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The power of diavolo isn't in the stand's power but in his position as the araki's attempt at making keyser soze
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Dec 9, 2021 03:32
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I remember that when I was reading SBR, I felt like Marco's death made perfect sense thematically. I think it was something about how even if you ultimately fail to make a visible difference, the fact that you tried and the effort you put in still has meaning. It's been a while though so I'm not sure if that was exactly it. I should reread SBR.
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Dec 9, 2021 04:48
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Rand Brittain posted:(King Crimson attacks someone in erased time... once. If Diavolo was not a moron, every encounter should've ended with time skip -> fist through the chest.
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Dec 9, 2021 04:49
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fractalairduct posted:I remember that when I was reading SBR, I felt like Marco's death made perfect sense thematically. I think it was something about how even if you ultimately fail to make a visible difference, the fact that you tried and the effort you put in still has meaning. It's been a while though so I'm not sure if that was exactly it. sbr is my favorite part
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Dec 9, 2021 05:17
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Darko posted:It's not even that. JoJos has definitive souls. It's like the ending of What Dreams May come where, spoilers, the lead decides he'd rather be reincarnated and meet his soulmate again because that would be the more interesting journey for him - being able to live and fall in love all over again. And knowing Araki, he watched that, so yeah. I hope I'm not misremembering it but I thought, pretty explicitly, the people who died no longer existed before the time acceleration and their souls didn't transmigrate. That's like, the first thing Pucci says -- he can win so long as he killed everyone who tried to stop him before he accelerated time because this new universe won't carry their souls and there will be no one to stop him. That's why he stops to try to take out Emporio (and Weather Report, I suppose) because they're the only transmigrated souls to come over to try to stop him (and the only ones besides Pucci who could affect the "fate" he was creating). Do their souls come back in the second reset or something? Seems like it'd be the souls of the "new" doppelgangers who survived the second transmigration since dead is dead. Otherwise Pucci would come to exist in the new universe, too. It's why killing him was the saving grace. Fully willing to accept a correction on the logistics here since that entire final series of explanations was weird in and of itself. I just distinctly remembered Pucci's whole "THEIR SOULS ARE loving DEAD SO I WIN EXCEPT YOU EMPORIO" spiel. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 05:36
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Pucci killed them so their souls didn't go to the next world that was statistically the same as the old one but without those characters. Pucci was not alive to make sure that they stayed out for the 2nd reset. He died while it the fast forward was seeking through time for the next viable universe and it ended up being one without him because he died so his soul didn't carry over but the other souls had a chance to reappear.
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Dec 9, 2021 05:48
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Avdol could have beaten diavolo if the stars aligned. Josuke also has the potential to get diavolo into a trap that epitaph wouldn't pick up on until it was too late or do a double bluff where diavolo skips over one trap but gets hosed up by the second while he's on time skip cool down. Koichi could also make life very difficult for diavolo Also polnareff if silver chariot had taken off it's armor would have gotten diavolo good in the colossus.
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Dec 9, 2021 06:09
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Come to think of it, diavolo would get his poo poo wrecked if he tried to gently caress with morioh
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Dec 9, 2021 06:16
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Diavolo would have loved having Aya Tsuji around
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Dec 9, 2021 06:21
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Stairmaster posted:Come to think of it, diavolo would get his poo poo wrecked if he tried to gently caress with morioh Not just Part 4 Morioh, he sends all of his non-Doppio orders through the internet so Paisley Park would find him easily and he can't skip past Go Beyond because it doesn't exist zetamind2000 fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 06:28
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Stairmaster posted:Come to think of it, diavolo would get his poo poo wrecked if he tried to gently caress with morioh Morioh just makes an excellent setting for Stand chaos. Part 3 and 5 feature people selected specifically for their Stand powers, who tend to be professional killers. Their Stands are usually suited to violence, and they know how to use them. Morioh is just "Keicho has spent the last year indiscriminately giving random people superpowers." I have no idea how many people in Morioh have Stands by now. There could be dozens we never saw. Imagine the weirdest person you ever knew in your hometown. They can now see through any plastic googly eyes in a 100 meter range. There's a janitor who can remove friction. That Guy On The Bus can now knit prophecies into a scarf. None of these people know what's happening or why. God I want to see Diavolo get own by, I don't know, the paper-scissor-rock kid.
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Dec 9, 2021 06:57
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Is there a limit to what Rohan can even write in someone? His only real weakness is he gets too curious and focused on one specific thing it screws him over
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Dec 9, 2021 07:02
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bobjr posted:Is there a limit to what Rohan can even write in someone? Depending on how cynical you are about religion, Rohan either made a determination on the final resting place for Cheap Trick's soul independently of God or straight up created Hell just to send Cheap Trick there. So probably not!
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Dec 9, 2021 07:36
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Honestly, I wouldn't even be that disappointed with Part 5's ending if it wasn't THAT loaded with bullshit. Its biggest issue is that it introduces about a billion concepts and barely explains them. No one from the group reaches the conclusion that Requiem is a shadow that fucks with your vision. Not even Diavolo explains that when he does that ridiculous sun-punching thing. The whole evolution subplot is basically worthless. Isn't there a moment where the arrow straight-up falls through Diavolo, too? And then he decides not to run away because he's called a coward. Of course, it would be even better if instead of soul sniffing and body-switching our heroes would devise an all-out attack that would pin King Crimson in an unwinnable situation. Perhaps Narancia would die during it making his death scene not garbage, too.
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Dec 9, 2021 07:55
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I like how GER's power is just a neverending version of the life punch. e: not the whole it ignoring king crimson thing to defend giorno, the infinite death thing FirstAidKite fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 07:59
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My interpretation of the end of part 6 was that since Made in Heaven was dead its rules no longer applied so when the universe gets reset Jolyne and the group just reincarnat normaly and ~fate~ brings them all together again. So bittersweet not pointless.
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Dec 9, 2021 17:19
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Funky Valentine posted:King Crimson is portrayed as being physically much stronger than most Stands, being able to do in one punch what Star Platinum needs ten to do. Star Platinum is the "strongest" Stand; Jotaro just wants to put people out of commission/make them suffer/whatever. Diavolo is typically just TOO paranoid which matches his Epitaph part of his Stand and is his entire schtick - if he thinks there's the slightest bit of uncertainty, he just stays hidden and won't attack which goes hand in hand with his precog. Remember when he first appeared, he stayed away from Giorno because he had no idea what his Stand did and didn't want to risk anything at all. He's actually a hard counter for Star Platinum because he would just jump ahead of Jotaro activating the timestop (from his perspective, he'd see himself get ORAed 10 seconds in the future and skip it and go somewhere else), but funnily, he'd probably lose to DIO because his whole "punch through people" attack wouldn't work on DIO and would probably get him killed.
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Dec 9, 2021 17:29
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FirstAidKite posted:Pucci killed them so their souls didn't go to the next world that was statistically the same as the old one but without those characters. This doesn't seem to track with anything that happens, though I shouldn't be surprised at inconsistency in the narrative with Jojo in general. It's not like there's actually any concrete mechanics on how Made In Heaven's universe acceleration actually worked. Just Pucci yelling about things. Darko posted:Star Platinum is the "strongest" Stand; Jotaro just wants to put people out of commission/make them suffer/whatever. Getting punched really hard by a very strong Stand is actually the only thing that's ever been effective at taking down Dio. And, ostensibly, King Crimson hits harder than Star Platinum. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 18:22
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Darko posted:Star Platinum is the "strongest" Stand; Jotaro just wants to put people out of commission/make them suffer/whatever. Punching clean through Dio would put him out of commission for a while since his body still mostly works as normal. It's pretty hard to move when you're missing a good chunk of your spine. Jotaro would eat poo poo though unless he really pushed his timestop way longer than he otherwise does. My main problem with KC is that it looks kind of goofy with its forehead face. The scene with Bruno really sells the terror of fighting basically The World but better but its appearance doesn't really back it up.
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Dec 9, 2021 18:27
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I figured it was that when Emporio killed Pucci mid-loop and he got erased from the timeline, the thing causing the timeline reset was itself reset, causing a weird retcon-of-a-retcon creating some hosed up bizarro universe that didn't quite make ANY sense
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Dec 9, 2021 18:30
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I absolutely love KC's goofy angry forehead face. A stand so angry it needs two faces to properly convey how HNNNNNNNG SO ANGY it is
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Dec 9, 2021 18:39
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Yeah, the best thing about King Crimson is easily its design. That very angry face is iconic.
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Dec 9, 2021 18:45
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Can’t beat Shizuka Joestar if you can’t see where she is.
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Dec 9, 2021 18:54
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bobjr posted:Can’t beat Shizuka Joestar if you can’t see where she is. I’ll always be bummed that she didn’t get to be in the story any after Part 4, that we know of.
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Dec 9, 2021 19:09
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Momomo posted:Yeah, the best thing about King Crimson is easily its design. That very angry face is iconic. 
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Dec 9, 2021 19:13
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Getting punched really hard by a very strong Stand is actually the only thing that's ever been effective at taking down Dio. And, ostensibly, King Crimson hits harder than Star Platinum. Part 3 DIO gets his head smashed and can have limbs chopped off and put them back on. Part 1 DIO is cut in half and puts himself back together. I'm still not quite sure how getting punched on his Stands left leg makes him explode at the end, even with his left side weakness, but whatever - that's yet another weird Araki ending (I think he was saying DIO's spirit got weakened too, but who knows). Araki has said Star Platinum is the strongest Stand in Part 6 but that could be a translation thing since he could be talking about the combination of speed/strength/ability.
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Dec 9, 2021 19:43
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Yeah, it's really weird how DIO is all "Haha, I'm stronger than I've ever been before.", but he is able to take less hits in his super mode than he was beforehand. 
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Dec 9, 2021 19:46
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Darko posted:Part 3 DIO gets his head smashed and can have limbs chopped off and put them back on. Part 1 DIO is cut in half and puts himself back together. I'm still not quite sure how getting punched on his Stands left leg makes him explode at the end, even with his left side weakness, but whatever - that's yet another weird Araki ending (I think he was saying DIO's spirit got weakened too, but who knows). I think that's largely tied to Jotaro's success as a Stand User. But the entire point of King Crimson's ridiculous abilities was Araki trying to think of something more powerful/dynamic than Time Stop powers.
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Dec 9, 2021 19:47
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wait shouldn't either timestopper gently caress king crimson up since he'd see the future where he was alive one second and then dead the next within a 10s timespan with no indication of what happened on top of wild poo poo like pt3 jotaro being able to catch point blank bullets and technically swing faster than the speed of light since it's faster or just as fast as silver chariot the stuff they pull really makes the pt3 chars really ridiculous relative to the future versions of themselves anyways besides power level stuff, im curious how the pacing for pt6s ending will go because that entire ending stretch after jotaro returns feels really badly paced, which is a big part of why it's kinda the worst part of the arc outside of the intro. the anime was able to handle/fix the pacing of the pt6 intro really dragging but the ending kinda has the other problem where things really shift into hyperspeed and poo poo just kinda starts happening which really makes the actual conclusion feel more unsatisfying Fereydun fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 20:02
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Darko posted:Part 3 DIO gets his head smashed and can have limbs chopped off and put them back on. Part 1 DIO is cut in half and puts himself back together. I'm still not quite sure how getting punched on his Stands left leg makes him explode at the end, even with his left side weakness, but whatever - that's yet another weird Araki ending (I think he was saying DIO's spirit got weakened too, but who knows). "Stand takes damage = User takes damage" trumps Vampire Immortality I guess. Dude got punched in the soul so hard it shattered, regeneration ain't gonna fix that. It does make me wonder how the Stand Arrow's "either it kills you or it gives you a Stand" deal interacts with vampirism. Like is whatever magic mojo it uses to kill people something Dio would always survive and thus it's forced to give him a Stand by default, or was there a legit risk when he used it that it would just insta-kill him regardless? We know that Crazy Diamond can heal a lethal Arrow shot and it then just gives you a crap Stand because it has no choice, but Crazy Diamond bullshit is a league beyond Stone Mask bullshit.
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Dec 9, 2021 20:08
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Yeah, it's really weird how DIO is all "Haha, I'm stronger than I've ever been before.", but he is able to take less hits in his super mode than he was beforehand. The man was an arrogance elemental. He could've easily beaten Jotaro if he didn't monologue for the majority of his stopped time. It's a good thing for him vampires have perfect body control since that's probably the only way to shove your head up your own rear end that far. That's one of my favorite things with the Dio fight. He'll talk for 20 seconds and then exclaim "3 seconds have passed!" No they loving haven't. Times 5, maybe. It's the extreme version of every character being able to think 100 words during a punch.
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Dec 9, 2021 20:12
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Brandfarlig posted:Jotaro would eat poo poo though unless he really pushed his timestop way longer than he otherwise does. It would make difference how long he made his time stop. Diavolo would suddenly see himself having gotten his rear end kicked, or with a hole in his chest if he was fighting DIO, and just skip past that event and postion himself behind Jotaro or DIO and attack them. Fereydun posted:wait shouldn't either timestopper gently caress king crimson up since he'd see the future where he was alive one second and then dead the next within a 10s timespan with no indication of what happened Yes he would see it happen in the future and then skip past it, it's a pretty hard counter. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 20:34
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It would depend on how King Crimson decided its power works at that particular second. If Jotaro stopped time during the timeskip, would the timestop be skipped, or would Jotaro just stop time again immediately because it didn't "happen" from his perspective and to him he was always about to stop time? If it's the latter Diavolo's kinda hosed.
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Dec 9, 2021 20:38
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He'd come out of the timeskip wondering why time didn't stop, and then would try to stop time again but not be able to because it's on cooldown
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Dec 9, 2021 20:39
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:He'd come out of the timeskip wondering why time didn't stop, and then would try to stop time again but not be able to because it's on cooldown I wasn't aware it worked on MMO rules. Also I feel like Jotaro has absolutely stopped time twice within ten seconds before.
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Dec 9, 2021 20:40
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He has to wait for his stamina to regen to use it again. The times he timestopped twice within 10 seconds was because he was had a stam regen+ buff
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Dec 9, 2021 20:44
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Jotaro needs to pump his Endurance stat
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Dec 9, 2021 20:45
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MonsterEnvy posted:It would make difference how long he made his time stop. Diavolo would suddenly see himself having gotten his rear end kicked, or with a hole in his chest if he was fighting DIO, and just skip past that event and postion himself behind Jotaro or DIO and attack them. Diavolos future sight is 10 seconds, right? If someone could stop time for longer than that he'd just cut to the last second or two of the timestop and get owned. If you put Diavolo in a sufficiently large building that's on fire he couldn't skip getting burned either since he can't get out in 10 seconds.
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Dec 9, 2021 20:46
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MonsterEnvy posted:. like if he sees himself with a hole in his stomach where dio or jotaro just teleport in range and then he's instantly dead with no perception of how that happened how does he escape that situation or if they're already in attack range and there's no attack to see to reposition around like the dude opening dios coffin the perception is just "wait why am i in the coffin" from an outsiders view except being dead why do i get the feeling this is one of the Ancient Power Level discussions
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Dec 9, 2021 20:58
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| # ? May 23, 2024 15:36 |
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Two Tone Shoes posted:This doesn't seem to track with anything that happens, though I shouldn't be surprised at inconsistency in the narrative with Jojo in general. It's not like there's actually any concrete mechanics on how Made In Heaven's universe acceleration actually worked. Just Pucci yelling about things. Pucci yelling about how it works is the concrete mechanics on how it works. He wasn't just pulling stuff out of his rear end.
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Dec 9, 2021 21:03
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