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I think the more “realistic” (such as that is) post-WWII where gay black Histler wins; in my mind is the one depicted in Fatherland TLDR the US and Nazi Germany are locked in a Cold War. The UK and most of Western Europe are Nazi client states, the East is all part of Greater Germany and the Germans are in perpetual war with Soviet partisans in the Urals. Japan is still defeated by the US in this universe.
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Dec 28, 2021 02:25
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Japan should've gotten them a gay black Hirohito
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Dec 28, 2021 02:36
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I think it's hard to say. One of the most important things to keep in mind is that neither country were exactly stable regimes, and on top of that likely would have had an immensely difficult time actually controlling the domains they had conquered. The development of nuclear weapons and the continued existence of the United States also throws a huge wrench into figuring out what the post-war global power dynamics would have looked like, though honestly the best guess is probably something like "Germany collapses into civil war after Hitler has a stroke in the '50s or something, and Japan withers and weakens while trying and failing to fight a dozen different insurgencies simultaneously". This mod rules and, while wacky, feels more plausible than most Axis Wins scenarios. Italy, Germany, and Japan end up as cold warrior enemies with Italy as a useless clusterfuck, the US is still there with nukes as another player, and Germany is completely incapable of actually ruling its conquests in Russia. Or anywhere else. Even the ostensibly pro-german russians are acting in their own interests to unite a fascist Russia, Germany has no influence on most of them beyond terror bombing raids, Himmler is rogue, Edward VIII's England is a failed state with a resistance more heavily armed than the army. The Reichskommissariats and the Reich all immediately start plotting as Hitler's health diminishes and it's a clusterfuck when he checks out. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 03:44
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I've been reading a little bit recently about the air war in World War 2, and one thing I was wondering about is how the command structure of the massive late war bomber raids worked. Some of the raids on Germany and Japan included over a thousand planes. Did these giant air raids bring along a general as a commander? That many people in a single operation would normally require a general/admiral to command, but I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere so I have been assuming they did not.
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Dec 28, 2021 05:49
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CrypticFox posted:I've been reading a little bit recently about the air war in World War 2, and one thing I was wondering about is how the command structure of the massive late war bomber raids worked. Some of the raids on Germany and Japan included over a thousand planes. Did these giant air raids bring along a general as a commander? That many people in a single operation would normally require a general/admiral to command, but I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere so I have been assuming they did not.
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Dec 28, 2021 05:53
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Yes.
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Dec 28, 2021 06:19
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I think my personal favorite "axis victory" scenario is from one of the GURPS Alternate Earths books. That one has a big old nazi victory that's alot like a sketch of the situation in the TNO mod, but it also includes another one that is somewhat different and a lot more restrained (I guess you could say). I'm pretty sure that in this one, as in many others, FDR is either assassinated or lost the 1932 election and was never president, in any case to set the US up for a situation where they're more isolationist and less capable to deal with the Great Depression effectviely. The important divergence point however is that following the Norway Debate, Lord Halifax becomes prime minister instead of Churchill. Then, following the fall of France, he approves opening talks with Germany, which results in Britain and Germany concluding a ceasefire. Halifax intends to rejoin the fight but does not really have the public or political support to do so, but sets about shoring up Britain's position in Africa, the Middle East and crucially, the Pacific. In the Pacific the British and Japanese come to agreeement, exchanging security guarantees and essentially splitting the remaindeer of the French and Dutch colonial empires between them. With this (and the West not being preoccupied with a war against Germany) Japan is able to continue prosecuting the war in China and does not end up going to war with America. In Europe Barbarossa mostly happens along historical lines, with possibly a stronger Axis position due to not being at war with Britain. However, also along historical lines, the Soviet Union does collapse, despite suffering catastrophic losses all the same. However bereft of Western (principally American) aid, the Soviet Union can't really prosecute the war as effectively as they could in our own history, probably suffering famine behind the lines and not having the trucks, trains and ammunition necessary to most effectively support and exploit sweeping counterattacks. By about '44 IIRC Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union have fought each other to an extremely bloody stalemate on frontline going roughly through eastern Poland and Western Ukraine, and that's the effective end of the war. Then what follows that is a situation where you essentially have a multi-sided cold war with the US working against British and Japanese colonial interests (who are also covertly working against each other) and (I think) providing aid to and helping to rearm the Soviet Union. Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union are technically still at war but with the cessation of large-scale hostitlies and the advent of nuclear weapons, the frontier as established in the 40s has become unofficially formalized.
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Dec 28, 2021 06:22
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Has suicide ever been a serious source of casualties for a military?
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Dec 28, 2021 06:33
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FPyat posted:Has suicide ever been a serious source of casualties for a military?
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Dec 28, 2021 07:37
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Also, pretty high chance of coming off as That Guy aside, I think most people consider suicide to be a pretty serious thing. Hence the phrase “serious as suicide”. I got what you meant but jesus, phrasing.
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Dec 28, 2021 08:05
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CrypticFox posted:I've been reading a little bit recently about the air war in World War 2, and one thing I was wondering about is how the command structure of the massive late war bomber raids worked. Some of the raids on Germany and Japan included over a thousand planes. Did these giant air raids bring along a general as a commander? That many people in a single operation would normally require a general/admiral to command, but I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere so I have been assuming they did not. I know British night raids had a "Master of Ceremonies" and at least one backup to dictate the course of the raid. Gallan talks about one raid they got them early on and it had a noticeable impact.
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Dec 28, 2021 10:00
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The Lone Badger posted:As I understand it, you start with the blade, which has a narrower portion called the 'tang'. You slide the quillions onto the tang. Then you push the grip into place, which holds the quillions in position. Optionally, peg the grip to the tang. Then you attach the pommel to the end, holding the grip in position. Finally you wrap the grip in cloth or leather. Traditionally it was said that the grip and the blade had to form a solid union, and for this to happen the grip had to 'woo' the blade. Therefore the hollow of the grip became known as a woo, and if this union was very strong it was called 'woo-tang clan'.
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Dec 28, 2021 10:32
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CrypticFox posted:I've been reading a little bit recently about the air war in World War 2, and one thing I was wondering about is how the command structure of the massive late war bomber raids worked. Some of the raids on Germany and Japan included over a thousand planes. Did these giant air raids bring along a general as a commander? That many people in a single operation would normally require a general/admiral to command, but I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere so I have been assuming they did not. It certainly could be a thing - Curtis LeMay of Strategic Air Command fame personally led heavy bomber raids piloting the lead plane when he was general.
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Dec 28, 2021 10:41
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MikeCrotch posted:It certainly could be a thing - Curtis LeMay of Strategic Air Command fame personally led heavy bomber raids piloting the lead plane when he was general. Note that this was less about making any command decisions when in the air, and more about leading by example. The early loss rates were very high (before arrival of effective escort planes), and crews were starting to abort flights before reaching the target due to dubious reasons. He was afraid that this would lead to an outright mutiny, so he both started to always fly in the lead plane, and threatened the crew of any plane that did not reach the target with court martial.
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Dec 28, 2021 12:06
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Nenonen posted:Traditionally it was said that the grip and the blade had to form a solid union, and for this to happen the grip had to 'woo' the blade. Part of me wants this to be true, even if it just a joke.
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Dec 28, 2021 13:19
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I remember reading in Command and Control that Curtis LeMay flying in the lead bomber came about because pilots were zig-zagging to avoid flak, which slowed the plane and made aiming harder for the bombardiers. LeMay flew lead to show that going fast and straight wasn't a death sentence.
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Dec 28, 2021 13:58
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I cant imagine zigzagging would do much anyway considering how far the flak gun is from the bomber, the angle would be tiny. It reminds me of the scene in generation kill where the reporter runs in a zigzag and everyone looks at him like he's suicidal
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Dec 28, 2021 16:30
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VostokProgram posted:I cant imagine zigzagging would do much anyway considering how far the flak gun is from the bomber, the angle would be tiny. It reminds me of the scene in generation kill where the reporter runs in a zigzag and everyone looks at him like he's suicidal Nah it was a pretty important deal and not the same thing at all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRd_AW1aZ8M The only problem was that on the final approach you couldn't keep changing direction and just had to eat the flak barrage on the way in.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:42
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FPyat posted:Has suicide ever been a serious source of casualties for a military? I've heard stories that a lot of the Romans trapped in the pocket at Cannae killed themselves before the Carthaginian's could get to them, though I don't have a solid source to back this up.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:58
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SeanBeansShako posted:Brief example from my copy of European Edged Weapons: Let's see what my copy of surivivng edged weapons says https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BiodegradableSolidBighornsheep-mobile.mp4 Huh. Not sure what that has to do with anything Would it be the same for a spear? Would the (typically wooden) haft be furniture? e: that post could be misread as me being an rear end in a top hat I was just referencing surviiving edged weapoins because it's funny to me ty 
Milo and POTUS fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 17:06
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Nenonen posted:Traditionally it was said that the grip and the blade had to form a solid union, and for this to happen the grip had to 'woo' the blade. Did you just.....reveal the woo-tang secret???
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Dec 28, 2021 18:02
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Solaris 2.0 posted:I've heard stories that a lot of the Romans trapped in the pocket at Cannae killed themselves before the Carthaginian's could get to them, though I don't have a solid source to back this up. To be fair this also sounds like the sort of thing later Romans would make up to make themselves sound hardcore. Masada, though, at the end of Judea's first revolt? It seems at least likely they suicided rather than surrrender (not that surrendering to the Romans in that situation is going to end well for you anyway, ask one Jeshua son of Joseph) feedmegin fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 18:12
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FPyat posted:Has suicide ever been a serious source of casualties for a military? The best example of this is probably going to be the Japanese in WW2. There were quite a few instances of people who would have otherwise been captured committing suicide. You see this with civilian populations too, most famously Saipan and Okinawa. I believe a fair number of the cliff suicides at Saipan were military, so there's that too. Then there are just bunches of anecdotes about suicide among the people who were unable to participate in the final, suicidal attacks by island garrisons that were on their last legs. Wounded, etc. here's a bit about the final assault at Attu quote:On May 28, he had only 800 men available for combat, plus 600 men who had been wounded over the last two weeks of fighting. Rather than surrendering, which was considered dishonorable, Yamasaki chose to make a daring move. He and his men would counterattack the Americans at their weakest point, capture their artillery on Engineer Hill, and use it against them. They would then sweep through the island to Massacre Bay, raid the enemy’s supplies, and retreat into the mountains to await reinforcements. Most Japanese soldiers saw the plan as a chance for an honorable death, not a great victory. That night, Dr. Tatsuguchi recorded in his diary, “[there are] continuous cases of suicide…. heard they gave 400 shots of morphine to kill wounded….” Now, you can question how much grenading and giving fatal morphine doses to your own wounded is suicide vs. euthanasia, but I've seen other accounts that clearly imply that the wounded are on-board for it and appreciate the help. This is a pretty steady drumbeat throughout anything having to do with the Japanese medical corps, as they're the ones who would be among the very last left on the field and the ones most likely to have people physically incapable of joining the final attacks. Here's an anecdote from an article about a surviving nurse from one of the medical groups on Okinawa quote:Some 500 high school girls in Okinawa were mobilized in nine nursing units. Many of those students were killed in the fighting between U.S. forces and the Japanese army. And there were also many who committed suicide — made to believe they would be raped if captured by American soldiers.
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Dec 28, 2021 18:21
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Nytimes had fascinating interview with 97 year old B-17 pilot who later made it big in artificial Christmas trees. In February ‘45 he had to make an emergency landing in Poland after a raid on Berlin. They were confined by the Soviets but treated ok but the Soviets weren’t in a hurry to send them home. quote:Despite confinement, the Americans largely did what they pleased. Over the coming weeks, the crews would go down to the Vistula and spend the day target shooting with rifles lent by the Russians. But life at Torun was mostly waiting. They gave up hoping for the C-47 transport plane. The official status of those flying on the B-17 43-38150 during the Berlin Mission: missing in action. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/17/nyregion/bomber-pilot-christmas-trees.html
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Dec 28, 2021 19:55
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Memento posted:Assuming we lived in a timeline where physics worked differently and both Nazi German and Imperial Japan achieved their stated goals (I'm not a hundred percent sure what they were, but I assume "complete domination of your hemisphere and subjugation/extermination of the other peoples there"), would they have eventually fought? My limited understanding is that racial purity was important to both of them and that having to "share" the world with a people who were the absolute Other was counter to that. I don't think war between them would've been inevitable. The Nazi view of race was based on racial purity, so they classified Germans and Japanese as "pure" races, while Eastern Europeans with their blend of European and Central Asian features were classified as inferior. It had little basis in actual history or ethnography, but allowed them to declare the racial purity of their allies of convenience and stave off conflict. The Nazis admired the southern US's segregation policies, but after the war began their propaganda depicted the US as a failing society because of mixing between the races.
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Dec 28, 2021 20:20
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Chamale posted:I don't think war between them would've been inevitable. The Nazi view of race was based on racial purity, so they classified Germans and Japanese as "pure" races, while Eastern Europeans with their blend of European and Central Asian features were classified as inferior. It had little basis in actual history or ethnography, but allowed them to declare the racial purity of their allies of convenience and stave off conflict. The Nazis admired the southern US's segregation policies, but after the war began their propaganda depicted the US as a failing society because of mixing between the races. Actually began before the war and very much tied to FDR becoming president. In Nazi propaganda Roosevelt is always portrayed as the puppet of Jewish financiers, often called something along the lines of "the chosen one of world Jewry". and though you aren't mistaken in saying there were elements of US history and society that appealed to the Nazis, with FDR president (which coincided with the Nazis coming to power in Germany) it would be America as a mongrelized democracy dominate by Jewish financial capitalists (who were also obviously behind bolshevism) that came to dominate in perceptions and depictions of America in Germany. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 20:29
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Fish of hemp posted:Did you just.....reveal the woo-tang secret??? Now we must remove his tang, forever.
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Dec 28, 2021 20:47
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Tuna-Fish posted:Note that this was less about making any command decisions when in the air, and more about leading by example. The early loss rates were very high (before arrival of effective escort planes), and crews were starting to abort flights before reaching the target due to dubious reasons. He was afraid that this would lead to an outright mutiny, so he both started to always fly in the lead plane, and threatened the crew of any plane that did not reach the target with court martial. Now I'm thinking what the Hollywood version of Soviet bomber forces would look like... "One bomber gets machinegun, the next one gets the bombs! Attack!" "URAAAAAAA!!!" "No... we can't take this flak anymore... must turn back to base..." *from clouds above dives a formation of NKVD fighter planes and shoots down the retreating planes*
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Dec 28, 2021 20:47
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Maybe it would be better to ask a much more grounded version of the question instead of going into the alt history weeds. Which is "Were there any potential sources of conflict between Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany?" The land and resources they were after were on opposite sides of Asia, which rules out any immediate causes.
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Dec 28, 2021 20:51
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Nenonen posted:Now I'm thinking what the Hollywood version of Soviet bomber forces would look like... gently caress it, I’d watch.
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Dec 28, 2021 20:54
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ponzicar posted:Maybe it would be better to ask a much more grounded version of the question instead of going into the alt history weeds. Which is "Were there any potential sources of conflict between Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany?" The land and resources they were after were on opposite sides of Asia, which rules out any immediate causes. The original Steel Panthers (1995) came with one silly scenario about Germany and Japan clashing in Indian jungle after the Axis won WW2. Potential sources of conflict? A primadonna like Hitler might suddenly remember that hey wait a minute, those fuckers fought us in WW1 and took over a bunch of German colonies in the Pacific! Them better apologize and give all that stuff back. But really, no. Neither one was really in a position of global conquest.
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Dec 28, 2021 20:57
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ponzicar posted:Maybe it would be better to ask a much more grounded version of the question instead of going into the alt history weeds. Which is "Were there any potential sources of conflict between Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany?" The land and resources they were after were on opposite sides of Asia, which rules out any immediate causes. Even if the US surrendered and the Japanese empire extended from Calcutta to Pearl Harbor or whatever, that's going to be a tough area to keep for very long. SE Asia's independence movements would all still end up happening and you'd be having Vietnam wars, Malaysian Emergencies, etc, surely with the United States funneling support to the insurgents.
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Dec 28, 2021 21:04
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gohuskies posted:Even if the US surrendered and the Japanese empire extended from Calcutta to Pearl Harbor or whatever, that's going to be a tough area to keep for very long. SE Asia's independence movements would all still end up happening and you'd be having Vietnam wars, Malaysian Emergencies, etc, surely with the United States funneling support to the insurgents. Did Hitler give a single poo poo about Germany's former colonies? IIRC he was dismisse towards the notion of giving any priority to getting them back. e: Also basically envisioning that Italy could have British and French possessions in Africa.
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Dec 28, 2021 21:27
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Hey all, I know this is the right place to ask. I want to play a cool turn based or real time tactics or a strategy PC game. I've really liked stuff like Battle Brothers, XCOM series, Advance Wars, (there was a ww2 sci-fi squad game that started normal, but then there were mechs, can't figure out the title). I've also played a bunch of RTS and World of Tanks in my day. I sort of searched around for some kind of tactical cover ww2/cold war game like these, and came up short. Any suggestions?
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Dec 28, 2021 21:32
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Nenonen posted:Now I'm thinking what the Hollywood version of Soviet bomber forces would look like... One plane gets the bullets, one gets the bombs, and one gets the fuel and has to tow the other two.
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Dec 28, 2021 21:41
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Randarkman posted:Did Hitler give a single poo poo about Germany's former colonies? Germany was never much of a colonial power, so probably not. They were content to reclaiming German colonies in Poland and the Ukraine.
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Dec 28, 2021 21:44
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LRADIKAL posted:Hey all, I know this is the right place to ask. I want to play a cool turn based or real time tactics or a strategy PC game. Silent storm is the name you Were looking for. It Also had a expansion ”sentinels” which is post-war and fixes the few issues the base game has. Highly recommend.
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Dec 28, 2021 21:45
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LRADIKAL posted:Hey all, I know this is the right place to ask. I want to play a cool turn based or real time tactics or a strategy PC game. There’s a bit of overlap between this thread and these two, but you may also want to ask in the Strategy games and Grognard games megathreads as well, since they’d likely know some suggestions.
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Dec 28, 2021 21:49
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LRADIKAL posted:Hey all, I know this is the right place to ask. I want to play a cool turn based or real time tactics or a strategy PC game. Check out Partisans 1941. It's a relatively recent Commandos style game.
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Dec 28, 2021 21:58
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LRADIKAL posted:Hey all, I know this is the right place to ask. I want to play a cool turn based or real time tactics or a strategy PC game. the various steel panthers: https://www.shrapnelgames.com/Our_Games/Our_Games.html
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Dec 28, 2021 21:59
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