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They tried to tell us King Crimson was the strongest stand but considering Polneraff found a way around it, it really didn't seem that way. Using the arrow felt more about making sure Diavolo couldn't use it rather then needing its power to beat him.
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Dec 8, 2021 22:28
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| # ? May 26, 2024 19:04 |
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King Crimson is unbeatable because the way it works is different every time its used
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Dec 8, 2021 22:31
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multijoe posted:King Crimson is unbeatable because the way it works is different every time its used Ah, it has the same mysterious power as Gold Experience....
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Dec 8, 2021 22:34
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Momomo posted:They tried to tell us King Crimson was the strongest stand but considering Polneraff found a way around it, it really didn't seem that way. Using the arrow felt more about making sure Diavolo couldn't use it rather then needing its power to beat him. He found a brief counter, that Diavolo saw through and instantly defeated him
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Dec 8, 2021 22:58
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multijoe posted:King Crimson is unbeatable because the way it works is different every time its used It's more consistent then most people think.
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Dec 8, 2021 22:59
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KC can only see a possible future so you devise a situation he can't get out of. Lock him in a strong enough cage and he can't zip out of it if it takes more than 10 seconds to do so. You'd have to write a combination attack that solves that problem which is difficult but not impossible. Or you hope Diavolo kills Narancia at the beach instead in which case Risotto does their job for them. Also Polnareff had years to think about it and he didn't bring a watch, timer of any sort or an hourglass? MonsterEnvy posted:It's more consistent then most people think. I watched part 5 fairly recently and I didn't think it was that complicated. I know it's meme but still. Gold experience is the bigger mess by far Or you solve all of this with Diavolo being smart enough to use a drat condom. He was indirectly beaten by his own dick. Brandfarlig fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Dec 8, 2021 |
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Dec 8, 2021 23:00
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The way to solve Part 5's climax is ridiculously obvious in hindsight: just loving make Epitaph Doppio's Stand instead of a sub-Stand of King Crimson so that Diavolo's foreknowledge disappears with Doppio's death, and then the fights can actually involve proper JoJo trickery and wit instead of Giorno just saying "I'm rubber and you're glue."
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Dec 8, 2021 23:08
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Arist posted:The way to solve Part 5's climax is ridiculously obvious in hindsight: just loving make Epitaph Doppio's Stand instead of a sub-Stand of King Crimson so that Diavolo's foreknowledge disappears with Doppio's death, and then the fights can actually involve proper JoJo trickery and wit instead of Giorno just saying "I'm rubber and you're glue." I've been saying this for years
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Dec 8, 2021 23:11
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MonsterEnvy posted:It's more consistent then most people think. No, it isn't. It's insanely stupid and used in mutually contradicting ways depending on what would give Diavolo dominance at this particular moment. Quoting me last time it came up: multijoe posted:I already brought this up in the manga thread so sorry for sounding like a broken record but does King Crimson:
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Dec 8, 2021 23:14
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Brandfarlig posted:Or you solve all of this with Diavolo being smart enough to use a drat condom. He was indirectly beaten by his own dick. Cultural catholicism as the fatal flaw of a guy named devil is pretty funny
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Dec 8, 2021 23:17
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Arist posted:The way to solve Part 5's climax is ridiculously obvious in hindsight: just loving make Epitaph Doppio's Stand instead of a sub-Stand of King Crimson so that Diavolo's foreknowledge disappears with Doppio's death, and then the fights can actually involve proper JoJo trickery and wit instead of Giorno just saying "I'm rubber and you're glue." Diavolo needs Epitaph to properly use King Crimson otherwise he's just as lost as anyone else after the time skip, right? Cause that would be funny as hell to see him try bumble through the time skip and hoping that he did what he needed to in the past 10 seconds.
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Dec 8, 2021 23:28
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King Crimson is more consistent than Gold Experience, but then you still have weird things like "King Crimson can't move things during skipped time, but let me just empty out my hotel room during skipped time while the cleaning lady walks in on me."Arist posted:The way to solve Part 5's climax is ridiculously obvious in hindsight: just loving make Epitaph Doppio's Stand instead of a sub-Stand of King Crimson so that Diavolo's foreknowledge disappears with Doppio's death, and then the fights can actually involve proper JoJo trickery and wit instead of Giorno just saying "I'm rubber and you're glue." This fits with the fortuneteller's commentary about Doppio being the key to Diavolo's success even.
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Dec 8, 2021 23:29
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Electric Phantasm posted:Diavolo needs Epitaph to properly use King Crimson otherwise he's just as lost as anyone else after the time skip, right? Without epitaph it's potentially a huge liability since he could skip into a lethal situation. Neat idea but KC is almost useless without future sight.
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Dec 8, 2021 23:50
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it’s hard to even imagine how king crimson would function without epitaph. Wouldn’t he end up being just as disoriented by the time skips as anyone else in that case?
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Dec 9, 2021 00:01
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Gold Experience does work on very broadly applied rules, it's us that they basically amount to "are God." It basically flies in the face of what you're taught is good storytelling lot of the time, I get it. Ya either come to terms w that very quickly or never at all. I just love the lil pink cannoli beastmaster. KC was never gonna have a straight fight against him, so the arrow shenanigans were required to basically level him out w the protagonists. I just enjoyed how every member of the cast was involved and making decisions and plays. It was arguably even better than 4's ending at that, even if Part 4 was more tightly designed to telegraph each point of the fight most of its series run. Needing to break the whole world down to the level of theoretical physics to look at the thought that "in this life, there are some things you just can't do, even if you are right" and going, "No." Man, that's so sick. Pootybutt fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 00:21
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Gold Experience is cool when it does some plant poo poo, but dumb when it does some animal poo poo.
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Dec 9, 2021 00:25
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:
Well this is true, Doppio comes up with several of the plans they were making, he’s even the one who decides to alert Bruno’s group to them. Diavolo only loses after he ditches Doppio as well.
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Dec 9, 2021 00:28
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The dumb animal poo poo is the most JoJo it ever feels. Inject bricksnake into my veins. Literally can't change my mind.
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Dec 9, 2021 00:28
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Pootybutt posted:The dumb animal poo poo is the most JoJo it ever feels. Inject bricksnake into my veins. Literally can't change my mind. 
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Dec 9, 2021 00:34
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no it was jellyfish
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Dec 9, 2021 00:37
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Xad posted:It's like someone time traveling to make a happier future that they don't get to be in because time travel creates alternate universes or whatever. Even if they die doing it they still succeeded and created a good ending for someone else, being upset that they died and "someone wearing their face" had a good life because of it is uh kinda missing the point, sometimes you can't save the world you're in so you save somebody else's. If alt universe Jolyne was still named Jolyne would that make you feel better? It's not even that. JoJos has definitive souls. It's like the ending of What Dreams May come where, spoilers, the lead decides he'd rather be reincarnated and meet his soulmate again because that would be the more interesting journey for him - being able to live and fall in love all over again. And knowing Araki, he watched that, so yeah.
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Dec 9, 2021 00:41
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Without Epitaph it becomes a question of what exactly makes King Crimson's power functionally different from The World.
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Dec 9, 2021 00:41
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Getting rid of Epitaph is a great way to defang King Crimson. Even with it, I don't think it's impossible to write a scenario in which 4 stand users working together could beat him. Bruno managed to bullshit his way through a fight for pretty long. King Crimson is still just a punch stand. He can skip time all he wants but he still needs to hit you to win. You could have Giorno's damage reflection come back and he starts chucking poison frogs around, have Trish turn people into rubber so KC just bounces off, zips on everything, bullets going everwhere. Heck, have Fugo show up for a last minute save, his ability is basically a KC counter all by itself. Meanwhile Diavolo starts panicking because the fight is happening right out in public and he doesn't have Doppio anymore. You could write Diavolo losing and I'd buy it.
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Dec 9, 2021 00:41
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Brandfarlig posted:KC can only see a possible future so you devise a situation he can't get out of. Lock him in a strong enough cage and he can't zip out of it if it takes more than 10 seconds to do so. He'll see the cage. You have to trick him into thinking he'll win with a move and not realize he'll lose, which takes a weird counter stand that does something wacky that throws off Epitaphs vision. That's how Giorno got the arrow, although it was kind of confusing.
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Dec 9, 2021 00:45
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Funky Valentine posted:Without Epitaph it becomes a question of what exactly makes King Crimson's power functionally different from The World. Feels like it'd be like The World, but if time also stopped for you
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Dec 9, 2021 00:45
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In many ways Giorno really is young Joseph except without the showmanship or cartoon antics
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Dec 9, 2021 00:47
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multijoe posted:In many ways Giorno really is young Joseph except without the showmanship or cartoon antics
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Dec 9, 2021 00:49
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Martman posted:That's like saying someone is like Johnathan except without being a complete dweeb with tire-sized shoulders. What else is there?? Giorno pulls bullshit equal to young Joseph without the charm, which is why hes so ehhh. Araki wanted Joseph written like Dio + Jonathan which sucks. Joseph's ending with the volcano was just as bullshit but it was funny so nobody minds it. Joleyne is basically old Joseph or something with a cockier Jotaro personality which works. Darko fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 00:54
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Martman posted:That's like saying someone is like Johnathan except without being a complete dweeb with tire-sized shoulders. What else is there?? Well it turns out that's what made Joseph work, but they both have do-anything powers and love to reveal they've already won by using them in completely novel and unforeshdowed ways. Like for instance both have scenes where they fire a bullet that 'missed' and then stall for time whilst actual plan happens, but Joseph stalls by crying on the ground like a baby and then doing his 'next line' trick whereas Giorno just gives a boring fillibuster
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Dec 9, 2021 00:54
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MonsterEnvy posted:I guess he could not think of a way for them to beat King Crimson. It's stronger then the World, and basically unbeatable thanks to the Pre Cognition it has.
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Dec 9, 2021 00:54
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What I like about Giorno’s OP-ness is that it feels justified given that he’s clearly got a LOT of Dio in him. So when he gets godlike powers there’s this added layer of thinking “thank god he’s not *too* much like Dio”. The grey morality fits a mafia genre piece like a glove.
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Dec 9, 2021 01:00
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Darko posted:He'll see the cage. You have to trick him into thinking he'll win with a move and not realize he'll lose, which takes a weird counter stand that does something wacky that throws off Epitaphs vision. That's how Giorno got the arrow, although it was kind of confusing. Sure, the cage should be more metaphorical than I said. My point is that his future sight isn't unbeatable if you can get him in a situation there is no getting out of. What that would involve and still be a good fight I'll leave to someone who's actually a writer. I don't mind gold experience even if it kind of does whatever. It has very strong hand squirrel DNA which automatically makes me a fan. The way Polpo gets murdered is so fantastically stupid and great as well. Why does peeling a banana and taking a bite convert to pulling the trigger of a gun? Who knows, who cares.
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Dec 9, 2021 01:06
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Kart Barfunkel posted:What I like about Giorno’s OP-ness is that it feels justified given that he’s clearly got a LOT of Dio in him. So when he gets godlike powers there’s this added layer of thinking “thank god he’s not *too* much like Dio”. The grey morality fits a mafia genre piece like a glove. Not enough DIO imo, I don't think a character has ever had so much told but not shown charisma as Giorno
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Dec 9, 2021 01:08
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MonsterEnvy posted:Well this is true, Doppio comes up with several of the plans they were making, he’s even the one who decides to alert Bruno’s group to them. Diavolo only loses after he ditches Doppio as well. The part with Bruno's group was a happy accident after Diavolo interrupted Doppio's original plan of waiting for an opening when Risotto was stealthing around him. Doppio had Risotto in his sights and would have won if Diavolo hadn't started panicking zetamind2000 fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 01:08
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Giorno's biggest influence is doobie
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Dec 9, 2021 01:11
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zetamind2000 posted:The part with Bruno's group was a happy accident after Diavolo interrupted Doppio's original plan of waiting for an opening when Risotto was stealthing around him. Doppio had Risotto in his sights and would have won if Diavolo hadn't started panicking This makes me more convinced that Diavolo losing should have been because of his own neuroses and because he's totally alone. Bruno's gang can win because they're loyal to and trust each other. Diavolo tore his gang apart because of the 1% chance that Trish would undo him and left the only person who was unconditionally loyal to him to die alone so he could chase godlike power. As soon as he can't win because of his stands bullshit, he should have started to fall apart.
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Dec 9, 2021 01:27
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The way to kill King Crimson is laying an irresistibly juicy-looking watermelon in Doppio's path that makes suspiciously gatling gun-like noises when handled. And get rid of Epitaph.
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Dec 9, 2021 01:31
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Nephthys posted:This makes me more convinced that Diavolo losing should have been because of his own neuroses and because he's totally alone. Bruno's gang can win because they're loyal to and trust each other. Diavolo tore his gang apart because of the 1% chance that Trish would undo him and left the only person who was unconditionally loyal to him to die alone so he could chase godlike power. As soon as he can't win because of his stands bullshit, he should have started to fall apart. I mean in the end Diavolo ultimately loses because Trish calls him a bitch and Diavolo, a grown-rear end man, decides to prove her wrong instead of, you know, run away.
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Dec 9, 2021 01:32
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tamami kobayashi would completely shut down king crimson.
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Dec 9, 2021 02:47
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| # ? May 26, 2024 19:04 |
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Diavolo could easily be killed via poison once you know who he is, or, if you feel particularly evil, shooting the building he's in with missiles. As far as King Crimson and Gold Experience go, yeah, the core rule is pretty simple, but both of them have very unclear rules regarding activation and details, and both of them frequently do things which, if they're broadly possible, they should probably do a lot more often. (King Crimson attacks someone in erased time... once. Giorno's animals perform complex behaviors that he absolutely had to have given to them... once.)
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Dec 9, 2021 03:21
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