 2021 23:38
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SKULL.GIF posted:I think the simpler theory is that Araki isn't particularly good at endings. He writes adventures, not endings. Part 5 and 8 are the only ones that don’t have solid endings lol
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Dec 5, 2021 23:38
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NyaNyaMeister posted:now that Part 6 is slowly releasing its episode batches, does this mean that the Pucci question will be brought up again only to be finally put to rest? What is the Pucci question? The KKK thing?
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Dec 5, 2021 23:38
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NyaNyaMeister posted:now that Part 6 is slowly releasing its episode batches, does this mean that the Pucci question will be brought up again only to be finally put to rest? The whole "was he in love with DIO"? I guess so. Everyone was, and he was described as hot as hell by every character who mentioned his appearance.
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Dec 5, 2021 23:39
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I’m guessing by “pucci question” they mean “does enrico pucci is gay?”
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Dec 5, 2021 23:41
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I like how when Avdol sees how hot Dio is his only response is to jump out a window and flee
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Dec 5, 2021 23:41
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Augus posted:I’m guessing by “pucci question” they mean “does enrico pucci is gay?”
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Dec 5, 2021 23:41
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:What is the Pucci question? The KKK thing? yeah, the whole debate about his race/ethnicity. Vookatos posted:The gently caress is a Pucci Question. what the heck no
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Dec 5, 2021 23:42
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bobjr posted:I like how when Avdol sees how hot Dio is his only response is to jump out a window and flee it was no-nut november
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Dec 5, 2021 23:42
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I thought the Pucci question is what the hell is he doing with his hand here
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Dec 5, 2021 23:43
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hatty posted:I thought the Pucci question is what the hell is he doing with his hand here excuse my crude use of language, but I think Pucci is naenae'ing.
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Dec 5, 2021 23:45
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hatty posted:I thought the Pucci question is what the hell is he doing with his hand here That's just how you fight snails
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Dec 5, 2021 23:46
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hatty posted:I thought the Pucci question is what the hell is he doing with his hand here That's the universal gesture for what's going on with these snails
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Dec 5, 2021 23:46
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Finally finished the last four volumes of part 6 last night and I kinda loved it. I guess knowing basically that poo poo was gonna get hosed up on a huge level helped me prepare my expectations a lot, because I really felt the whole story was building up a sense that some of these Stands are just getting too powerful and reality-altering to not have drastic consequences. I think, whatever else one may criticize Araki for, he has a great sense of establishing the stakes, the tension, the danger, etc.; while Jojo fights are constantly ended through a "cheat" of some sort, I think he manages to do that without deflating the sense that the good guys are walking a razor's edge and are almost always moments away from complete disaster. In terms of like, "they will never remember their past selves" or whatever, I dunno. Araki is always fine messing around with stuff like ghosts, and Stone Ocean in particular was so frequently wielding pseudoscientific, urban legendy nonsense (in a way I found fun) that I did not see many hard lines drawn by the changed universe at the end; it seemed more like the only hard details we're given are that a few key things are basically objectively better for these people. I feel like people having some kind of real connection to their past lives would fit very normally with stuff like "you are only a snail right now because the vibrations in light caused you to see yourself as a snail."
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Dec 5, 2021 23:53
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:Truly he is the Stephen King of manga No that's Junji Ito hatty posted:I thought the Pucci question is what the hell is he doing with his hand here Getting ready to roast them
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Dec 5, 2021 23:53
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:Yeah but none of them remember or will ever know (just carrying the emotions or whatever), so it ultimately has the same impact as it-was-all-a-dream. Why does it matter if they remember or not? Its all really similar to Jonathan's death. None of his descendants got to meet him. Josuke and Jolyne might not have even heard about him, and Goirno definitely didn't. But that does not diminish his sacrifice, and his spirit still lives on in them. Its the same with Jolyne and Irene.
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Dec 5, 2021 23:58
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FirstAidKite posted:No that's Junji Ito
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Dec 5, 2021 23:58
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See, I'm not buying the idea that creating a world where the Jojos never get to go on crazy adventures and do cool stuff with super powers never happened is good. They reboot the entire universe, erasing the potentiality of every living person who ever was, so that they can be...entirely different people who live uncomplicated lives? Is this even a more positive resolution? Why are we, the readers, supposed to like the idea that the protagonist vs antagonist struggle of the entire history of Jojo was erased from reality? Also it's not like getting rid of Dio and Pucci stops Kars, Kira, Enya, etc anyhow so, you know, the idea of defeating Pucci freeing the Jojo's from their trials and tribulations seems off. Like who the gently caress stops Kars when the Nazis dig him out of the ground if Johnathan isn't around to beget Joseph with cool Hamon powers? I guess the Zeppelis were gonna do it all along? Is there a Zeppeli's Bizzare Adventure going on in the background of Ireneverse? Is Avdol the main character of Part 3 chasing down Enya? Does Kira just get to continue murdering people forever because Josuke never goes on a Bizarre adventure? WHAT ABOUT SPEEDWAGON? Even the implication of the Pucci and (maybe) Dio free universe doesn't seem like a better one. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Dec 6, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2021 00:04
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Two Tone Shoes posted:See, I'm not buying the idea that creating a world where the Jojos never get to go on crazy adventures and do cool stuff with super powers never happened is good. They reboot the entire universe, erasing the potentiality of every living person who ever was, so that they can be...entirely different people who live uncomplicated lives?
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Dec 6, 2021 00:08
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Martman posted:I don't think we were shown nearly enough to assume any of this is the case. I mean the only thing we actually know is every single member of the Jolyne crew but Emporio are completely different people who apparently don't have magic powers. So something changed prior to Jolyne being born to change her name and the same for the rest of the crew. I'm guessing the metatextual idea here is that deleting Pucci somehow retroactively undoes ALL the conflict in the history of Jojo's Bizzare Adventure, the Manga, even the stuff not related to Pucci. Everything else is speculation, I guess. Except that ant? The ant gets to carry over like Emporio for some reason, which is why I always assumed people who didn't die got transmigrated over like Emporio. All that's left is speculation on the implications of the finale, and pretty much all the speculation ends up being different flavors of dumb and unsatisfying. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Dec 6, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2021 00:12
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There’s nothing that suggests the Joestars didn’t go on some form of their adventures in the new universe, just that Irene (and I guess probably Qtaro) didn’t. Pucci doesn’t exist in that world but I don’t know why people are assuming DIO didn’t.
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Dec 6, 2021 00:16
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gonna be hosed up when jojolands is about irene and is in the sbrverse
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Dec 6, 2021 00:19
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Two Tone Shoes posted:I mean the only thing we actually know is every single member of the Jolyne crew but Emporio are completely different people who apparently don't have magic powers. So something changed prior to Jolyne being born to change her name and the same for the rest of the crew. I'm guessing the metatextual idea here is that deleting Pucci somehow retroactively undoes ALL the conflict in the history of Jojo's Bizzare Adventure, the Manga, even the stuff not related to Pucci.
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Dec 6, 2021 00:24
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Hitlersaurus Christ posted:There’s nothing that suggests the Joestars didn’t go on some form of their adventures in the new universe, just that Irene (and I guess probably Qtaro) didn’t. Pucci doesn’t exist in that world but I don’t know why people are assuming DIO didn’t. Because Hermes, Weather Report, and Anasui are all different. It is assumed the new universe has altered everyone in that way. I mean Weather Report and Hermes not having stand powers makes sense (Weather Report gets it from Pucci getting arrow'd after all) but why is Anasui just a regular person? Is his backstory somehow tied to Pucci, and thus somehow how he got his powers? Dude was just a creepy murderer who showed up with a Stand. Martman posted:I just... don't see where you're actually getting any of this? It kind of seems like you are pulling the most unsatisfying interpretation out of thin air and then getting mad at it. I've given like 3 different interpretations based on the little bit of information we got at the end. It's all theoretical because there's obviously no more story being told with any of these characters. That speculation is the only closure involved and the myriad of different theories all point back to being unsatisfying. But hey, give your interpretation of the new universe. I'm all ears. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Dec 6, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2021 00:25
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Two Tone Shoes posted:I've given like 3 different interpretations based on the little bit of information we got at the end. It's all theoretical because there's obviously no more story being told with any of these characters. That speculation is the only closure involved and the myriad of different theories all point back to being unsatisfying
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Dec 6, 2021 00:29
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Stand escalation could be a thing the series deals with but Araki could've also just not written a stand that restarts the universe. You could say that part 6 has a deeper ending than part 3 but it's also likely true that less people have the opinion that the part 3 ending sucks. I'm very partial to a happy ending though.
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Dec 6, 2021 00:34
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Well anyway, I agree it's extremely unclear, so I would focus on the few things we are definitely given. Like, I don't think Irene is necessarily a completely different person from Jolyne. I think whatever has been changed in this universe has resulted in her not being named in a way that follows the JoJo rules, and that seems meaningful. Her experience in part 6 is one where she is trapped in a story she did not choose, i.e. the conflict of her ancestors, and it has resulted in her entire life feeling like a prison. The end sees a version of her that seems to be more free to choose her own path. I found that very happy. I don't really see any evidence to conclude that people will or won't get their magic powers; lots of details could be changed about when and how Stands might arise, but it is a huge leap to say that the ending shows the powers and adventures being deleted.
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Dec 6, 2021 00:39
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Martman posted:But you completely added in the parts that seem to be particularly frustrating to you. I mean I could definitely come up with way worse ones. Those are just the best speculation I could come up with with the minimal info we got. Martman posted:Well anyway, I agree it's extremely unclear, so I would focus on the few things we are definitely given. Like, I don't think Irene is necessarily a completely different person from Jolyne. I think whatever has been changed in this universe has resulted in her not being named in a way that follows the JoJo rules, and that seems meaningful. Yeah but the sum of the character that we grow to enjoy and like no longer exists. Also she's still with Anasui so it's definitely a bad end. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Dec 6, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2021 00:41
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