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Butternubs posted:- the matrix was supposed to be cool, this was the opposite of cool. 
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Dec 23, 2021 23:30
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The matrix was never deep enough to warrant an edgy meta parody of itself. They're stylised action movie with cool choreography and some philosophical bs as filler. This was just lame AND poorly executed for what it was.
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Dec 23, 2021 23:35
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If nothing else this movie proves you can have characters literally turn to the screen and say the subtext of the movie and people will still miss it.
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Dec 23, 2021 23:36
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Butternubs posted:Movie was on par with Jupiter ascending. I'll agree with this because Jupiter Ascending owned as well.
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Dec 23, 2021 23:39
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Butternubs posted:The matrix was never deep enough to warrant an edgy meta parody of itself. They're stylised action movie with cool choreography and some philosophical bs as filler. Hmm a specific type of film with very little depth doesn't warrant parody.   Yes that makes sense. CPFortest fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Dec 23, 2021 |
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Dec 23, 2021 23:43
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Matrix one was a movie about fighting conformity and a repressive society. Then for 20 years it festered into being taken all wrong by the wrong people who turned it into an anthem to support hyper conservative ideas about women and a general super orthodox idea of what a badass cool man is. This movie is looking at that guy and saying "no, you are garbage'. neo is a lovely old man. He is powerless without others. zion can't make strawberries without hanging out with the machines as friends. The ideology of the first movie was wrong. (but not pointless, because this neo can make it right after the first one laid the seeds down, even if it failed in it's own time)
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Dec 23, 2021 23:44
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Just make the trench coat man fight the suit man, PLEASE!
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Dec 23, 2021 23:49
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I think it kinda got subsumed by coming off as random lame zombie attack but the swarm thing was one of the biggest parts of the movie. Theme wise. Like in the first movie the biggest threat was some sort of organized quasi-government G man coming to shoot you. In this the biggest enemy was the mob of normal people acting mindlessly. GreenBuckanneer posted:That's why he had zero of his cool demeanor from matrix 2. Because he can change the matrix at will, he chooses to be a boring old man Butternubs posted:Neo *really* knows. Or sees the code, my point is, he's not just got a bullet shield, he can change the entire matrix at will. This movie really vindicates the notion that waking up/being The One was never about individual identity. Nu-Smith even says something along the lines of "anyone could've been you". Butternubs posted:The matrix was never deep enough to warrant an edgy meta parody of itself. They're stylised action movie with cool choreography and some philosophical bs as filler. Okay now you're just trolling, there is no movie that warranted a revisit more than The (devastatingly influential, absurdly coopted) Matrix
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Dec 23, 2021 23:50
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Teeny tiny plot-related thought of little value: in the final fight the analyst certainly seems to be crawling towards his cat Déjà-vu. I wonder if the cat was some kind of reset command. After all, déjà-vu is apparently a symptom of a change in the Matrix code.
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Dec 23, 2021 23:58
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VROOM VROOM posted:Okay now you're just trolling, there is no movie that warranted a revisit more than The (devastatingly influential, absurdly coopted) Matrix I don't think throwing a tantrum through the medium of film is the best way to do this. A lot of people are saying the story is good so there's a high chance I'm just too dumb to "get it" but; Objectively, nearly every other part of the movie was garbage: Choreography, editing, dialogue, sound, filmography, effects were all poorly executed. The set/costume design was pretty good.
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Dec 24, 2021 00:01
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My reading is that one of the big drives of the movie was basically justice for the kinda callous offing of Trinity in Revolutions. But unfortunately this movie paints her as a complete blank, that doesn't demonstrate any of the vulnerability of 'Get up Trinity. Get. Up.' that balanced out her Badass Leather Action Hero persona. Then she becomes god or whatever? With no real character depth or motivation or ideology in the actual substance of the movie, just 'you the bad guys and we the good guys so get hosed lol'.
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Dec 24, 2021 00:10
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Hand Knit posted:Teeny tiny plot-related thought of little value: in the final fight the analyst certainly seems to be crawling towards his cat Déjà-vu. I wonder if the cat was some kind of reset command. After all, déjà-vu is apparently a symptom of a change in the Matrix code.
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Dec 24, 2021 00:21
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Nuts and Gum posted:Remember when they introduce a robot character side kick right out of transformers 2? What the gently caress lmao Vitamin P posted:There's a lot of choices made that people are going to unfairly kneejerk hate. Example would be that robot that looks like a metal Disney bird with big blue eyes, which seems dumb as hell until you realise it's Sati in the real world and then suddenly it rules. A program created without a purpose, not quite a human and not quite a machine but with humanity, yeah no poo poo she's going to create something beautiful to be her real world body there it is GreenBuckanneer posted:That's why he had zero of his cool demeanor from matrix 2. Because he can change the matrix at will, he chooses to be a boring old man The weird detail of the matrix presenting people as different to how they actually are is obviously red meat to the trans-matrix-reading crowd but it would have maybe been more interesting if Neo had been actually unattractive. Also Bugs having her awakening from that moment of identitarian fluidity, and lets be real how many high-rise window cleaners are female, and her meta 'your story meant everything to me' moment Bugs is a transwoman not saying the actress is but the character absolutely is.
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Dec 24, 2021 00:25
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Butternubs posted:I don't think throwing a tantrum through the medium of film is the best way to do this. Lol, objectively.
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Dec 24, 2021 00:26
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I think it kinda got subsumed by coming off as random lame zombie attack but the swarm thing was one of the biggest parts of the movie. Theme wise. Like in the first movie the biggest threat was some sort of organized quasi-government G man coming to shoot you. In this the biggest enemy was the mob of normal people acting mindlessly. I could see the swarm not being as cool as agents, but here's my take on them (which agrees with yours I think): In the algorithm driven social world, the swarm is essentially downvotes/review bombs. Pop-culture is dictated by the algorithm, and if you go against pop culture views/algorithm, the masses will come and downvote/dislike you out of existence. Neo and Trinity trying to make an original, heart-felt sequel is against the expectations so gets mass disliked. Or even the new crew with their crazy style and various sexuality are targeted by the swarm for mass dislikes.
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Dec 24, 2021 00:26
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Hand Knit posted:Teeny tiny plot-related thought of little value: in the final fight the analyst certainly seems to be crawling towards his cat Déjà-vu. I wonder if the cat was some kind of reset command. After all, déjà-vu is apparently a symptom of a change in the Matrix code. I thought Deja Vu was connected to his bullet time ability TBH, since it's actually a matter of controlling time since he could also rewind Neo. If he'd gotten to it he could have just rewound the scene basically.
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Dec 24, 2021 00:35
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Is there any reason why Niobe was the only one who had aged for what looked like 40 years while everyone else aged about 20?
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Dec 24, 2021 00:38
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Rabelais D posted:Is there any reason why Niobe was the only one who had aged for what looked like 40 years while everyone else aged about 20? 60 years have passed since Revolutions, and the machines literally rebuilt Neo and Trinity over time, keeping them young-ish.
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Dec 24, 2021 00:40
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Rabelais D posted:Is there any reason why Niobe was the only one who had aged for what looked like 40 years while everyone else aged about 20? They said that closer to 60 years passed in the real world. Neo and Trinity were completely 100% for real dead and they spent time recreating and maintaining their bodies so they effectively aged slower.
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Dec 24, 2021 00:41
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Rabelais D posted:Is there any reason why Niobe was the only one who had aged for what looked like 40 years while everyone else aged about 20? She aged in the real world. Trinity and Neo were purposely revived/kept in the matrix as the primary power sources so their aging was slowed. Sati aged but she’s also a program so she can probably play around with that same as the Merovingian and the other programs basically living throughout multiple matrix redivisions. I don’t recall anyone else from the original trilogy showing up. Roland (the other captain from the sequels) was referenced but that’s it, I think.
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Dec 24, 2021 00:41
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Late in the movie, I wondered how they were going to resolve Trinity already having a family in the Matrix, and got a bit of whiplash when the answer was just "Eh, gently caress those guys." The "Swarm Mode" thing was, despite being explained, not explained well enough. It seemed like the Analyst was just doing a cheaper (both in-universe and film budget-wise) version of taking over living people in the Matrix, like the agents already do. Just making them into a swarm of human-grade zombies took less resources than converting them fully into an instance of a super-powered agent. Or maybe every "human" in the swarms were just programs all along? The movie was already telling us that programs are people too, so that difference shouldn't matter, according to the movie's own rules. Trinity starts to go back with her family and then... turns around and abandons her children for Neo without even a goodbye, which was pretty brutal. Note that I am fully willing to believe I missed something that made this clearer. The part that confuses me most is that I agree with pretty much every criticism anyone has made... but somehow, I still enjoyed it. I genuinely can't tell if I thought the movie was "good", or if I thought it was "so bad it comes around to being good again," which is a weird distinction to not be able to make. Either way, I was entertained enough to keep watching. Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 01:05
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Robot Hobo posted:Late in the movie, I wondered how they were going to resolve Trinity already having a family in the Matrix, and got a bit of whiplash when the answer was just "Eh, gently caress those guys." I get the feeling there was some draft of this story where the Analyst's matrix had exactly two humans in it- Neo and Trinity and thusly swarm mode makes sense as it's just repurposing existing programs, and something changed, but obviously the action scenes couldn't change.
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Dec 24, 2021 01:13
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Butternubs posted:I don't think throwing a tantrum through the medium of film is the best way to do this. I think if you're still working through the definition of "objectively" then yeah, you may want to start with Spies in Disguise before you try the Matrix movie, yeah.
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Dec 24, 2021 01:21
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The Architect watching The Matrix Resurrections and getting mad that it says his matrix was bad: "Ergo, this work is objectively wrong in all facets of logic."
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Dec 24, 2021 01:31
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I had fun watching Resurrections, more than I thought I would. It was fine but an unnecessary sequel. Loved the zombie/bot bombs stuff and the self-referential/meta aspect was the best part imo. Plus it's always good to see Keanu The original Matrix is still very good, but I prefer Dark City (fun fact: some of the DC sets were used in The Matrix)
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Dec 24, 2021 01:35
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flashy_mcflash posted:I think if you're still working through the definition of "objectively" then yeah, you may want to start with Spies in Disguise before you try the Matrix movie, yeah. 
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Dec 24, 2021 01:36
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Panzeh posted:I get the feeling there was some draft of this story where the Analyst's matrix had exactly two humans in it- Neo and Trinity and thusly swarm mode makes sense as it's just repurposing existing programs, and something changed, but obviously the action scenes couldn't change.
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Dec 24, 2021 01:46
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Introducing literal NPC human beings to the matrix doesn't do anything to help the idea that it's not ok to kill anyone who's not enlightened by waking up to the matrix.
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Dec 24, 2021 02:02
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Linguica posted:I definitely got the feeling there was less consideration for the normies living inside the Matrix and the explanation for any and all collateral damage was "it's OK to slaughter people in a mass shooting because they all happen to be soulless NPCs" which is, uh, an interesting stance for a movie supposedly reclaiming the red pill from sociopaths. Aren't the ones that swarm straight up bots? Like, there are a bunch of NPCs peppered in with the humans that are there (like the dude who dives out the window was a bot and the lady he was in bed with who screamed was a person). If anything that kinda fixes one of the complaints some people had about the originally trilogy casually killing off people the Agents take over.
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Dec 24, 2021 02:03
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I liked this one but suspect a LOT of people will disagree with me. It was a deeply personal work with layers upon layers of subtext that really tried to do something new and I respect that even if it was a bit awkward in places. Linguica posted:I definitely got the feeling there was less consideration for the normies living inside the Matrix and the explanation for any and all collateral damage was "it's OK to slaughter people in a mass shooting because they all happen to be soulless NPCs" which is, uh, an interesting stance for a movie supposedly reclaiming the red pill from sociopaths. The idea seems to be that anybody in society still plugged into the matrix (read: normies still buying conservative propaganda) can be turned against you by the system in a whim. It’s less that the writers didn’t think about the consequences of this but are outright swaying that you should fight back anyways despite them being victims you are ultimately trying to free. E: And they’re correct. 
readingatwork fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 02:04
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LesterGroans posted:Aren't the ones that swarm straight up bots? Like, there are a bunch of NPCs peppered in with the humans that are there (like the dude who dives out the window was a bot and the lady he was in bed with who screamed was a person). If anything that kinda fixes one of the complaints some people had about the originally trilogy casually killing off people the Agents take over.
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Dec 24, 2021 02:06
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The movie just doesn't have much interest in the average joe. It's mainly concerned about the plight of lana wachowski personally, only worth low 9 figures and sadly not having enough power (have to listen to notes from stupid warner people, ugh 🙄) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 24, 2021 02:15
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Its consistent with the other films. They never got into the morality of killing individuals used by the matrix. First one had them blasting police away. I guess everyone that got turned into a Smith (so everyone) got reverted back at least. So maybe there's some handwaving? For the new one, the bots or swarm are just anonymous downvoters. But even if they are programs (bots as we know them), then in universe this isnt much different than killing a human or machine since they are all equivalent. See IO.
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Dec 24, 2021 02:15
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The movie claims that peppered among the civilian population now are utterly convincing "bots", which are computer simulations pretending to be human until the moment they try to kill you, and because of this it's OK to kill them, and every civilian the good guys murder happen to be one of these soulless NPCs so they aren't actually killing real people. Very convenient for everyone involved!
Linguica fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 02:16
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A tremendous number of the non-main character people in the movie are cops so gently caress em. And the bots jumping and splatting into code blobs make it clear they aren't really human. Trinity's Matrix family is likely also bots because otherwise they would have reacted to walking into a room with a billion cops in it (even if they're white).
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Dec 24, 2021 02:18
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Robot Hobo posted:
I think there clearly was sci-fi mind control happening in swarm mode. Their eyes glow and whatever. But I think the thing with original matrix is everyone basically lived their small unhappy lives, crushed in a bleak but okay existance it took someone special like neo to start to see something was wrong. Begin to see behind the curtain and say "something is wrong with the world" In the new matrix I think a big concept is it's not like that anymore. It's a world everyone constantly sees something is wrong with the world. In fact, they hit new levels of efficacy by having everyone stressed and discontent at all times. Like now, it's a world everyone knows is not right, and everyone could change it. If a robot worked with a human they could make a strawberry. But no one ever would. neo is kept just far enough from trinity. Everyone is kept exactly connected to each other just enough through zucker gently caress face book and wiki piss and poo poo but never quite fully. And a major theme is no one will ever take the step to connect, they all want whats on the other side but could never leave the safety of what they have to take it. I think clearly swam mode is some sci-fi bezerker mode where they aren't under their own control, but I also think it's "what they want". It is people giving their life to protect the system that they hate, but is one they would never want seen destroyed. I'm going to be a loser dork and quote some dumb speech about cereal from welcome to nightvale: quote:Once, there was a farmer who lived at the edge of a forest, and she worked her fields. She would look at the forest with longing, because it seemed to her that her life was built only of routines and chores, and that these were the walls that boxed her in. And that by monopolizing her days, these routines were killing her. They were killing her in the sense that they were taking her entire life away from her, and she felt that if she ever got the nerve, one Kellogg’s day evening, she would run into the forest. Maybe it would be scary in there, probably dangerous. She would be less comfortable than she was on the farm, but she would also be truly herself. It was all waiting for her in the forest. She never ran into it. Later, she died while working one of her fields. This story doesn’t matter. Like they are all the farmer yearning to finally get together and make strawberries with each other instead of yelling on twitter. I think swarm mode is less like an agent and more like... if someone attacked the farmer's house in that story, she would probably fight with all her strength to protect it, even if she got hurt or died doing so, fighting for a life she resented and hated even as she knew the way out.
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Dec 24, 2021 02:18
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flashy_mcflash posted:I think if you're still working through the definition of "objectively" then yeah, you may want to start with Spies in Disguise before you try the Matrix movie, yeah. Maybe Lana Wachowski should have started with a blog post before trying to make a movie.
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Dec 24, 2021 02:23
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Shiroc posted:A tremendous number of the non-main character people in the movie are cops so gently caress em. And the bots jumping and splatting into code blobs make it clear they aren't really human. Trinity's Matrix family is likely also bots because otherwise they would have reacted to walking into a room with a billion cops in it (even if they're white). They showed a bunch of people reacting in horror as these bots threw themselves out of windows and the like, which should heavily imply they're Matrixed humans who swarm mode doesn't affect.
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Dec 24, 2021 02:29
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I really enjoyed this movie. I thought the first part where they played with Neo's mind games was pretty well done. The latter half was just a tad weaker but I really appreciated that there was love for the characters and they gave a happy ending. I also enjoyed Lana spelling it out for everyone why she made this one and how it got meta. I do admit seeing people launch themselves out the window like bombs was a serious horror and yet hilarious at the same time. My only wish was I could get Laurence Fishbourne and Hugo Weaving as cameos at least. I loved the concept of what they did with Morpheus and I did like the actor, felt he was charismatic. This was a good movie. They introduced a touch of new elements, hit some original nostalgia notes, and I just got a warm fuzzy out of everything I experienced between Neo and Trinity. The actor that played Morpheus was really charismatic, I'd love to see him in other movies and be able to showcase it.
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Dec 24, 2021 02:29
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Pirate Jet posted:They showed a bunch of people reacting in horror as these bots threw themselves out of windows and the like, which should heavily imply they're Matrixed humans who swarm mode doesn't affect. Linguica fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 02:40
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