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There were definitely some parts I liked in the finale. I thought that they did a fantastic job with Ishamael, and Padan Fain is absolutely amazing. They seem to maybe be merging Ishamael/Moridin, but that makes some sense, and I can get behind it. I also appreciate that they're trying to give the rest of the characters stuff to do. But . . . if I hadn't read the books, I'd be real confused why the whiny kid with a glowy rock is the Dragon, and why that matters at all when everybody else is just fine on their own. Since they gave the scene with mowing down trollocs to Egwene and Nynaeve (which I think mostly works, except for Egwene seeming to raise the dead afterwards), they really should have given Rand something with wider impact (even if nobody knows it was him) to balance that out. I think a lot of my critiques of the show are similar. They're changing a bunch of stuff, some of it even for understandable reasons, but I'm getting increasingly concerned that they're writing checks that they can't cash, both in terms of landing the consequences of their changes (if the Dragon could be a woman, what does the White Tower do with all the women false Dragons that must have popped up over the years, and how is the Red Ajah involved with those?), and in terms of just being internally consistent. Sanderson already mentioned that he had to tell them that Moiraine sinking the river raft with the owner on it would have been a Three Oaths violation, so I'm not sure that the writers really care about making all the details line up. That's a thing that I loved about the books, and I don't really have a lot of faith that it'll happen with the show. I'll probably keep watching, but I'm not expecting much. I have a feeling it's just going to end up an incoherent mess that leaves non-book readers confused and book readers disappointed.
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Dec 25, 2021 00:36
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Hexel posted:This bit about the Eye is interesting But...why? Rand has been one of the odd ducks of the ensemble all season. Nyneave and Egwene felt like they had things to do, Perrin existed and moped about his wife in the refrigerator and also some stuff with wolves that never really mattered, Matt went full D&D edgelord, sure, but now that he has something to do it's gotta be better than delivering a PSA about how consent is good and then blowing up the Dark One's seal while Ishamael wanders off grinning. Hieronymous Alloy posted:And in this they've really cranked things up to eleven all the time. The pacing is blistering, the action is dramatic and explosive, characters are constantly on the brink of death or over it, everything's happening all at once all the time. It feels less like things that are happening are interesting and more like they were inspired by GoT's attempts to deliver Dramatic Moments that when you think about them you go "why did they do that"? Why did Agelmar cavalry charge the stables? Why did we have an entire flashback to LTT for the sole purpose of having Latra tell him he was an idiot for fighting TDO? Look, I'm not gonna pretend EotW is some sacrosanct masterpiece that couldn't be cleaned up for television, but I'm not sure that turning all the characters into Jack from Lost was the way to do that.
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Dec 25, 2021 00:39
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CainFortea posted:If you have better range than your opponent, and are by yourself, street to street fighting is not recommended. I went to bed when you posted this but wha? How does being on a wall, top of some stairs, gate entrance, whatever instead of being a sitting duck on an open plain reduce your range? Why would she be by herself instead of with all her other armed, fortified city defenders? crepeface fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 01:14
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crepeface posted:How does being on a flat plain instead on a wall reduce your range? I didn't say that. I was talking about someone's suggesting that you fight IN the town.
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Dec 25, 2021 01:25
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So I guess we probably won't see a scene of Rand attempting to resurrect someone dead and having an emotional breakdown about not being able to fix death, since it's now established in this first season that Egg resurrected Nynaeve.
pixelbaron fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 01:39
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They didn't even have the Eye of the World in the show. Like their whole thing was " Go to the Eye of the World" and then they get there and its just a overgrown room with vines.
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Dec 25, 2021 01:39
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are you seriously defending standing out in front of the city with 0 guards instead of on top of a wall, shooting down surrounded by mounted crossbows? lmao
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Dec 25, 2021 01:41
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^^^ lolpixelbaron posted:So I guess we probably won't see a scene of Rand attempting to resurrect someone dead and having an emotional breakdown about not being able to fix death, since it's now established in this first season that Egg resurrected Nynaeve. Or it hasn't been established and she wasn't dead.
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Dec 25, 2021 01:42
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Hollismason posted:They didn't even have the Eye of the World in the show. Like their whole thing was " Go to the Eye of the World" and then they get there and its just a overgrown room with vines. Yeah, the Eye was pretty disappointing. Did they even talk about what it was or what LTT was doing? Reading some more of the other thoughts about the finale makes me like it less than I did. I think I was excited by Rand + Moiraine time and didn't think too hard about all the dropped balls. crepeface fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 01:46
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CainFortea posted:Or it hasn't been established and she wasn't dead. In that case it isn't established that Amalisa and the other two women that were burnt up are dead either, so I hope Nynaeve and Egwene jumped up and resur-I mean healed them too. 
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Dec 25, 2021 02:02
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It's ok guys any minute now someone on Twitter will dig up some unused production image buried in x-ray that fixes all of the logical inconsistencies and smug goons will rub our faces in it! Any minute now. EVERY loving TIME, amirite guys?
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Dec 25, 2021 02:08
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It was stupid to Still Moraine as well because she has a important part to play in the Stone of Tear as well as with Lanfear , along with doing other stuff with the one power. I dunno I just thought it was a dumb decision.
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Dec 25, 2021 02:08
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pixelbaron posted:In that case it isn't established that Amalisa and the other two women that were burnt up are dead either, so I hope Nynaeve and Egwene jumped up and resur-I mean healed them too. Dr. Clockwork posted:It's ok guys any minute now someone on Twitter will dig up some unused production image buried in x-ray that fixes all of the logical inconsistencies and smug goons will rub our faces in it! Any minute now. EVERY loving TIME, amirite guys? lol imagine posting like this
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Dec 25, 2021 02:09
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pixelbaron posted:In that case it isn't established that Amalisa and the other two women that were burnt up are dead either, so I hope Nynaeve and Egwene jumped up and resur-I mean healed them too. Well, due to the linear nature of time that might not be possible.
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Dec 25, 2021 02:16
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i figure nyneave was on the verge of death and egwene healed her. i don't like that the wonder girls can just do complicated weaves without any training, i liked how magic in WoT was a combo of strength and skill. you can excuse nyneave since she's been doing healing unconsciously forever but it makes the power seem a bit too convenient imo fake edit: also isn't drawing too much power supposed to burn out your ability to channel? makes going ssj2 less of a dramatic last ditch effort.
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Dec 25, 2021 02:21
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Nvm
SSJ_naruto_2003 fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 02:23
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crepeface posted:i figure nyneave was on the verge of death and egwene healed her. i don't like that the wonder girls can just do complicated weaves without any training, i liked how magic in WoT was a combo of strength and skill. you can excuse nyneave since she's been doing healing unconsciously forever but it makes the power seem a bit too convenient imo I dunno friend, the Edmon Fields channelers frequently spit out brand new weaves on their own in the books too. Frequently doing stuff because “it feels right.” As Ta’veren the pattern frequently gives them the the weaves they need, when they need them, to make events unfold as required.
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Dec 25, 2021 02:25
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Kind of a dick move to only resurrect one of the four charred corpses in your magic circle IMO.
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Dec 25, 2021 02:25
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withak posted:Kind of a dick move to only resurrect one of the four charred corpses in your magic circle IMO. I saw that scene as Nyneave almost dying since she still had eyes. She was on the verge of burning out like the others, but didn't actually die and could therefore be healed. In this case, eyes are like shoes, and since hers were still there she was fine. Props to Egwene for not even being charred though, drat she can handle her saidar!
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Dec 25, 2021 02:34
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, quote this post by midnight Christmas EST if you want this gangtag added to your profile: Please wipe out my other tags and give me this
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Dec 25, 2021 02:35
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, quote this post by midnight Christmas EST if you want this gangtag added to your profile: I'll take one. Please replace my "polls will never save you" tag.
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Dec 25, 2021 02:42
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Antiquated Pants posted:I saw that scene as Nyneave almost dying since she still had eyes. She was on the verge of burning out like the others, but didn't actually die and could therefore be healed. In this case, eyes are like shoes, and since hers were still there she was fine. That was because of Nynaeve healing here while the circle was still in effect. That's the clue that shows Nynaeve wasn't dead because, like you said, Egwene never lost her eyes, Nynaeve healed her first. Then the the circle ended, Egwene was able to heal her.
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Dec 25, 2021 02:45
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Nitrousoxide posted:I dunno friend, the Edmon Fields channelers frequently spit out brand new weaves on their own in the books too. Frequently doing stuff because “it feels right.” I care less about the in-world justification than I do about their characters and their niche (in their group and in the greater context of the world). Nyneave comes up with ways to heal impossible things because it's how she defined herself in society (as a village Wisdom, and then as a Yellow Ajah). She's the older one that everyone (including the other members of the E5) depends on to take care of them. Egwene sucks at healing, but she comes up with Traveling (because she's used to fast travel in dreams). She's strong in Earth -> good at Delving -> rediscovers how to make cuendillar -> (AMoL spoilers) makes the weird crystal pattern patch in the Last Battle. She's a leader and innovator harkening back to the Aes Sedai from the Age of Legends. Soonmot posted:That was because of Nynaeve healing here while the circle was still in effect. That's the clue that shows Nynaeve wasn't dead because, like you said, Egwene never lost her eyes, Nynaeve healed her first. Then the the circle ended, Egwene was able to heal her. Hmm, I didn't think Nyneave was healing Egwene: https://www.cbr.com/wheel-of-time-rafe-judkins-interview/ quote:As for the platonic relationships, what did Nynaeve do in that scene when they were linked and channeling that protected Egwene?
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Dec 25, 2021 03:00
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Wasn't a big eventual plot point in the books that a circle would act as protection to burning out? There was a lot of fat to cut but massive changes seem arbitrary. I did not like anything after episode 5. Just bad pacing and I really don't know what happened or why.
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Dec 25, 2021 03:03
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Hell another foundational thing about channeling. It gives you heightened senses dependent on the power going through you, even as part of a circle, how can you even look at anything if you have to have the world's fakest shaking orgasm?
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Dec 25, 2021 03:07
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, quote this post by midnight Christmas EST if you want this gangtag added to your profile: Me please and also delete my old one if possible, tia.
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Dec 25, 2021 03:28
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I highly doubt they plan on going into the minutiae of channeling in the show unlike the books, don't think they'll have the time explore all that. I imagine Aes Sedai and Asha'man will be able to do what the plot needs them to do regardless of the "rules".
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Dec 25, 2021 03:32
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I still really don't like the stilling of Moraine just kind of needless and pointless
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Dec 25, 2021 03:34
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:Wasn't a big eventual plot point in the books that a circle would act as protection to burning out? Yeah, in the books circles prevent you from burning out the people you're drawing power from. You can still kill them from exhaustion I think, but mostly everyone just stops when they can't channel anymore. Same with most angreals and sa'angreals. They have something built in preventing you from taking enough to burn yourself out, though there are exceptions to that.
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Dec 25, 2021 03:35
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Hollismason posted:I still really don't like the stilling of Moraine just kind of needless and pointless She's still bound by the oaths and her bond to Lan still exists, it's just masked. She's almost certainly shielded not stilled. (Brandon is trolling in his interview).
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Dec 25, 2021 03:37
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Hollismason posted:I still really don't like the stilling of Moraine just kind of needless and pointless I'm still going with, "not actually stilled." Episode 8 rules. I was watching it and thinking to myself, "I could watch 3 hours of just this episode." Sadly, there were only 20 minutes left. Totally not understanding the cold opening hate. It was exactly what I wanted to see. I think we'll still get the EotW prologue content at a later point when the Dark One/Ishy demarcation is more clear.
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Dec 25, 2021 03:38
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Hollismason posted:I still really don't like the stilling of Moraine just kind of needless and pointless If they plan on keeping her around and not "killing" her off for up to 4 seasons until she comes back at the end, stilling works for that imo. Her desperately clinging to Rand to try and maintain and keep focus so she doesn't fall into a deep depressive state and off herself should be good to watch with Rosamund almost certainly chewing up those scenes. It also might free Lan up to join Nynaeve on her many Adventures, essentially taken Julian's place with Thom as her and Elayne's watchers.
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Dec 25, 2021 03:40
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:She's still bound by the oaths and her bond to Lan still exists, it's just masked. She's almost certainly shielded not stilled. (Brandon is trolling in his interview). I agree, the way it's shot seems to indicate a shielding otherwise why the shot of Ishamial's hands as if tying off a knot after shielding/stilling her.
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Dec 25, 2021 03:43
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A lot of what I don't like about this episode, and about this season really, is really dependent on where they go in the future. I generally liked the cold open in isolation. As a part of the episode, it felt unrelated to the story beyond "baby". If major Rand episodes all have a cold open depicting Lews Therin being arrogant then doing the thing then being crazy and then Dragonmount happens later on I think I'll retroactively be really happy with it. Maybe this is a bit of a stretch but this reminds me a lot of the first season of The Expanse. Almost every line of dialogue is heavily expository for stuff that isn't immediately relevant, the characters are broadly drawn genre tropes, and it feels like both too much and too little is happening episode to episode. What makes that show great is how it uses that first season as a foundation to refine those characters, pay off that exposition, and have all of those chess pieces established early on smush into each other in interesting ways in season two and beyond. I'm largely positive on the first season of WoT, but I feel like my ultimate opinion is going to rest on what season two looks like. This season had all the troubles of an enormous dress-em-up fantasy drama building out its initial sets and costumes and orc faces and everything, a global pandemic, a main character leaving, and a series that's honestly not very translatable to television to begin with. If they used this first season to learn from adversity and improve from it then this could be a rough start to a great series. It could also not be that, but I'm trying to stay optimistic about this
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Dec 25, 2021 03:56
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:Wasn't a big eventual plot point in the books that a circle would act as protection to burning out? IIRC this is explicitly stated during the cleansing of Saidin. Nynaeve is basically delirious but Rand keeps going and assuages his guilt/concern by noting that the circle (and the Choedan Kal) have built-in protections that will protect a channeler from burnout. I think it is also mentioned during the Bowl of Winds sequence and also during the "bubble of evil" in Salidar (?) where a bunch of Aes Sedai are linked for better protection. At this point I think it is prudent to assume that unless the show explicitly names a rule then the mechanics of channeling and what not are just not going to be the same in the show, for various reasons.
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Dec 25, 2021 04:06
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, quote this post by midnight Christmas EST if you want this gangtag added to your profile: Yes please!!!
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Dec 25, 2021 04:16
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, quote this post by midnight Christmas EST if you want this gangtag added to your profile: I'll take this gangtag. You can nuke my Joe gangtag.
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Dec 25, 2021 04:17
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:She's still bound by the oaths and her bond to Lan still exists, it's just masked. She's almost certainly shielded not stilled. (Brandon is trolling in his interview). I'm not 100% convinced we know that yet, from the show. She could be lying if the oaths were broken, and if the bond being broken and masked feels the same... I suspect you're right and a bunch of season 2 Moiraine plot will be trying to get her shield gone, through Rand learning more channeling or whatever, but I'm not completely sure you're right.
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Dec 25, 2021 04:26
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silvergoose posted:I'm not 100% convinced we know that yet, from the show. She could be lying if the oaths were broken, and if the bond being broken and masked feels the same... Yeah, there's still room for it to go either way depending on how they want to take it, it's just "signs point to shielded" at this point mostly.
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Dec 25, 2021 04:28
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, there's still room for it to go either way depending on how they want to take it, it's just "signs point to shielded" at this point mostly. Yeah. This way feels more like it'll allow Rand to find a way to fix it, whereas stilled feels more like a replacement for Healing Siuan and Leane which, eh, that should happen anyway and is super duper powerful already. Siuan kissing Nynaeve's cheeks and then Leane coming over with such a look of hope in her eyes, gah that scene.
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Dec 25, 2021 04:30
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