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Silver2195 posted:Magic-should-have-rules vs. don't-be-so-literal-minded, I guess. Though I would argue it's more of a continuum than a split. Exactly. I am in the “don’t be so literal minded” camp when it comes to sci-fi/fantasy because I see it as an escape from reality and I get enough science at work.
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Dec 23, 2021 06:46
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BananaNutkins posted:I just read the first chapter of the first Commonweal book...and it was like I was having a stoke. The words were English words and some of them had meaning, but none of them connected in any meaningful way. I've read and enjoyed A Clockwork Orange and Anathem, but this was like taking all the Asperger's in the world and mixing it with high fantasy Capital Names. Surely there was a better way to introduce the book (unless bafflement was the desired effect). Have you uh, never read anything unfamiliar before? It throws you into the middle and you figure it out while you go. Malazan is another series people get mad at for this tbh
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Dec 23, 2021 07:50
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Silver2195 posted:One odd thing that occurred to me about The Girl With All the Gifts is that at a certain level of abstraction, it has basically the same plot as Ender's Game. The protagonist is a bright child at an unusual school who's treated rather cruelly by the adults around her, then ends up in the "real world" making high-stakes decisions, and in the end, with the best possible intentions, commits genocide. But somehow the implementation in The Girl With All the Gifts feels less...emotionally manipulative, I guess. It's impossible to be more emotionally manipulative than that book.
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Dec 23, 2021 08:01
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BananaNutkins posted:all the Asperger's in the world Please don't do this.
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Dec 23, 2021 08:03
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Kchama posted:It's impossible to be more emotionally manipulative than that book. have you seen the episode of futurama with the dog. you know the one
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Dec 23, 2021 08:05
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neongrey posted:Please don't do this. yeah its not good to post stuff like that. obviously as a congenital condition with fairly static incidence it's not possible to accumulate "all" the asperger's in one place, as more is constantly being generated
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Dec 23, 2021 08:07
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Cardiac posted:Exactly. I'm generally in that camp myself, but with Piranesi I was disappointed because it didn't seem to tie together even on a metaphorical level.
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Dec 23, 2021 08:18
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Nomnom Cookie posted:have you seen the episode of futurama with the dog. you know the one Hm, I concede that you are correct. It's a very high bar to clear, though.
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Dec 23, 2021 08:27
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Nomnom Cookie posted:have you seen the episode of futurama with the dog. you know the one
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Dec 23, 2021 09:53
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Have you uh, never read anything unfamiliar before? It throws you into the middle and you figure it out while you go. Malazan is another series people get mad at for this tbh I have read loads of books that do the throw you in the deep end thing and the beginning of the Commonweal felt like it was intentionally trying to be confusing in a way I didn't particularly enjoy. The rest of the book and books 2/3 he could have made just as confusing as the beginning but he didn't.  I kinda thought he was trying to put on Literary Airs like it was Cormac McCarthy or something for a while
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Dec 23, 2021 13:00
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BananaNutkins posted:Asperger's Nomnom Cookie posted:yeah its not good to post stuff like that. obviously as a congenital condition with fairly static incidence it's not possible to accumulate "all" the asperger's in one place, as more is constantly being generated Jesus Christ. The things I wake up to. Don't do this. neongrey posted:Please don't do this.
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Dec 23, 2021 13:10
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BananaNutkins posted:I just read the first chapter of the first Commonweal book...and it was like I was having a stoke. The words were English words and some of them had meaning, but none of them connected in any meaningful way. I've read and enjoyed A Clockwork Orange and Anathem, but this was like taking all the Asperger's in the world and mixing it with high fantasy Capital Names. Surely there was a better way to introduce the book (unless bafflement was the desired effect). See I did get grabbed by the start of Commonweal cause even though it’s weird, three wizards showing up who aren’t usually gathered together was pretty cool. But then it becomes a lot of trudging and talking about various kinds of magic cannon balls and so I haven’t been able to get past 30%. I wish it were written in a more digestible style because I really like a lot of the ideas.
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Dec 23, 2021 13:27
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Have you uh, never read anything unfamiliar before? It throws you into the middle and you figure it out while you go. Malazan is another series people get mad at for this tbh Eh, usually literature that throws you in the middle of something is at least competently written. This is the least issue with the Commonweal series. It is a worse version of Black Company (damning with faint praise). Cook have never been good at writing evocative characters and the Commonweal series takes after this.
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Dec 23, 2021 15:05
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Cardiac posted:Eh, usually literature that throws you in the middle of something is at least competently written. This is the least issue with the Commonweal series. It is a worse version of Black Company (damning with faint praise). Cook have never been good at writing evocative characters and the Commonweal series takes after this. This is especially true of the first book, yeah. It's really easy to see why Commonweal is unpublished / self published. It still does a lot of things that I find interesting, and I definitely enjoyed reading it over a fair number of published series I've read (specifcally thinking of Malazan, Greatcoats, and First Law as series I enjoyed reading less). For me it's sortof in the same boat as Gene Wolfe: the writing has some big obvious problems but the author is doing neat things that other authors aren't trying so I find it enjoyable regardless of the flaws.
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Dec 23, 2021 15:29
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Fafhrd and the Gay Bowser
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Dec 23, 2021 17:22
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I read the second chapter last night and I thought the fire-breathing ram guy was cool. But yes, it's a lot like the Black Company and Malazan, but less coherent than both. The author seems talented enough that they could have eliminated the confusion if they wanted to. I've seen a lot of amateur F and SF authors obfuscate their stories intentionally with vague prose and non-linear storytelling to conceal how derivative their stories are. I'll give it another three chapters.
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Dec 23, 2021 17:35
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BananaNutkins posted:I just read the first chapter of the first Commonweal book...and it was like I was having a stroke. The words were English words and some of them had meaning, but none of them connected in any meaningful way. I've read and enjoyed A Clockwork Orange and Anathem, but this was like taking all the Asperger's in the world and mixing it with high fantasy Capital Names. Surely there was a better way to introduce the book (unless bafflement was the desired effect). that's why I like it OP.
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Dec 23, 2021 17:42
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and frankly the last page of criticisms are spot on, it IS kind of conceited and there's an obvious reason it's not published despite the technical quality of the writing. that said it's still utterly unique, and I recommend everyone try at least one of the books. frankly you could probably read any one if them and not be any more lost than someone who's read it in order.
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Dec 23, 2021 17:45
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:This is especially true of the first book, yeah. Fair enough. Honestly I am mostly pissed at myself for going through all the hoops getting the first book to my kindle, kinda enjoying it, then thinking that the rest of the series was decent and getting book 2 and 3. Which were mind numbingly boring and I gave up halfway through book 3, which is something that almost never happens to me.
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Dec 23, 2021 18:39
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I also gave up halfway through 3 but that's not uncommon for me with self published books 
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Dec 23, 2021 18:41
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White Night (Dresden Files #9) by Jim Butcher - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000R4LH3S/
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Dec 23, 2021 19:05
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BananaNutkins posted:I just read the first chapter of the first Commonweal book...and it was like I was having a stroke. The words were English words and some of them had meaning, but none of them connected in any meaningful way. I've read and enjoyed A Clockwork Orange and Anathem, but this was like taking all the Asperger's in the world and mixing it with high fantasy Capital Names. Surely there was a better way to introduce the book (unless bafflement was the desired effect). The Saunders Alts are getting weird and mean with it
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Dec 23, 2021 21:18
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I read the new Quillifer book, Quillifer the Knight. Actually its the second one I guess, the third comes out in February. Anyway, this one is told in the same style, but the character Quillifer is narrating it too is in the story this time, so it's much more... Conversational. And I found it kind of annoying, and I was thinking man this character is still an idiot, but then I got to the ending and man. This owns lol. I literally don't think I can talk about it without spoiling it because the entire book turned out to be setting it up lol. Maybe I just missed obvious poo poo but I didn't see many hints it was going to go this way.
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Dec 24, 2021 03:14
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Larry Parrish posted:I read the new Quillifer book, Quillifer the Knight. Actually its the second one I guess, the third comes out in February. Anyway, this one is told in the same style, but the character Quillifer is narrating it too is in the story this time, so it's much more... Conversational. And I found it kind of annoying, and I was thinking man this character is still an idiot, but then I got to the ending and man. This owns lol. I literally don't think I can talk about it without spoiling it because the entire book turned out to be setting it up lol. Maybe I just missed obvious poo poo but I didn't see many hints it was going to go this way. Holy poo poo, I didn't even know that was getting a sequel. Your summary is exactly what I thought of the first book. I had a feeling it was going that way, but it was mostly from being familiar with WJW's prior work and writing style. (I'm a fan.) I'm curious and excited to see how he pulls it off this time.
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Dec 24, 2021 03:31
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Kesper North posted:Holy poo poo, I didn't even know that was getting a sequel. it's better than the first book which imo, is a much more traditional adventure style- the shock is in how things happen, not what. not that there's anything wrong with that. I'd give Quillifer a 8 or 9 and Knight a 9 or 10- maybe not a real 10 in the sense that it's one of the best books I ever read, but it's definetly one of the ones I most enjoyed this year. Plus I reread the first one earlier this week and it didn't detract from my enjoyment, it only added to it.
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Dec 24, 2021 03:36
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Iron Widow by Xiran Jay Zhao is 99p on UK Amazon today https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B091QDF9R1 https://twitter.com/ragbonehair/status/1448665056606965761
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Dec 24, 2021 10:00
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The Ten Thousand Doors of January by Alix E Harrow - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M77XW56/
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Dec 24, 2021 18:48
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The content in the Legends Film DVD release of Plan Nine from Outer Space is so incredibly mean-spirited it invokes the same bullying vibe that established SF&F authors & SF&F fandom in general have treated the Eye of Argon. Yes Plan Nine isn't great, but it is leagues more coherent than the 2016 Westworld tv-series turned out to be.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:22
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quantumfoam posted:The content in the Legends Film DVD release of Plan Nine from Outer Space is so incredibly mean-spirited it invokes the same bullying vibe that established SF&F authors & SF&F fandom in general have treated the Eye of Argon. Yes Plan Nine isn't great, but it is leagues more coherent than the 2016 Westworld tv-series turned out to be. 
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Dec 24, 2021 20:51
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Crashbee posted:Iron Widow by Xiran Jay Zhao is 99p on UK Amazon today https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B091QDF9R1 I also bought this based on this tweet. Why not, what' s a pound in the end.
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Dec 24, 2021 21:02
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quantumfoam posted:The content in the Legends Film DVD release of Plan Nine from Outer Space is so incredibly mean-spirited it invokes the same bullying vibe that established SF&F authors & SF&F fandom in general have treated the Eye of Argon. Yes Plan Nine isn't great, but it is leagues more coherent than the 2016 Westworld tv-series turned out to be. Hey season 1 of west world was alright. I like Plan 9 but mostly because of the Ed Wood movie. Guy had passion even if he didn’t have anything else hahaha
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Dec 24, 2021 22:26
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I'm also trying to muddle through Commonweal book 1 and I think its dramatically more confusing than Malazan, Black Company, etc books. I like the ideas and way too much detail on magical artillery is basically one of my nanowrimo books, but it's a tough one. I think the random use of common Words but obviously have specific magical Meaning is probably the most confusing because they aren't flavor but tied to seemingly critical parts of the story. Like in Black Company often it's just place names or factions that you are breezing by and I actually enjoy nonsense jargon so that isn't a problem. I'm just still unsure of wtf the Standard exactly is or the specifics of the narrator (they are undead? they exist as a disembodied RTS camera when using the Standard or maybe all the time? does all of the command staff condense down into the standard while fighting?).
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Dec 25, 2021 00:16
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Those questions are kind of answered? You learn more about the narrator. The living people don't enter the standard to fight, no. They're basically kind of a telekinetic focus thingy everyone can latch onto to work together, with additional fun features like rts view.
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Dec 25, 2021 00:27
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HopperUK posted:I also bought this based on this tweet. Why not, what' s a pound in the end. It's a fun book. And surprisingly close to real historic events.
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Dec 25, 2021 00:31
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Commonweal is one of those books where the more you read of it, the more stuff makes sense. But a lot of it is left to the reader to figure out, sort of like a mystery novel. There's basically no exposition, ever. People say stuff and react to it and only rarely is their reaction explained, etc.
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Dec 25, 2021 01:30
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Larry Parrish posted:Commonweal is one of those books where the more you read of it, the more stuff makes sense. But a lot of it is left to the reader to figure out, sort of like a mystery novel. There's basically no exposition, ever. People say stuff and react to it and only rarely is their reaction explained, etc. Sort of, but not actually in any way like a mystery novel then.
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Dec 25, 2021 02:13
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Kchama posted:Sort of, but not actually in any way like a mystery novel then. Im really not kidding when I say it's not like any other book series. It's hard to come up with comparisons.
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Dec 25, 2021 02:19
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Larry Parrish posted:Im really not kidding when I say it's not like any other book series. It's hard to come up with comparisons. I'm just poking fun, it's okay.
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Dec 25, 2021 02:20
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I'm only about 20% into Commonweal book 1 but I feel most of the text has been exposition so far. It's just exposition about local metallurgy or social conventions of the Line instead of more grounding ideas around the main plot. Like we just had pages and pages of random explanatory details told to me the reader, a couple paragraphs of plot that got tossed out with zero explanation so I'm not sure what is happening, and then we're back to meandering around the local area wiki. Part of the toss you in the deep end no explanation idea is to usually avoid characters saying stuff everyone in universe already knows, but our narrator is a straight up guide, like Black Company, that's just breezing over stuff I wouldn't mind some clarity on. Croaker might breeze through people or places but usually came back around for conceptual stuff. Mind you I really want to like this book I was just getting impatient last night with it. FuzzySlippers fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 02:51
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Ccs posted:I like Plan 9 but mostly because of the Ed Wood movie. Guy had passion even if he didn’t have anything else hahaha I feel the same way but about angora sweaters
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Dec 25, 2021 03:29
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