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RC Cola posted:Balefire is my best friend y'all. I love Balefire It gets poo poo done. Actually didn't Rand balefire the darkhounds that spit on Mat and that returned time and basically saved him also?
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Dec 9, 2021 03:48
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Yes, but it didn't actually kill him so that doesn't count as one of his deaths. He just went from "fatal darkhound poisoning" to "red mark on hand".
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Dec 9, 2021 03:50
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Khizan posted:Yes, but it didn't actually kill him so that doesn't count as one of his deaths. He just went from "fatal darkhound poisoning" to "red mark on hand". What other red hands do we know of associated with him???
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Dec 9, 2021 03:53
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darkhounds were one of the few things where the actually recommend solution was balefire
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Dec 9, 2021 04:40
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we never saw what happens if you anti-balefire darkhounds do you? would they turn back into wolves?
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Dec 9, 2021 04:50
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Gnoman posted:Sanderson's said that he believed this was the case until Jordan told him directly that he was wrong. I uhhh... was under the impression that Sanderson never actually met RJ, and that the first he heard that he'd be continuing the series was when Harriet called him up and said RJ had thought he'd be a good candidate (or maybe he was entirely her idea). Or did they talk sometime prior to that going down, when it was just a fan-author or collegial dialogue thing?
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Dec 9, 2021 04:59
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Data Graham posted:I uhhh... was under the impression that Sanderson never actually met RJ, and that the first he heard that he'd be continuing the series was when Harriet called him up and said RJ had thought he'd be a good candidate (or maybe he was entirely her idea). The reason Sanderson can crank out so many books is because RoJo's horny old ghost won't leave him alone except when he's writing
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Dec 9, 2021 05:01
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Seems like the obvious solution to someone going hog wild with balefiring is to just balefire them as hard as possible.
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Dec 9, 2021 05:08
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Data Graham posted:I uhhh... was under the impression that Sanderson never actually met RJ, and that the first he heard that he'd be continuing the series was when Harriet called him up and said RJ had thought he'd be a good candidate (or maybe he was entirely her idea). No, they meant Team Jordan.
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Dec 9, 2021 05:09
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Data Graham posted:I uhhh... was under the impression that Sanderson never actually met RJ, and that the first he heard that he'd be continuing the series was when Harriet called him up and said RJ had thought he'd be a good candidate (or maybe he was entirely her idea). According to Sanderson they never met and Harriet asked to meet him based on a eulogy he wrote for Jordan that he'd posted online. That's the tldr version anyway, there are several YouTube clips where Sanderson goes into the full details of how he ended up writing the last three books.
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Dec 9, 2021 05:10
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:we never saw what happens if you anti-balefire darkhounds do you? would they turn back into wolves? FWIW my guess was that darkhounds, Shadowbrothers, are created with wolf souls that were doublekilled out of Tel'aran'rhiod, and that killing them restores them to the proper cycle of rebirth. e: Also, a lot of shadowspawn/blight/etc behavior seems to carry with them a lot of T'A'R or similar kind of dream logic. How would you even magic together a creature that T-1000s itself? VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 05:11
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Time to post this again. https://i.imgur.com/K2HxLhs.mp4
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Dec 9, 2021 05:11
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Data Graham posted:I uhhh... was under the impression that Sanderson never actually met RJ, and that the first he heard that he'd be continuing the series was when Harriet called him up and said RJ had thought he'd be a good candidate (or maybe he was entirely her idea). Sanderson talks about how got chosen in this video. Looks like it was Harriets idea after reading his eulogy for RJ. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MITTIur3Ytk
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Dec 9, 2021 05:53
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Rarity posted:Shadow Rising Oooh are we doing this again? Lord of Chaos The shadow rising A crown of swords Knife of dreams Fires of Heaven Path of daggers Winter’s Heart Eye of the World Crossroads of twilight The dragon reborn The great hunt A memory of light Towers of midnight The gathering storm Fite me
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Dec 9, 2021 06:02
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So in my reread, I'm at Winter's Heart and when Tylin returns early she says it's because Suroth heard about an entire army vanishing in Murandy. Was that the army Rand blasted with Callandor? I'm not sure those timelines (or locations) match up, but I can't think of any other on screen battles that would account for it
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Dec 9, 2021 06:14
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The Lord Bude posted:Oooh are we doing this again? Big book of art Everything else
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Dec 9, 2021 06:21
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shrike82 posted:I don’t think Sanderson’s a good writer - it’s more obvious when you read his series. I would have preferred it if RJ had written the final few books but I guess what we got was competent? I don’t really think we were in any real danger of a GRRM situation we came within a hairs' breadth of a literal GRRM situation, he was Harriet's initial first choice to finish the series but she decided against asking him because she thought his fans would riot. Rarity posted:Jordan's style was insanely verbose, the reason the Slog is such a slog is cause he spends paragraphs descibing fine details on how women are doing laundry and poo poo like that. Sanderson dumped that poo poo and made the last 3 books much smoother reads the verbosity is a big part of why I love Jordan's books so much, and why I like the later books in the series so much, I love being immersed in this massive world with tons of characters and all the detail in the setting. I like all the little moments like people musing over tea and fashions. Sanderson's work felt like reading some kid's book report on the last 3 books instead of the books themselves, entirely apart from oddities like mat being a totally different character and androl and the rules lawyering d&d approach to combat and channelling. Pleads posted:My counter-argument is that the verbosity is way better for the audiobooks, because Sanderson's exchanges sound absolutely miserable when read aloud. Oh this too, absolutely. Sanderson loves massive passages of dialogue back and forths and it reads like a 10 year old writing a story. Jordan had much less direct dialogue and it was always interspersed with internal monologue. There is an excellent entry in Neuxue's readthrough blog where she addresses this directly and rewrites a passage from I think either TGS or TOM in the way she thought Jordan might have written it and it's so much better. silvergoose posted:What other red hands do we know of associated with him??? Nynaeve likely got a red hand more than once from all the times she had to spank him as a kid.
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Dec 9, 2021 06:29
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withak posted:Seems like the obvious solution to someone going hog wild with balefiring is to just balefire them as hard as possible. If it were me and I saw any tearing of the fabric of reality due to balefire, I would simply balefire the tears in reality so they wouldn't have happened
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Dec 9, 2021 06:30
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man, GRRM being tasked to finish WOT and failing to make headway on that too would have been nuts
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Dec 9, 2021 07:28
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The Lord Bude posted:we came within a hairs' breadth of a literal GRRM situation, he was Harriet's initial first choice to finish the series ahaha
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Dec 9, 2021 09:24
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GRRM would have just said no, right?
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Dec 9, 2021 09:37
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Sinteres posted:GRRM would have just said no, right? He wouldn't have hesitated at the chance to lovingly describe a Tairen swamp.
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Dec 9, 2021 09:42
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I've always wondered if the back half lull happened in WoT because Jordan just naturally got bogged down with all the balls he was juggling (speaking of GRRM) and had a harder time cutting through to the important bits, or if it was a deliberate choice to keep printing money and Tor either agreed or didn't disagree enough to make an issue over it. The real answer's probably a little bit of each, but when I was younger I pretty much flat out assumed it was the second reason. GRRM completely failing to write anything in a decade has made me more sympathetic to the idea that writing epic series is really hard though (even if he's obviously distracted by other poo poo too). I still think the books got a little too caught up in every lord being a cynical schemer who wasn't just trying to position themselves for the day after the Last Battle but didn't give a poo poo if their scheming blew everything up before the Last Battle either.
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Dec 9, 2021 09:46
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From what I've read regarding the structure and length: RJ's initial pitch was for 3 books, Tom Doherty said: I'll take 6. AMOL was supposed to be one book but ended up being 3.
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Dec 9, 2021 11:36
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Data Graham posted:I uhhh... was under the impression that Sanderson never actually met RJ, and that the first he heard that he'd be continuing the series was when Harriet called him up and said RJ had thought he'd be a good candidate (or maybe he was entirely her idea). He might have been referring to Jordan's notes.
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Dec 9, 2021 11:48
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Gnoman posted:He might have been referring to Jordan's notes. Sanderson never met RJ. He saw him from a distance at a convention once but was too awed/scared to approach him, then he passed away. Sanderson wrote a eulogy type thing on his blog and somebody showed it to Harriet. Harriet called Tom Doherty the head of TOR and said: hey what do you know of this young author? Send me something of his, so Doherty sent her Mistborn and she read it. She liked it then called Brandon and that was that. RJ did not want to choose someone himself to finish the series because it felt like confronting his own mortality, admitting he was gonna die. Jordan had extensive notes and materials regarding AMOL and the entire world plus his assistant Maria is like a walking WOT encyclopedia too. Hexel fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 11:55
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The Lord Bude posted:the verbosity is a big part of why I love Jordan's books so much, and why I like the later books in the series so much, I love being immersed in this massive world with tons of characters and all the detail in the setting. I like all the little moments like people musing over tea and fashions. The issue I always had with this style of Jordan's was that you'd get these pages of pages of internal monologue in massive unbroken blocks with no cues to reorient yourself as to the speaker. Many times I'd find myself like six paragraphs into some monolithic wall-of-text of someone thinking about someone else's plans or grumbling about their motivations or whatever, and I'd have to flip back like a page or two to figure out who the hell was talking. I can't even imagine how that would work in an audiobook. I'd be hitting that -15s button so much I'd wear it out somehow
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Dec 9, 2021 12:40
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Data Graham posted:I can't even imagine how that would work in an audiobook. I'd be hitting that -15s button so much I'd wear it out somehow It's honestly easier to track who is saying what in most audiobooks because the narrator generally uses a different voice for each character. With a lot of the audiobooks I have you could clip out a short phrase like "thank you" with no context whatsoever and I could tell you which character said it just based on the voice. Edit: Upon rereading your post you were talking about internal monologue and not dialogue. Oops.
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Dec 9, 2021 12:47
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Less than 12 hours until the next episode drops awoooooo can't wait!
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Dec 9, 2021 13:14
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Sinteres posted:I've always wondered if the back half lull happened in WoT because Jordan just naturally got bogged down with all the balls he was juggling (speaking of GRRM) and had a harder time cutting through to the important bits, or if it was a deliberate choice to keep printing money and Tor either agreed or didn't disagree enough to make an issue over it. The real answer's probably a little bit of each, but when I was younger I pretty much flat out assumed it was the second reason. GRRM completely failing to write anything in a decade has made me more sympathetic to the idea that writing epic series is really hard though (even if he's obviously distracted by other poo poo too). I still think the books got a little too caught up in every lord being a cynical schemer who wasn't just trying to position themselves for the day after the Last Battle but didn't give a poo poo if their scheming blew everything up before the Last Battle either. Wasn't there a theory that Jordan was padding out the middle because Harriet was having health issues at the time?
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Dec 9, 2021 13:20
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Sinteres posted:I've always wondered if the back half lull happened in WoT because Jordan just naturally got bogged down with all the balls he was juggling (speaking of GRRM) and had a harder time cutting through to the important bits, or if it was a deliberate choice to keep printing money and Tor either agreed or didn't disagree enough to make an issue over it. The real answer's probably a little bit of each, but when I was younger I pretty much flat out assumed it was the second reason. GRRM completely failing to write anything in a decade has made me more sympathetic to the idea that writing epic series is really hard though (even if he's obviously distracted by other poo poo too). I still think the books got a little too caught up in every lord being a cynical schemer who wasn't just trying to position themselves for the day after the Last Battle but didn't give a poo poo if their scheming blew everything up before the Last Battle either. It was that he got bogged down (and maybe a little bored with the main storyline). Or at least that's my take, anyway. There's a few reasons I think this: 1) Anyone who talked to him in that time period and asked him about it, he'd talk about how he had more ideas for books than he had time to write them, and then he'd start talking about how he wanted to write the Mat/Tuon "outrigger" novels etc. He didn't need to pad things out; at that point he was printing money regardless and he had plenty of ideas for other things to write. "I feel like padding this out" doesn't fit, but maybe "I'd rather write a bit about Morgase than do another Elayne chapter right now" might fit better. I don't think it was deliberate padding but it might have been distraction. 2) Pretty much every book in the whole series has a basic structure of "things happen at the beginning" "kinda boring middle that sets up the end" "big dramatic ending." It makes sense that the series as a whole would have that same structure also. Good books to kick things off, some relatively humdrum books in the middle to get all the pieces in place for the ending, big cataclysmic ending with fireworks. There are some other things that may have played into it though. One big one was time pressure. He had The Great Hunt already written when Eye was published. After that it took him about a year or two to write each book, and over time he lost his lead, and during the slog there was sometimes as little as a month total time between "finished draft" and "books in stores." So I suspect the "slog" books just had less editing time. DarkHorse posted:Wasn't there a theory that Jordan was padding out the middle because Harriet was having health issues at the time? This doesn't quite fit to my mind -- I really doubt medical bills as such were an issue -- but she *was* having health problems around that time so was probably less able to help with the editing. People make a lot of "lol his wife is his editor" jokes but Harriett is absurdly intelligent and very actively helped with the earlier books and with the last few.
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Dec 9, 2021 14:01
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Data Graham posted:The issue I always had with this style of Jordan's was that you'd get these pages of pages of internal monologue in massive unbroken blocks with no cues to reorient yourself as to the speaker. Many times I'd find myself like six paragraphs into some monolithic wall-of-text of someone thinking about someone else's plans or grumbling about their motivations or whatever, and I'd have to flip back like a page or two to figure out who the hell was talking. You couldn't keep track of which PoV you were in? How does that even happen? it's not like he skipped around constantly; Jordan almost never changed PoVs within the same chapter. Do you read books one paragraph at a time and then put them down for a week or something? I've never listened to an audiobook but I could kinda see it if you were breaking the book up into chunks of a few mins at a time as you were driving or doing something that demanded part of your attention but I've never been into that, If I'm reading a book that's the only thing I'm focusing on.
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Dec 9, 2021 14:23
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Yeah, I just finished Eye and I can't think of a single time he head-hopped within a chapter. In later books, he does occasionally...but there's always a clear break when the switch happens.
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Dec 9, 2021 14:37
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Even as "early" as Lord of Chaos there are chapters with 4 viewpoints in them, but it's never really quickly back and forth, for sure.
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Dec 9, 2021 14:43
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The Lord Bude posted:You couldn't keep track of which PoV you were in? How does that even happen? it's not like he skipped around constantly; Jordan almost never changed PoVs within the same chapter. Do you read books one paragraph at a time and then put them down for a week or something? I think they mean "POV" as in which of the 2 characters participating in the conversation is actively talking for the given paragraph, not who "the main character of the chapter is". I definitely have this issue too. And yea audiobooks for me for a series like this was a terrible idea because I'd tune out during those overly long passages describing skirts, spankings, or general "harrumph! men/women are so insufferable!" sentiments every single character spends pages monologueing about, then something important actually happens and I miss it.
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Dec 9, 2021 14:57
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E: ^^ Yeah, that
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Dec 9, 2021 14:58
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Yeah I am the same, after a paragraph of description of teas and embroidery and social customs (all of which I enjoy!) and then see a bit of dialogue I may very well have forgotten which party is supposed to be the one speaking. And subtext is so incredibly important that misattributing a response from one person to the other can have huge implications
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Dec 9, 2021 15:17
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Calenth posted:
One problem might be he habitually did not hand anything over to Harriet until his own 10th draft or more.
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Dec 9, 2021 15:30
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Sab669 posted:I think they mean "POV" as in which of the 2 characters participating in the conversation is actively talking for the given paragraph, not who "the main character of the chapter is". I definitely have this issue too. removing all those has made the show a tad faster paced
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Dec 9, 2021 15:33
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ChubbyChecker posted:removing all those has made the show a tad faster paced Too bad they wasted all that saved time by spending half an episode on sad warder
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Dec 9, 2021 16:02
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