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Devorum posted:If only they had multiple people capable of using magic to cut through stone and move heavy objects. Not sure even a full circle could lift that - the books explicitly say that lifting something with the power although simple requires a ton of power that gets exponentially larger as the weight increases - Most Aes Sedai aren't powerful enough to lift an adult for reference.
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Dec 12, 2021 18:33
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Devorum posted:If only they had multiple people capable of using magic to cut through stone and move heavy objects. It's another symptom of how dysfunctional Elaida's Tower has become. Elaida herself just waves her hand and says "someone fix it" because she's too wrapped up in her own stuff to care, and the divisions between the Ajahs have gotten so bad that no one is willing to go out and dedicate herself to fixing it.
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Dec 12, 2021 18:33
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Gwaihir posted:
REAL ULTIMATE POWER
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Dec 12, 2021 18:36
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Not when you have the true power!
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The Lord Bude posted:Not sure even a full circle could lift that - the books explicitly say that lifting something with the power although simple requires a ton of power that gets exponentially larger as the weight increases - Most Aes Sedai aren't powerful enough to lift an adult for reference. It's already on the water. All they have to do is put it on a barge and tow it somewhere. It might actually be lighter as Cuendillar than as iron.
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Dec 12, 2021 18:38
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Gwaihir posted:
The true power can effect it? I did not know that.
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Dec 12, 2021 18:39
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What happens if you weave the true power and the one power together?
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Dec 12, 2021 18:40
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RandolphCarter posted:The true power can effect it? I did not know that. That's how he destroys the domination bands when Semirhage traps him, yup.
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Dec 12, 2021 18:41
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Gwaihir posted:That's how he destroys the domination bands when Semirhage traps him, yup. The true power is also how the seals were destroyed letting the dark one touch the world
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Dec 12, 2021 18:44
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's already on the water. All they have to do is put it on a barge and tow it somewhere. it would still be an enormous undertaking in a society with that tech level. First they have to cut it down by breaking away at the harbour walls at each end (shouldn't be too hard with the power) but then I don't imagine it floats so they have to haul it out of the water somehow to get it on the barge (are there even boats in existence capable of carrying an object that massive/heavy?). I guess they could just drag it using a bunch of boats but I have no idea how easily that could be done. We're talking about a length of metal that is probably the better part of a mile in length, probably as thick as a person.
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Dec 12, 2021 18:46
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Nitrousoxide posted:The true power is also how the seals were destroyed letting the dark one touch the world But the True Power IS the dark one? I thought the seals were weakening over time because it was an imperfect seal.
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Dec 12, 2021 18:47
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oh hey here is an interesting discussion on the subject: http://13depository.blogspot.com/2002/03/egwene-leane-and-harbour-chains.html
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Dec 12, 2021 18:48
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Gwaihir posted:That's how he destroys the domination bands when Semirhage traps him, yup. Oh yeah, man I need to read the series again
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Dec 12, 2021 18:49
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The Lord Bude posted:We're talking about a length of metal that is probably the better part of a mile in length, probably as thick as a person. According to the map scale from the books, north harbor is 1/2 a mile wide. And yea, it's probably lighter now than it was when it was iron.
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Dec 12, 2021 18:50
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's already on the water. All they have to do is put it on a barge and tow it somewhere. I, um. Even assuming you could easily find a barge half a mile long, with nothing but wind and oar propulsion you aren't moving that chain anywhere fast, if at all.
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Dec 12, 2021 18:54
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Just form a circle and open a massive gateway, or divert the river. I am working on very shaky memories so who knows if these are viable.
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Dec 12, 2021 19:00
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At that point in the books I don't think the tower Aes Sedai even knew how to travel. So gateways were right out. Sounds like something Androl did in AMoL though to save Elayne's army.
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Dec 12, 2021 19:04
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I, um. Even assuming you could easily find a barge half a mile long, with nothing but wind and oar propulsion you aren't moving that chain anywhere fast, if at all. You don't need one barge to hold all of it.
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Dec 12, 2021 19:13
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Barges to hold it are the least of the problem. Oh, though I didn't think of using the Power to generate a steady wind for towing, admittedly
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Dec 12, 2021 19:15
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CainFortea posted:According to the map scale from the books, north harbor is 1/2 a mile wide. And yea, it's probably lighter now than it was when it was iron. The chain needs to be quite a bit longer than the width of the harbour so it can be lowered and sink to the bottom.
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Dec 12, 2021 19:26
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The Lord Bude posted:The chain needs to be quite a bit longer than the width of the harbour so it can be lowered and sink to the bottom. Depends on the depth really. I mean, the Evergiven has a draught of 52 feet at max load. So even if northharbor has enough depth to allow a modern huge container ship to float in it, you only need to add like 200 feet of length
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Dec 12, 2021 19:33
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The Lord Bude posted:Not sure even a full circle could lift that - the books explicitly say that lifting something with the power although simple requires a ton of power that gets exponentially larger as the weight increases - Most Aes Sedai aren't powerful enough to lift an adult for reference. I'm pretty sure that multiple circles of 72 with all the angreal and sa'angreal the Tower has could lift it. Not like they'd have to go far...just plant it next the harbor pointing straight up and call it a monument. They're no longer limited to 13 women.
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Dec 12, 2021 19:34
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it isn't complex labor so they'd actually be stronger unlinked, just all the different people independently going "Up!" Hell you could use physical labor. Ropes and pulleys etc.
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Dec 12, 2021 19:36
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You'd just have to dislodge one end and let water do its thing. Dredging will become harder
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Dec 12, 2021 19:38
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I think this is the only thread on the forums where a two page turbonerd derail of this pettiness is actively welcomed I reckon it could easily be moved by barges, especially if you could supplement the natural current with augmented weaves of water 
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Dec 12, 2021 19:44
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Devorum posted:I'm pretty sure that multiple circles of 72 with all the angreal and sa'angreal the Tower has could lift it. Not like they'd have to go far...just plant it next the harbor pointing straight up and call it a monument. as if the tower aes sedai would ever lower themselves to working with *sniff* men!
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Dec 12, 2021 19:46
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Is...is this the Tar Valon Ever Given?
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Dec 12, 2021 19:48
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Couldn't you cut it by closing gateways on it? If not, does that mean you could make permanent gates by giving them cuendillar doorframes?
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Dec 12, 2021 19:49
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Well now some dummy thick white chains will show up on the internet
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Dec 12, 2021 19:50
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Ardlen posted:Couldn't you cut it by closing gateways on it? If not, does that mean you could make permanent gates by giving them cuendillar doorframes?
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Dec 12, 2021 19:51
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CuriousSymptoms posted:I think this is the only thread on the forums where a two page turbonerd derail of this pettiness is actively welcomed The river current might well provide enough impetus, provided you don't care too much where it winds up (which may include blocking the river further down), but this is going to mean whichever chain is upriver is going to be all but impossible to move, since not only do you need to move the weight of the chain and barge, but also make headway against a strong river current without motorised propulsion Either way, it's a nightmare scenario for the captains involved and I doubt they'd be overly happy about risking their ships
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Dec 12, 2021 19:51
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Is the teleporting painting in the book? I can't remember.
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Dec 12, 2021 20:09
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Nope. It's not an awful way of introducing the concept of ter'angreal nor tel aran rhiod, though.
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Dec 12, 2021 20:10
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I don't have the screenshot but someone posted that x-ray confirms it's not T'A'R but a ter'angreal that travels them to Siuan's shack in Tear.
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Dec 12, 2021 20:16
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Mega Comrade posted:Is the teleporting painting in the book? I can't remember. No there is no teleporting painting in the book.
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Dec 12, 2021 20:18
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CuriousSymptoms posted:I think this is the only thread on the forums where a two page turbonerd derail of this pettiness is actively welcomed The laws of physics literally do not exist in Rand land. Build a pulley system, suspend it in the air on something you magic up and tie a rope to one end of the thingy, then open a gateway from the river to the top of a water wheel which cranks the pulley system. The thing's unbreakable, so there's no OSHA violation to stand it on end so long as proper support exists so it doesn't blow over. Then open a gateway at the bottom, which opens up over the ocean (or over your worst enemy). Problem solved. I'm pretty sure I did this exact thing in Factorio not too long ago.
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Dec 12, 2021 20:24
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The Lord Bude posted:it would still be an enormous undertaking in a society with that tech level. The walls with winches that move the chain were reinforced with the power though. The link someone posted gives a direct quote, but those wards hadn't failed and so an Aes Sedai had to go out there and spend a lot of time and effort just to get it to where workers could actually do something about it. With all the issues in the tower at the time no one wanted to do it, and so it was very, very slow going.
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Dec 12, 2021 20:48
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Dr. Clockwork posted:I don't have the screenshot but someone posted that x-ray confirms it's not T'A'R but a ter'angreal that travels them to Siuan's shack in Tear. It is really strange though that, with the Tower not knowing about Traveling or even Skimming yet, those paintings are the only safe method of faster-than-horse travel that Aes Sedai have access to, and they're just used for quick access to the Seat's personal hookup spot. Like it really reflects super badly on Siuan if she's comfortable keeping such a huge tool and research priority completely hidden away from everyone else. It's like if Alexander Graham Bell only ever bothered to build two telephones in secret, which he used exclusively to call up his mistress.
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Dec 12, 2021 20:57
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seaborgium posted:The walls with winches that move the chain were reinforced with the power though. The link someone posted gives a direct quote, but those wards hadn't failed and so an Aes Sedai had to go out there and spend a lot of time and effort just to get it to where workers could actually do something about it. With all the issues in the tower at the time no one wanted to do it, and so it was very, very slow going. There is something very funny to me about the idea of this ongoing administrative and logistical public infrastructure nightmare in the post-Last-Battle world. Tar Valon news vendors carrying tedious reports of the latest Aes Sedai Wall Committee minutes, as local civic leaders insist that 'something must be done' while taking backhanders to ensure that it isn't
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Dec 12, 2021 21:00
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Hargrimm posted:It is really strange though that, with the Tower not knowing about Traveling or even Skimming yet, those paintings are the only safe method of faster-than-horse travel that Aes Sedai have access to, and they're just used for quick access to the Seat's personal hookup spot. Like it really reflects super badly on Siuan if she's comfortable keeping such a huge tool and research priority completely hidden away from everyone else. It's like if Alexander Graham Bell only ever bothered to build two telephones in secret, which he used exclusively to call up his mistress. It's less about using them for secret sexy times and more about being able to secretly commuincate with her conspirator about their attempts to find the Dragon for the Last Battle. The secret sexy times are a bonus
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Dec 12, 2021 21:13
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Part of me still thinks it was a miscommunication between the show people and the bonus content people. Because also if they use it only so often, how the hell do they know the hut is still there?
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Dec 12, 2021 21:15
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