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Charlatan Eschaton
Feb 23, 2018

BiggestOrangeTree posted:

I thought it was weird to have the beeping flashing wrist things on the plug suits show up twice displaying two different messages that you can only make out if you pause and zoom in. The first turning out to be essentially meaningless and the second, which you can't tell the difference just watching the movie normally, telling you that the character is going to die.

what are the secret messages in the wrist things? i never noticed them

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BiggestOrangeTree
May 19, 2008

Charlatan Eschaton posted:

what are the secret messages in the wrist things? i never noticed them





Charlatan Eschaton
Feb 23, 2018

huh, cool, i like the red and blue outlines there like she's going out of phase. the original ones had info on the back of the hand but those are closer to where the suit initialization switch goes.

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp
Was bored today so i fired up photoshop and made a few things then yeeted eva stuff over ham radio slow scan TV* to people all over north america today

https://twitter.com/jonny290/status/1449524606293790723


* sixty year old image transmission mode. fits in a voice channel. one pic is 320x256 and takes 73 seconds. but god drat it, it works. and you get super aesthetic distortions and fuzz-outs as the signals fade and such

Charlatan Eschaton
Feb 23, 2018

^nice. cool colors on the rei one

c/p from animation thread. referencing a character that grows legs to live in a new world and run off with a guy seems like a hint that mari could be lilith



Major Operation
Jan 1, 2006

Charlatan Eschaton posted:

^nice. cool colors on the rei one

c/p from animation thread. referencing a character that grows legs to live in a new world and run off with a guy seems like a hint that mari could be lilith





I'd be down for better explanations on Mari's origins, but I don't think there is any real support for this in the fiction. The creation of Mari was discussed pretty extensively in the "Evangelion 2.0 Complete Records Collection" book. It doesn't seem like there's anything that deep going on.

I also think they play fast and loose with the concepts of Lilith and Adam in the NTE because the new movies are, either partially or mostly, meant to be metanarrative about Evangelion. It might be "who is Mari really?" is not something they thought needed an answer.

The most obvious element that points to the movies as metanarrative is the last scene of 3.0+1.0. It is surely meant to tell the audience that "fifth impact should be your feet on some grass outside, nerds". Will that message actually be absorbed by the (sometimes literally) deeply invested audience? Probably not.

Charlatan Eschaton
Feb 23, 2018

I mean they don't straight up state who she is or where she came from in the movies but mari is pretty loaded up with symbolism from multiple ancient religions and has some visual similarities to lilith in her poses and outfits. The lilith on the cross never really does anything by itself until other characters take control of it like rei in eoe so it just seems like a cool idea that maybe this time around she's an actual person having fun doing things. Check my post history itt for some other connections, im probably wrong but i like reading about old religions and it's fun to speculate about.

She appears at the beginning of 222 fighting the third angel like Lalitha/Tripura Sundari/Ashwarooda fights Bhandasura coming out of a big egg shape that looks like a Shiva Lingam, a cosmic egg that gave birth to the universe. A union of the masculine and feminine recreating all of existence, merging the micro and macrocosmos.

https://santhipriya.com/2016/02/ashwarooda-devi-e.html posted:

Ashwarooda Devi led the cavalier sitting on a giant white horse holding a golden rod called ‘Dandam’ in her right hand. The power of the Dandam (Golden Rod) was such that it not only to controlled the mind and senses but also was able to absorb external energies including crucial five senses of each and everyone when commanded. The Horse which she rode was called Aparajitha meaning invincible and cannot be won-over by anyone. The war commenced.
 
Since the Dandam (Golden Rod) was fully under the control of Ashwarooda Devi, once she emerged from Tripurasundari, in a wink of moment she absorbed the entire powers of Bhandasura and his forces into her Dandam (Golden Rod) thus making them ineffective to fight further. The power stripped Asura forces were vanquished in the next wink of moment by the forces of Horse cavaliers. Tripurasundari Devi too wasted no time in killing Bhandasura in wink of moment. What was the principle theory established by these events ?
 
When one self controls the senses, all other thoughts and movements emanating from the brain become motionless and fail to act further. This principle has been actually exhibited when the Dandam (Golden Rod) in Devi Ashwarooda’s hand absorbed all the senses of the Asura forces and that of Bhandasura thus blocking the mind power to think and naturally ineffective to fight further.
 
Only Bhandasura’s physical body was annihilated after Devi absorbed all his senses along with his athman (soul) into her Dandam (Golden Rod) making him mentally dead, but left  his  body physically alive to be killed by Tripurasundari. This again established that both the birth and death emanated from the  same power i.e Parasakthi. Proactive Bandasura was created from the ashes by the divine power and the end too came to him through the same divine acting in another form called Ashwarooda Devi, who was created by Tripurasundari Devi, who was in turn created earlier by Goddess Parvathi from her power rays. Thus Ashwarooda Devi was indeed the shadow goddess of Parasakthi who herself created Ashwarooda Devi for limited purpose and role in another form.





https://magikindia.com/shivalingam/ posted:

This union is illustrated by a hindu myth. One day when Shiva and his consort Parvati were in their home on the peak of Mount Kailash, Parvati playfully covered Shiva's eyes. For these gods it lasted a fraction of a second, but Earth was plunged in darkness for years. Parvati had to perform many austerities to win back Shiva's trust, starting her penances in the Himalayas and finishing them on Arunachala Hill in South India. There Shiva appeared in a pillar of fire and light returned to the world. Shiva merged with Parvati to form Ardhanarishvara, a being that is half man, half woman.




Lalita in the Hindu denomination Shaktism, also known as Tripura Sundari, the beautiful lady of the three cities, expressing herself in Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva as creator, maintainer and destroyer of the universe.

https://yogainternational.com/article/view/the-legend-of-lalita posted:

Of the many great yogic goddess lineages, Lalita’s is preeminent. Self-willed and independent, Lalita is an exquisitely sensuous goddess also known as Kameshvari (“Empress of Desire”). At the same time, she is the completely devoted wife of the Supreme Lord Shiva, who is pure consciousness. She exists in a perpetual state of perfect harmony, ever benevolent, her eyes moist with compassion for all beings. Lalita is portrayed in the yoga tradition as a voluptuous young woman holding five arrows made of long-stemmed flowers, a bow made of sugarcane, a noose, and a goad. The arrows are our five senses and the bow with which they’re dispatched is our mind. When our senses are offered to the Goddess and our thoughts are directed to the Divine, our life becomes sweet and fragrant. But when we find ourselves pausing on the spiritual path, distracted by one thing or another, Lalita gently prods us along with her goad. If we resist her mild suggestion that it’s time to move forward in our spiritual unfoldment, she lassos us with her noose and drags us, like misbehaving children, back to her lap. From this perspective, life’s worst traumas are Lalita’s lariat; it is the fullest expression of her love for even her most wayfaring children. THE GLORY OF LALITA The deep inner significance of Lalita’s play with her devotees (her name means “she who plays”)

When the Goddess Lalita attacks, her arrows are long-stemmed flowers. She conquers not with anger or force, but with love. While Bhanda was never admitted into the Goddess’s inner chambers, little Bala was allowed in at once because Bala came running with innocent love. When we approach the Mother with that kind of pure devotion, she scoops us up in her arms and grants us victory. Those of us today seeking to understand the inner tradition of the Great Mother would do well to turn to the perennial wisdom of the yoga masters. The yogic path to the Goddess Lalita is called Sri Vidya (“The Supreme Science”). It leads us to the center of our own being, to the Great Goddess who is none other than the spiritual quintessence of our own divine nature. In the caves and monasteries of India’s ascetic adepts, and in the busy households of lay yogis and yoginis, the ancient worldwide tradition of the Goddess found its highest expression. Those of us today seeking to understand the inner tradition of the Great Mother would do well to turn to the perennial wisdom of the yoga masters.

Devī Bālā Tripura Sundarī, also known as Bālambikā, is the daughter and/or younger aspect of the Hindu Goddess Lalita

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bala_Tripurasundari posted:

Within the Brahmāņḍa Purāņa, Bālā Tripura Sundarī is mentioned in chapter 26 of the Lalitā Māhātmya, where she joins the battle against the forces of the arch-demon Bhaņḍa:[1] On hearing that the sons of Daitya Bhaņḑa the chief of whom was Caturbāhu had come for the purpose of fighting, Bālā (the daughter of Lalitā) showed interest in it. She was the daughter of Lalitā Devi. She came from the golden kavasa of lalita. She always stayed near the goddess. She was worthy of being worshipped by all Śaktis. She was adept in martial feats and exploits. Her form and features were like those of Lalitā. She was always like a nine-year-old girl, yet she was a great mine of all lore. Her body was like the rising sun. Her creeper-like slender body was [missing text] in complexion. She was perpetually present near the footrest of the great queen. She was as it were the vital breath of the goddess moving externally. She was her fourth eye. She became furious and thought thus : "I shall immediately kill those sons of Bhanda who have come here". After making up her mind thus, Bālāmbā submitted to the great queen. "Mother, the sons of Bhaņḑa, the great Daitya, have come to fight. I wish to fight with them. I am interested in this because I am a young girl. My arms throb with an itching sensation for war. This is my playful activity. It should not be curbed by your orders for prohibition. Indeed I am a girl loving toys and playful pastimes. By this play of fighting for a moment, I shall become delighted mentally." "Dear child, your limbs are very tender and soft. You are only nine years old. This is your first step and performance. Your training in warfare is fresh and recent. You are my only daughter. Without you, my breathing activity does not go on even for a moment. You are my very vital breath. Do not go in for the great war. We have Daņḑinī, Mantriņī and crores of other great Śaktis for fighting. Dear child, why do you commit this blunder?" Although prevented thus by Śri Lalitādevī, the girl was overcome by curiosity. She requested once again for permission to fight. On observing her steadfast decision, Srīlalitā, the mother, granted her permission after closely clasping her in her arms. She took off one of her armors and gave it to her. From her weapons, she gave her the requisite weapons and sent her off. Kūmārikā got into the covered palanquin that had been extracted by the great queen from the staff of her bow and to which hundreds of swans were yoked for drawing. She killed all 30 sons of the daemon Bhandasura which was extremely difficult to do.

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004

Yesterday, I watched all four movies back to back. It was my first time seeing them. I haven't watched the TV show since like 2005 or something. Its been a real long time. Anywho, I really liked the movies. They are flawed films, but something this ambitious and big, is going to have its issues with the narrative. For me, the big thing I really liked was the world and the lore. It was really good. And maybe because I had just recently finished Xenogears, the massive exposition dumps didn't bother me.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



RightStuf is starting to ship the BluRay sets.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I said come in! posted:

Yesterday, I watched all four movies back to back. It was my first time seeing them. I haven't watched the TV show since like 2005 or something. Its been a real long time. Anywho, I really liked the movies. They are flawed films, but something this ambitious and big, is going to have its issues with the narrative. For me, the big thing I really liked was the world and the lore. It was really good. And maybe because I had just recently finished Xenogears, the massive exposition dumps didn't bother me.

It's crazy to think that the first movie was released in 2007 and it was longer between the the first and forth movie then the original series and the first movie.

It's like when I found out Final Fantasy 7, 8, and 9 all came out in a 4 year window but FF15 took over 10 years to get made.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

pentyne posted:

It's crazy to think that the first movie was released in 2007 and it was longer between the the first and forth movie then the original series and the first movie.

It's like when I found out Final Fantasy 7, 8, and 9 all came out in a 4 year window but FF15 took over 10 years to get made.

Keep in mind in the time between Movie 3 and Movie 4, Hideki Anno 1) had another full-on mental break down, 2) made one complete modern tokusatsu movie and got knee-deep into the planning phase of a second one, 3) oversaw the production of one of the most visually complex 2D/3D hybrid animation projects in if not cinematic history, then at least Japanese cinematic history, and 4) had to get it across the finish line during a global pandemic that t-boned the entire entertainment industry particularly hard. The man had a couple of things on his plate between here and there.

That's not to say Final Fantasy had it easy either. Apparently making the jump to the full HD era of gaming was like trying to clear a shoulder-high hurdle for them because the engine they built to try and make games on the PlayStation 3 with didn't actually work, and the PS3's cell processor architecture was a black box contraption that not even loving SONY understood how it worked until studios like Naughty Dog, Santa Monica Studio, Guerilla Games, Insomniac and Kojima Productions each figured out little niches of it and then shared notes with each other that then combined into a complete picture that said "HOW TO MAKE ACTUALLY GOOD PS3 GAMES". Square was largely not privy to those secrets. They then gave the game that eventually became FFXV to a guy who went and frolicked in the wilderness for 8 and a half years before they ripped it out of his hands and gave it to a dude who they then crunched so bad to make the other 99.5% of the game that he left the company a broken shell of a man a two years after the game finally saw the light of day.


Basically, the technology to accomplish truly extraordinary things has improved by leaps and bounds in the past 20 years. It's the human factor that hasn't kept pace.

nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Dec 1, 2021

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant

pentyne posted:

It's like when I found out Final Fantasy 7, 8, and 9 all came out in a 4 year window but FF15 took over 10 years to get made.
In addition to what the poster above said, you also have to figure that (next to pre-rendered CGI) the largest space on the PS1 era FFs was audio.

The jump to HD gaming apparently came with *assloads* of costs when it came to in-game assets, modeling, rigging, etc.

FFXV's dev cycle was also part of their Fab Cystal New thing where they were going to have FFx Vs, FFx 2, etc. When that plan fell apart... it really, really crashed a bunch of poo poo

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



FilthyImp posted:

In addition to what the poster above said, you also have to figure that (next to pre-rendered CGI) the largest space on the PS1 era FFs was audio.

The jump to HD gaming apparently came with *assloads* of costs when it came to in-game assets, modeling, rigging, etc.

FFXV's dev cycle was also part of their Fab Cystal New thing where they were going to have FFx Vs, FFx 2, etc. When that plan fell apart... it really, really crashed a bunch of poo poo

Yeah, the move to HD explains some things, and the mess that was FFXIII and FFXIV's launch explains most of the rest, but there being an explanation for something and it being funny and/or disappointing aren't mutually exclusive.

Of course, for Eva the gap felt even longer because of where it fell. 3.0 was a daring choice, and it worked out in hindsight, but it basically threw out the playbook, and was intentionally a rough, confusing watch. Being left with it as the last word in the series for the better part of a decade made for interesting conversations.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

chiasaur11 posted:

Yeah, the move to HD explains some things, and the mess that was FFXIII and FFXIV's launch explains most of the rest, but there being an explanation for something and it being funny and/or disappointing aren't mutually exclusive.

I mean, it's mildly funny that as Final Fantasy XV neared its 8th year in development hell that Tetusya Nomura was fired from the director's chair by Square because he gave an interview with IGN where he talked about wanting to rip the entire thing up from the roots and make it into a massive musical because he watched Les Misérables and it blew his loving mind.

E: For the record, a big budget musical mainline Final Fantasy would be amazing. Final Fantasy XV was not the game to do it in. Or if it was, it should have been from the start rather than some lightbulb clicking on in Nomura's head after staring at an empty work file for seven and a half years and going "Hmmmm".

nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Dec 2, 2021

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant
For the record, I found FFXV to be a very satisfying (if somewhat uneven and, in later stages, confusing) work. It really becomes about that group of guys doing One Last Trip before their worlds go haywire and the relationships really make the game enjoyable.
There's a campfire scene towards the very end where Noctis kind of breaks down and admits he's accepted his fate, but doesn't want to leave everyone that was really effective.

nine-gear crow posted:

E: For the record, a big budget musical mainline Final Fantasy would be amazing.
FF but the hero is a bard and all the attacks are music based would be loving rad with PS5 graphics. They'd ruin it by DDR-ing the summons though.

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014

3.0 + 1.0 should have ended with Shinji and Mari driving away in the FFXV car tbh, that's my takeaway from this conversation.

Cephas
May 11, 2009

Humanity's real enemy is me!
Hya hya foowah!
Mari should have turned into a car so Shinji could drive away with her into freedom, as a red-orange car with green high beams yelled "Gaki Shinji! You're not the only ones who can turn into a car!" before crashing into the Golgotha Object.

Nikumatic
Feb 13, 2012

a fantastic machine made of meat

Cephas posted:

Mari should have turned into a car so Shinji could drive away with her into freedom, as a red-orange car with green high beams yelled "Gaki Shinji! You're not the only ones who can turn into a car!" before crashing into the Golgotha Object.

Yeah, Adolescence of Utena really is the best anime film ever made.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



The power to revolutionize the world is really messed up.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
i read somewhere that Ikuhara told Anno he should have shown Rei living out her life and growing old and have grandma Rei surrounded by her kids and their kids and while I don't hate the conclusion we got for that character I don't think I've ever seen anyone more right about someone else's art lol

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

ドーナツダメ!
I just marathoned the Rebuild films into my first watch of 3.0+1.01, and my initial impression is that the last movie was pretty garbage up until the last twenty minutes.

I appreciate what Anno was trying to do. But the execution all the way through 3.33 and 4.01 was terrible. The only reprieves being the slice of life stuff in the village and the conclusion starting with Ikari finally realize how much being a self-isolating loner is bad for you. That part hit a little close to home. I still consider the climax of 2.22 to be the pinnacle of the franchise. :colbert:

Major Operation
Jan 1, 2006

AlternateNu posted:

I just marathoned the Rebuild films into my first watch of 3.0+1.01, and my initial impression is that the last movie was pretty garbage up until the last twenty minutes.

I appreciate what Anno was trying to do. But the execution all the way through 3.33 and 4.01 was terrible. The only reprieves being the slice of life stuff in the village and the conclusion starting with Ikari finally realize how much being a self-isolating loner is bad for you. That part hit a little close to home. I still consider the climax of 2.22 to be the pinnacle of the franchise. :colbert:

I definitely agree that the pacing in 3.33 and 3.0+1.0 was uneven at best. The plot of 3.33 is just so far removed from your expectations after the original series and 2.22, and doesn't make much of an effort to address that problem. I think it is probably a mistake to try to ride from 3.33 directly into viewing 3.0+1.0 given that there was originally 9 years in between that set expectations and anticipation they could lean on.

3.0+1.0 was starting to take on a Duke Nukem Forever vibe there for a while, and really playing into any superstitions they may have had about the number 4 being bad luck. Perhaps they did it to themselves by having Unit 04 play to those ideas in the original series as well.

I started to read the James P. Hogan book Thrice Upon a Time, but I don't think I'm going to finish it. I know this book went through a bunch of reprints back in the day, but it is bad. It's not even funny-bad like God Emperor of Dune. I'm only a third of the way through but it is just punishingly boring and the characters are uninteresting. I haven't noticed any possible connection to 3.0+1.0 yet other than maybe something tangential about parallel timelines.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

ドーナツダメ!
Maybe it is just because it has been forever since I watched the series, but Anno seemed to have jumped even more of the shark with the nonsensical religious easter eggs.

Give the Spear of Longinus an opposite with the Spear of Cassius (the other name Longinus goes by in some Christian traditions)? Makes perfect sense.
Give Mari the (debatably apocryphal) surname of Judas? Sure, why not?

So, random other bits I noticed and random rants which people can slap me around on if I misinterpreted them. (In no particular order:)
- All the Eva pilots except Shinji are clones? That was the whole implication with Mari and Asuka not aging while also seeing Mari in Gendo's flashbacks and the two version of Asuka remaining in that shot of the wall of Asukas, right?
- It's been forever. But this Asuka has a different Japanese surname than the one in EoE, right?
- Was there another 3rd Impact after Shinji's N3I at the end of 2.22? Because the timeline on when/why Kaji would sacrifice himself in response is...unclear to say the least. He stole the Wunder in the confusion?
- And Wille still had enough tech/resources available after the land got blighted AND splitting with NERV to be able to design anti-blighting pillars? Like, what?
- And after the state we see NERV in after 3.33, SURPRISE. They have enough mass produced Evas to turn the last major battle into a mix of Gurren Lagann and Macross. :cmon:
- Was there really a purpose to have Mari's Unit 8(?) each 9 through 12 just so they could complete the cycle up to Unit 13? :what:
- I'm kind of mad we won't get a timeline where Kaworu is director of NERV with Ryoji as his handler.
- I'm also mad we didn't get more of long hair Rei. That's my favorite design I've seen of her. Also, her not having a billion kids in the reset timeline is some bullshit considering how Rei 9 bonded with Touji's kid.
- They really had to make Mari Shinji's reboot beau? Like, she still had basically no characterization after the last movie. She was straight Mary Sue all the way.

AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Dec 10, 2021

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



AlternateNu posted:

So, random other bits I noticed which people can slap me around on if I misinterpreted them. (In no particular order:)
- All the Eva pilots except Shinji are clones? That was the whole implication with Mari and Asuka not aging while also seeing Mari in Gendo's flashbacks and the two version of Asuka remaining in that shot of the wall of Asukas.

Asuka and Rei are clones (with Rei being mass produced to have spares, while Asuka's mass production run was whittled down through harsh training to get the ultimate pilot) but the not aging comes from being Eva pilots, not from being clones, thus the whole "Curse of Evangelion" thing. Mari was apparently the first person to pick up the condition from early LCL experiments, back when she was a teen prodigy researching metabiology with Yui and company. (Thus her talk with the Prof like they knew each other for a long time.)

Punkin Spunkin
Jan 1, 2010

chiasaur11 posted:

(with Rei being mass produced to have spares, while Asuka's mass production run was whittled down through harsh training to get the ultimate pilot)
Didn't pick up on this dichotomy but i like it a lot. It's like the only interesting thing added by making her a clone too tho imo.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant
The value of shared experience vs individual drive.

It seemed like a cheap trick but I like that it informed their characterizations. Asuka hates that she's 'programmed' for certain things, Rei accepts it.

runwiled
Feb 21, 2011
My feelings on 3.0+1.0 are that it's a very mixed film with some great moments. As others have said, the village segment is very strong and then it descends into a very uneven experience.

I think my ultimate thought on the film is that it doesn't work very well as an end to a narrative spanning years and four movies, but it does function superbly as an end to Neon Genesis Evangelion as a franchise and cultural phenomenon.

MechaX
Nov 19, 2011

"Let's be positive! Let's start a fire!"

runwiled posted:

I think my ultimate thought on the film is that it doesn't work very well as an end to a narrative spanning years and four movies, but it does function superbly as an end to Neon Genesis Evangelion as a franchise and cultural phenomenon.

There's a point where Gendo explictly mentions Shinji refusing Instrumentality which was never a thing he did in Rebuild at any point, but told me "oh okay, this movie is definitely meant to follow up and conclude the series too." and I was just along for the ride at that point.

Zebulon
Aug 20, 2005

Oh god why does it burn?!

AlternateNu posted:

- Was there another 3rd Impact after Shinji's N3I at the end of 2.22? Because the timeline on when/why Kaji would sacrifice himself in response is...unclear to say the least. He stole the Wunder in the confusion?
- And Wille still had enough tech/resources available after the land got blighted AND splitting with NERV to be able to design anti-blighting pillars? Like, what?
- And after the state we see NERV in after 3.33, SURPRISE. They have enough mass produced Evas to turn the last major battle into a mix of Gurren Lagann and Macross. :cmon:
- I'm kind of mad we won't get a timeline where Kaworu is director of NERV with Ryoji as his handler.

Wille rebelled against NERV around the point of proper 3rd Impact, which is different from Near 3rd Impact that Shinji caused at the end of 2.22 despite the fact that so many seem to conflate the two and blame Shinji for 3rd Impact proper. The anti-blight pillars are based on the research Kaji was so invested in (part of?) at that water reclamation plant in 2.0 that he takes the kids to, apparently you can see something or other that looks like one there. So presumably the pillars were already being designed and put into production at that point since there was one in the middle of Paris and it wasn't under WILLE's control. I think Anno said that he might yet circle back around and do the original 3.0, which would have shown Kaji and Kaworu running NERV like the bits we see of it at the end of 3.0+1.0. WILLE had to salvage components from Euro NERV's Paris branch to rebuild Unit 8 and used the Jet Alone components to rebuild Unit 02, which you'd think would be reversed given they were spare parts for Unit 02 in the first place but, well, Anno has a god drat fetish and Eva 02 has to suffer for it. NERV meanwhile was absurdly automated by that point and just cranking out Evas from various facilities just fine on its own apparently. With most of them being automated they were probably using them to gather the resources to build more in the first place. I suspect that original-3.0-idea movie we might get would shed light on just how the hell that was happening.

Y
Sep 29, 2004

it's time to step up

chiasaur11 posted:

Mari was apparently the first person to pick up the condition from early LCL experiments, back when she was a teen prodigy researching metabiology with Yui and company. (Thus her talk with the Prof like they knew each other for a long time.)

This is a good explanation for how she's alive, but not a good explanation for how she knows the future. SEELE has the Dead Sea Scrolls, but they obviously don't say "Mari, you have to make sure to pick up some quantum entanglement parts from Paris and make your Eva 'overlapping-compliant' so that later you can kill and absorb the Opfer Type Evas in order to travel through the antiuniverse and save Shinji Ikari". And yet Mari knows in advance she has to do all of this.

quote:

Was there another 3rd Impact after Shinji's N3I at the end of 2.22? Because the timeline on when/why Kaji would sacrifice himself in response is...unclear to say the least. He stole the Wunder in the confusion?

The end of 2.0 where Unit 01 starts going ham, and the event where Kaji chose to somehow sacrifice himself to stop the destruction of the world are different events. It's possible the latter was a necessary or inevitable reaction to the former. However, many of the characters do not appear to be aware of this, even though they should be, and continually refer to both events as the same thing and treat Shinji as though he is the party most responsible for the event where Kaji died and most of the world was blighted.

Y fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Dec 13, 2021

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007
most of them weren't present for either. then there's misato, who cheered on the first and was fully aware that shinji had nothing to do with the second.

Y
Sep 29, 2004

it's time to step up

gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

most of them weren't present for either. then there's misato, who cheered on the first and was fully aware that shinji had nothing to do with the second.

Is the idea that Misato just lied to everyone for 15 years, falsely blaming Shinji for everything, and Ritsuko and Mari and Asuka and any other NERV people who witnesses the end of 2.0 went along with it? Kaji let this happen before he died, or else Misato fooled him too? And she lied so well that people who have never met Shinji or weren't even born when he disappeared the last time are viscerally repulsed by his presence?

Why on earth would this happen? Why wouldn't she just blame Gendo or Fuyutski or the people who ran SEELE exclusively? As far as she knows Shinji is dead or in some kind of hell inside Evangelion Unit 01, why was he the top of the list in blame?

The only reasonable explanation is that the Impact that killed Kaji really is primarily Shinji's fault somehow, in a very direct way, but this doesn't make any sense either.

E:

In 3, Misato asks if it's really Shinji, and Ritsuko replies that his dental records and other data match "Near Third Impact." The implication in that film is that she means "your records from before you disappeared into Unit 01", meaning that N3i means the end of the 2nd film. However in 4 it is made clear this term refers to the later event that destroyed the world.

Y fucked around with this message at 10:10 on Dec 13, 2021

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007
misato didn't lie to scapegoat shinji, i don't think. she just had a whole lot of guilt and treating him like garbage was a tried and true method to cope with it. she was never exactly a good person and the hard years between 2 and 3 didn't make her any better.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Y posted:

This is a good explanation for how she's alive, but not a good explanation for how she knows the future. SEELE has the Dead Sea Scrolls, but they obviously don't say "Mari, you have to make sure to pick up some quantum entanglement parts from Paris and make your Eva 'overlapping-compliant' so that later you can kill and absorb the Opfer Type Evas in order to travel through the antiuniverse and save Shinji Ikari". And yet Mari knows in advance she has to do all of this.

Yeah, that one's more conspiratorial. Mari and Fuyutsuki have been plotting behind Gendo's back, setting up an alternate plan for the end.

Fiyutsuki has been playing both sides, trying to do what Yui would want, which means advancing plans for both Gendo and Mari, his two brightest remaining students, who both claim to be acting for what Yui would want.

With one hand, he moves Gendo's son towards his destiny. And with the other, he sets up Mari's emergency backup option, so she can go in and save the day if it turns out Gendo was wrong.

Mari's straightforward and direct, unlike most of the cast, saying what she means and meaning what she says. But that doesn't mean she says everything.

Nyeehg
Jul 14, 2013

Grimey Drawer
So has anyone here received their collectors edition/ultimate editions yet? I won't get mine until January but am curious to see what people think of it.

Will be nice to have a physical HD copy of the ADV dub again. As much as I prefer the ADV/manga dub due to nostalgia the upscale makes it hard to go back to the old dvds (particularly the movies).

On a side note, does anyone know if the dub for the platinum collection was a redub? I never got hold of that so can't be sure.

Mackerel Cornflake
Mar 26, 2021

Enami was able to
obtain that cereal
through illegal
channels.


Nyeehg posted:

On a side note, does anyone know if the dub for the platinum collection was a redub? I never got hold of that so can't be sure.

I have both the Platinum and Perfect ADV dub DVDs, so I can confirm the dubs are somewhat different. I think they mostly rerecorded secondary and ancillary character dialogue. The only thing I really remember is that the voice for Hyuga is radically different. They may have brought Spike, Grant, Lee, and Keith to rerecord lines, but the performances are mostly the same.

That's just my memory though. I'm sure there are folks around here nerdier than me to keep the record straight.

Szmitten
Apr 26, 2008

Mackerel Cornflake posted:

The only thing I really remember is that the voice for Hyuga is radically different.

My understanding is that there is some kind of in-joke for english Eva dubs where Hyuga is always performed by the ADR director, which is why he always changes significantly between productions.

Heran Bago
Aug 18, 2006



I watched the series End Of movie, and four rebuild movies, all for the first time, over the month. It was very interesting. Still taking it in.

What was Mari's personal issue or mental struggle? All the other characters have obvious trauma or emotional issues.

P-Mack
Nov 10, 2007

Heran Bago posted:

I watched the series End Of movie, and four rebuild movies, all for the first time, over the month. It was very interesting. Still taking it in.

What was Mari's personal issue or mental struggle? All the other characters have obvious trauma or emotional issues.

The moral of the story is that at some point you just gotta grow up and pick the girl with big boobs and no issues.

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The REAL Goobusters
Apr 25, 2008

Heran Bago posted:

I watched the series End Of movie, and four rebuild movies, all for the first time, over the month. It was very interesting. Still taking it in.

What was Mari's personal issue or mental struggle? All the other characters have obvious trauma or emotional issues.

She represents a new path forward for shinji

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