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Cross-Section posted:Tbf the "Revan and Malak went to the Unknown Regions and encountered the True Sith" started with KOTOR 2, though it was Drew Karpyshan's crappy writing that explicitly made it so they were corrupted by the Emperor and killed off the Exile for no good reason I've posted before about the Exile being killed off, so hey another excuse to do so  iirc, it was because the Exile wasn't a KOTOR 1 character that Drew decided she needed to go out in the lamest way possible. God I hated that Revan book.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:55
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Revan and Bastila have a kid called Vaner. I shall name my child Nhoj. Actually, that already sounds like a Star Wars name maybe Drew was onto something.
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Dec 24, 2021 21:02
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Arc Hammer posted:Revan and Bastila have a kid called Vaner. There's a part in the book where Revan and Canderous go to find Mandalore's mask and the latter introduces Revan as "Avner". Ugh, loving really. Even the character they were trying to fool wasn't impressed with that one.
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Dec 24, 2021 22:34
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chaosrefined posted:There's a part in the book where Revan and Canderous go to find Mandalore's mask and the latter introduces Revan as "Avner". Ugh, loving really. Even the character they were trying to fool wasn't impressed with that one. Li'l Avner, dark lord of the Sith from Dogpatch
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Dec 24, 2021 23:09
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Casimir Radon posted:It’s really dumb that they haven’t reissued TOTJ in hardcover. Also dumb that we never got any novels from the era, excepting the TOR tie-ins. The comics move way too quickly, and major events often take place over a couple of pages. I wish we’d gotten a more intimate look at those stories. It's really bizarre how quickly they brush past things. They read like Silver Age comics but they were coming out alongside stuff like the Clone Saga and Hellboy, they feel almost out of time.
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Dec 24, 2021 23:29
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Rochallor posted:It's really bizarre how quickly they brush past things. They read like Silver Age comics but they were coming out alongside stuff like the Clone Saga and Hellboy, they feel almost out of time. This is all epic and important but here’s a brief summary of what happened.
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Dec 24, 2021 23:50
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There’s a certain charm to the idea that the Star Wars version of antiquity is told in an antiquated style
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Dec 25, 2021 00:03
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Chairman Capone posted:The idea of the Jedi Temple being built over a dark side shrine was originally invented by Matt Stover for Traitor, but it's one of those things where Lucas seems like he independently came up with the idea for Clone Wars. Knowing Luceno, him using it in the Tarkin book was probably him trying to integrate both of those ideas. Ah shoot, I forgot that it was Tom Vietch who started it. I always appreciate (as a kid) the way he tied in Dark Empire and TOTJ together. Too bad Vietch lost creative control over it, for all the flak Dark Empire gets I genuinely enjoy it. Does anyone have the old "Let's Read Dark Empire" link? Casimir Radon posted:It’s really dumb that they haven’t reissued TOTJ in hardcover. Also dumb that we never got any novels from the era, excepting the TOR tie-ins. The comics move way too quickly, and major events often take place over a couple of pages. I wish we’d gotten a more intimate look at those stories.. Good news if you like giving Disney money, you can pre-order the first half of the TOJT series. Set for a May 2022 release. https://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Le...38126405&sr=8-3 Siivola posted:If you get a chance, since you already like Stackpole's work, you might also want to grab the Rogue Squadron series. Corran's adventures start there and continue in I, Jedi. Do the Dark Horse Rogue Squadron comic series cover most or all of the Rogue Squadron books? Because I see they're about to release an omnibus of basically Rogue Squadron issues 1-35 here https://organicpricedbooks.com/products/star-wars-legends-the-new-republic-omnibus-vol-1-hc-lauffray-cover Hey look they also have some Dark Empire in stock... hmmm, tempting. https://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Legends-Epic-Collection/dp/1302926985/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1640387519&sr=8-19
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Dec 25, 2021 00:14
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This is the (archived) Let's Read thread for bad Star Wars stuff.
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Dec 25, 2021 00:34
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Ah shoot, I forgot that it was Tom Vietch who started it. I always appreciate (as a kid) the way he tied in Dark Empire and TOTJ together. Too bad Vietch lost creative control over it, for all the flak Dark Empire gets I genuinely enjoy it. Plotwise Dark Empire is maybe the stupidest SW thing ever released (until TRoS) but its storytelling is decent and the art is gorgeous. It absolutely nails the tone of pervasive corruption and light vs dark. You take away the dialogue bubbles and it's a masterpiece.
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Dec 25, 2021 01:50
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Casimir Radon posted:They come across like the SW equivalent of Bible stories. just imagining the incredible star wars names you'd see in a star wars bible's geneology lists
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Dec 25, 2021 02:40
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Jazerus posted:just imagining the incredible star wars names you'd see in a star wars bible's geneology lists
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Dec 25, 2021 03:55
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Do the Dark Horse Rogue Squadron comic series cover most or all of the Rogue Squadron books? Because I see they're about to release an omnibus of basically Rogue Squadron issues 1-35 here https://organicpricedbooks.com/products/star-wars-legends-the-new-republic-omnibus-vol-1-hc-lauffray-cover The Rogue Squadron comics tell a completely separate story from the books. The comics are mostly set in the period shortly after Endor and basically cover what the squadron does in the first year after the battle. This eventually includes stuff like Soontir Fel defecting, the battle of Brentaal IV, the fall of Sate Pestage and Isard’s rise to power. IIRC, Stackpole did most of the stories for the comics, so a good number of characters from later novels show up. The novels start off about a year or so after the comics (2~ years after Endor), when Wedge decides to fully rebuild Rogue Squadron for the first time since Endor. The novels occasionally make reference to events of the comics, but usually provide any details needed to understand them. Really only the 8th book, Isard’s Revenge, relies heavily on some of the comics (Essentially, Volume 3 of the old Dark Horse omnibus) for back story and a number of characters. That said, I read the three omnibus collections of them a few months ago, after having very limited exposure to them in the past, and enjoyed them. If you like the X-wing series, you’ll enjoy them.
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Dec 25, 2021 04:53
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Cross-Section posted:I truly wonder where the "Jedi Temple built on top of Sith shrine" bit of lore originated from because I remember reading about that in the Tarkin novel released in 2014. Curiously, I think that's where we got Sheev's first name too. What's funny about Palpatine's first name being Sheev is that it's phonetically very close to the pronunciation of the Irish word sídhe, which is spelled sìth in Scotland. So his name is just Sith Palpatine.
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Dec 25, 2021 20:34
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It was just really bizarre timing too. Palps hadn’t had a first name for 34 years, to the point that Luceno established that he didn’t like his first name and never used it in Darth Plagueis. Then a couple years later, Disney I guess, decides he needs a first name so Luceno puts it in as a throwaway line and it’s history.
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Dec 25, 2021 21:24
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fartknocker posted:The Rogue Squadron comics tell a completely separate story from the books. Good to know, thanks. Just finished Jedi Search. For a book called Jedi Search, I think only the first third of the book actually has anyone searching. Seemed like a neat opportunity for just lots of world-building and exploring, the whole Kessel/Maw plot honestly felt kind of intrusive and unnecessary. Oh well, on to Dark Apprentice. Rochallor posted:Plotwise Dark Empire is maybe the stupidest SW thing ever released (until TRoS) but its storytelling is decent and the art is gorgeous. It absolutely nails the tone of pervasive corruption and light vs dark. You take away the dialogue bubbles and it's a masterpiece. Derivative sure, re-treading some familiar ground yeah, but honestly I think the concept of Palpatine being an evil bastard who thinks he's so indispensible that he has clone after clone of himself so he can never die (And thus hold onto power forever) to be very in-character for the man we meet. The non-stop super-weapons does get a little old but I think it wouldn't look so bad if the EU wasn't full of stories like that. Now here's an interesting thought, what would a combination of the Thrawn Trilogy and Dark Empire look like. Due to the publishing conflict, Dark Empire had to justify why Palpatine never stepped in and helped Thrawn during his campaign (or assume control), with the handbook I think saying Palpatine was jealous and didn't want Thrawn to be seen as the reason why the Empire was victorious. What happens if during the Thrawn campaign Palpy's Dark Empire also rises up and causes a 3-way royal battle? Crazy Joe Wilson fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 21:52
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Blob races are unironically better than anything written by Troy Denning.
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Dec 25, 2021 21:54
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Update: Might give up on Dark Apprentice and just go to the Zahn books I have. First chapter was promising, stuff about Luke's Academy, but then we have a 100-page detour where Leia is once again sent on a diplomatic mission because ??? Seriously, so many problems with how Leia is getting used in this series. 1) A lot of the tasks being given to her by Mon Mothma seem so trivial (Picking dinner options, reviewing reports, attending a musical concert) 2) Where in all that is Holy is her staff, any staff? Should I really believe that Mon Mothma runs the New Republic with 6 advisors, who all happen to be former military Rebellion leaders? For a faction with thousands of planets, shouldn't there be a staff of thousands under Leia to do all this trivial stuff? 3) Why on earth is Leia continuing to be transported to these important diplomatic meetings on small 2-man craft? One of the most important members of the govt., with a war against the Empire still going, and you send her out on a ship that can only take a few hits, with zero entourage? Just... really dumb. Just an excuse to cause ship drama. Also, Han and Lando get into a really immature fight over the Falcon. Yeah, I think I'm kind of done with this book series. Onto Visions of the Future.
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Dec 26, 2021 17:38
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drat he didn't even get to the part where they journey to the center of the earth to ask a giant sentient pearl bed for advice.
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Dec 26, 2021 17:42
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Or all the insanity at the Jedi temple on Yavin that gets retold in I, Jedi, or Wedge dating the alien weapon designer lady, or like 90% of Daala’s madness.
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Dec 26, 2021 17:51
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Did you at least get to the part where Han and Kyp go xtreme skiing.
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Dec 26, 2021 17:52
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Update: Might give up on Dark Apprentice and just go to the Zahn books I have. First chapter was promising, stuff about Luke's Academy, but then we have a 100-page detour where Leia is once again sent on a diplomatic mission because ??? Seriously, so many problems with how Leia is getting used in this series. KJA is starting a grand tradition here of authors revealing exactly how much they don't understand what would be required to govern a city let alone a galaxy, of leia doing menial diplomatic poo poo when she's supposed to be a bigshot leader, and so on not sure if he started the "leia is lowkey racist" tradition too, it's been awhile since i read jedi academy
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Dec 26, 2021 18:10
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Zahn was able to give all the main characters something to do and thus a lot of the 90s EU book tried to do the same thing, but not as successfully. The Black Fleet Crisis is probably the worst example since the three main plots have nothing to do with each other, and both tertiary plot lines have incredibly unsatisfying endings.
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Dec 26, 2021 18:24
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I’d honestly rather reread KJA than reread black fleet crisis. Black fleet crisis was just so loving boring, besides the Wookiee invasion scene.
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Dec 26, 2021 18:34
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Casimir Radon posted:Zahn was able to give all the main characters something to do and thus a lot of the 90s EU book tried to do the same thing, but not as successfully. The Black Fleet Crisis is probably the worst example since the three main plots have nothing to do with each other, and both tertiary plot lines have incredibly unsatisfying endings. VaultAggie posted:I’d honestly rather reread KJA than reread black fleet crisis. Black fleet crisis was just so loving boring, besides the Wookiee invasion scene. Having reread the Black Fleet Crisis not that long ago as part of a long running reread of much of the EU, yeah, they're mostly a slog. The actual fleet stuff is interesting to me, but that's at best like a third of each book and everything else is meh at best (Luke's whole plot wasn't great then and aged like milk once the prequels came about). For all of the criticisms of KJA, and a lot of them are well deserved, I feel the Jedi Academy Trilogy are at least quick reads that move along for the most part. Compared to a lot of the other 90s EU stuff (Black Fleet Crisis, Children of the Jedi, Planet of Twilight, Crystal Star), where those books just drag and drag and drag.
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Dec 26, 2021 19:36
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Even before the prequels were out Luke’s plot is a lovely 3 book long bait and switch. I can’t imagine many people were left satisfied after finishing it. Some of the early EU novels had previews or summaries of other books in the back as advertising. I think I first read about BFC in the back of one of the Rogue Squadron books. It was after TPM came out so I was confused about how they handled revelations about the Luke and Leia’s mom. Turns out they didn’t do poo poo.
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Dec 26, 2021 20:23
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Arc Hammer posted:Did you at least get to the part where Han and Kyp go xtreme skiing. Yeah. Jazerus posted:KJA is starting a grand tradition here of authors revealing exactly how much they don't understand what would be required to govern a city let alone a galaxy, of leia doing menial diplomatic poo poo when she's supposed to be a bigshot leader, and so on What's frustrating there is all you have to do to get an inkling of how much goes in to running an organization is look at any local town meeting minutes, or even a local charity group. I help run a charity group of 30-200 guys (active vs. inactive) and we have meetings and reports on just running a pancake breakfast, with project leads/staff, etc. It really should be that hard. quote:not sure if he started the "leia is lowkey racist" tradition too, it's been awhile since i read jedi academy I didn't see it in there. Isn't that more of a conspiracy thing because Chewie didn't get his medal in ANH? Casimir Radon posted:Zahn was able to give all the main characters something to do and thus a lot of the 90s EU book tried to do the same thing, but not as successfully. The Black Fleet Crisis is probably the worst example since the three main plots have nothing to do with each other, and both tertiary plot lines have incredibly unsatisfying endings. I mean, JA had an easy out here; just have all of the main characters be involved in searching for Jedi. If you really wanted to involve Imperials, have one of the trio encounter a long-undercover group of Imperials dedicated towards exterminating all the Jedi, who see the new Academy as their target. I guess ideas are always easier in hindsight. fartknocker posted:For all of the criticisms of KJA, and a lot of them are well deserved, I feel the Jedi Academy Trilogy are at least quick reads that move along for the most part. Not going to lie, this reason alone is making me tempted to just finishing them so that I can say I did. I can knock out each one in 3-4 days. Just... not sure if I want to read anything else dumb.
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Dec 26, 2021 20:33
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Hell for Hand of Thrawn Zahn puts Chewie and the Solo kids on Kashyyyk after the first couple of chapters. Because Chewie plots are usually terrible, and the last thing the EU needed was another Solo kids in danger storyline.
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Dec 26, 2021 20:43
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:I didn't see it in there. Isn't that more of a conspiracy thing because Chewie didn't get his medal in ANH? I think it's more a case of the abysmal writing that Leia is subjected to over the course of the EU, which frequently leaves her angry and flustered over the smallest of diplomatic kerfuffles. She'll yell at people in the Senate and go away and think something like, "Oh, those perfidious Quarrens!" She really got done dirty. I just reread the Thrawn trilogy and while Zahn's idiosyncracies are more apparent than ever, it is kind of refreshing to have a Star Wars story where the problem is that everybody is too competent. fartknocker posted:For all of the criticisms of KJA, and a lot of them are well deserved, I feel the Jedi Academy Trilogy are at least quick reads that move along for the most part. Compared to a lot of the other 90s EU stuff (Black Fleet Crisis, Children of the Jedi, Planet of Twilight, Crystal Star), where those books just drag and drag and drag. Yeah, KJA is a bad writer, but he does as least keep things moving. The Crystal Star is the worst, but you've got books and entire trilogies where literally nothing happens.
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Dec 26, 2021 22:07
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The b and c-plot of the BFCT could have made serviceable short stories on their own, but then they got stretched over a whole trilogyRochallor posted:I think it's more a case of the abysmal writing that Leia is subjected to over the course of the EU, which frequently leaves her angry and flustered over the smallest of diplomatic kerfuffles. She'll yell at people in the Senate and go away and think something like, "Oh, those perfidious Quarrens!" She really got done dirty. I think a lot of writers get stuck on irritable Death Star Leia or Echo Base Leia and forget the trained politician/secret rebel part.
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Dec 26, 2021 22:21
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:I didn't see it in there. Isn't that more of a conspiracy thing because Chewie didn't get his medal in ANH? She also called him a walking carpet while he was helping to save her from the Death Star. And it didn't actually end up in the movie, but the rough draft of Empire had Leia being racist against Lando for being a clone.
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Dec 26, 2021 23:24
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Robot Style posted:She also called him a walking carpet while he was helping to save her from the Death Star. And it didn't actually end up in the movie, but the rough draft of Empire had Leia being racist against Lando for being a clone. 1) I mean I cut Leia a lot of slack in ANH, given that her home planet and entire culture just got genocided. 2) Pretty sure clones get a super bad wrap in the pre-prequel EU since most writers wrote the Clone Wars as being Clones vs. Everyone else. It's an interesting tidbit all the same. EDIT: VVV It's in the Thrawn trilogy mostly where a lot of characters just mention "The Clone Wars" and shudder at the horror that supposedly occurred. Mara Jade does that for one. Crazy Joe Wilson fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Dec 27, 2021 |
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Dec 27, 2021 00:31
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Zahn had Lando display anti-clone biases. Otherwise I don’t think it came up in 90s EU stuff.
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Dec 27, 2021 00:54
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Rochallor posted:
Cocking brows never gets old.
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Dec 27, 2021 03:43
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Animal Friend posted:Cocking brows never gets old. Point.
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Dec 27, 2021 03:45
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Cute pseudo-motion All of the sudden she had it I notice it but I don’t mind
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Dec 27, 2021 03:47
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Rochallor posted:I think it's more a case of the abysmal writing that Leia is subjected to over the course of the EU, which frequently leaves her angry and flustered over the smallest of diplomatic kerfuffles. She'll yell at people in the Senate and go away and think something like, "Oh, those perfidious Quarrens!" She really got done dirty. yeah, that and her constantly shifting attitude toward chewie. in one book he's her valued friend who's willing to take care of her kids, then in another she treats him like he's her husband's unusually smart but very smelly dog
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Dec 27, 2021 04:07
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Casimir Radon posted:Cute Snap-hiss
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Dec 27, 2021 06:56
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Just... not sure if I want to read anything else dumb. I want to say every EU book is going to be dumber than the last, but honestly, Jedi Academy gets really dumb.
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Dec 27, 2021 07:19
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Anderson's stuff is really dumb but there's a stupid goofiness to it that makes it far harder to hate than the worst bits of the EU.
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Dec 27, 2021 10:16
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