(Thread IKs:
bunnyofdoom)
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I work for the ministry of education in BC which has gone full in on 'school is the most important thing', even in Delta. Apparently they did a bunch of research on it and calculated the damage to kids was worse by keeping them out of school rather than possibly exposing them to covid. Most of the feedback from parents has been positive, as people who aren't comfortable / have the ability to teach / childcare from home have still been keeping their kids at home. I don't have kids, so I don't have an opinion either way to be honest, I don't know enough about children.
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Jan 13, 2022 18:07
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I'm just assuming at this point that Ontario's dogged insistence on reopening schools on Monday (with the apparent widespread support of parents) will mean that the other things that were supposed to reopen on January 27 will not.
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Jan 13, 2022 18:18
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Especially for young kids school is a time where they learn important socialization stuff and if they don’t get that you’re going to wind up with elementary schools full of goons by the end of it
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Jan 13, 2022 18:19
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TheKingofSprings posted:Especially for young kids school is a time where they learn important socialization stuff and if they don’t get that you’re going to wind up with elementary schools full of goons by the end of it How important is the "crowding dozens into a small poorly-ventilated room in a respiratory disease pandemic with lovely/no masking" aspect? I don't think anyone in this thread is complaining about the idea that kids could use some things they usually get at school. The complaints are about the implementation.
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Jan 13, 2022 18:22
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tagesschau posted:I'm just assuming at this point that Ontario's dogged insistence on reopening schools on Monday (with the apparent widespread support of parents) will mean that the other things that were supposed to reopen on January 27 will not. That seems like a safe bet, unless we just say "gently caress it" and stop restricting anything based on case counts. The changes to testing and reporting will only get us so far.
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Jan 13, 2022 18:25
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PT6A posted:It's basically Homer's argument "sure lowering the speed limit will save lives, but millions will be late!"
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Jan 13, 2022 18:26
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infernal machines posted:That seems like a safe bet, unless we just say "gently caress it" and stop restricting anything based on case counts. Yeah, you can close schools, close basically every other indoor activity, or close the intake departments of all the hospitals once they fill up. "None of these" is not an available option.
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Jan 13, 2022 18:29
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Mellow Seas posted:Setting aside Mr. Simpson's analysis of that particular policy, the speed limit is actually a great example of risk-benefit tradeoffs. Otherwise we would lower it to walking speed and eliminate all traffic deaths. I mean, we could also just design our cities better and eliminate a ton of traffic deaths, but that'd require meaningful effort as well as pissing off the car/oil lobbies.
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Jan 13, 2022 18:47
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Oxyclean posted:I mean, we could also just design our cities better and eliminate a ton of traffic deaths, but that'd require meaningful effort as well as pissing off the car/oil lobbies. Oh hell yes. Car culture was possibly the biggest mistake in a century full of huge mistakes.
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Jan 13, 2022 18:48
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tagesschau posted:I'm just assuming at this point that Ontario's dogged insistence on reopening schools on Monday (with the apparent widespread support of parents) will mean that the other things that were supposed to reopen on January 27 will not. I fully expect gyms and indoor dining to be closed for another month. Maybe until after family day Maximum lol if they open them on the announced date, then slam them shut again a week later. Send kids back to the unventilated classrooms so the adults can go to work in unventilated office towers. gently caress your health, make us money. Meat for the machine.
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Jan 13, 2022 18:55
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The school situation is such a poo poo show. I have two kids who will both be 2x vaccinated +14 days this weekend, my partner and I both got boosted last week. We live in a part of Toronto with high vaccine uptake and I have about 30 rapid tests on a shelf in my dining room. My kids both have N95 quality masks to wear everyday. Basically we've done all the right things (we're in a privileged position obviously) and we're still trying to figure out what to do on Monday. If the Omicron wave is cresting in Ontario, there's no reason the schools can't wait another 2 weeks to go in-person. We may just do it ourselves anyways. I can't find any data on the effectiveness of 2x vaccination for 5-11 year olds against Omicron probably because it doesn't exist. If anyone can help me out there please share.
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Jan 13, 2022 19:15
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Whatever option Doug chooses, it will most likely be the worst one. I'm tired of pushing back against the dumb attitudes at work. My boss being mad about 'lockdowns' when we've never locked down, she's just mad that in-person dining isn't open so we have less business. It's been like pulling teeth trying to convince some of my vax-hesistant co-workers to get the shots; some of them got the first two shots but now don't want to get the booster. We have a mix of cloth and surgical masks still and I'm just waiting for my box of N95s to arrive while doubling up on surgicals, which I've been doing since Delta.
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Jan 13, 2022 19:16
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The thing is, we don't want to catch it. However, if we were going to catch it (and I suspect this is very likely) right now our immune systems are very primed to fight it off. That's my dilemma.
Another Bill fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Jan 13, 2022 |
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Jan 13, 2022 19:19
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Another Bill posted:However, if we were going to catch it right now our immune systems are very primed to fight it off. I'd love to see the venn diagram of "people who believed this" and "people who died of covid."
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Jan 13, 2022 19:49
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Another Bill posted:The thing is, we don't want to catch it. However, if we were going to catch it right now our immune systems are very primed to fight it off. That's my dilemma. My immune system was very primed to fight it off, and now I wake up with headaches and there's a chorus of square wave shrieking where silence used to be But little timmy got to see the sohcahtoa dance in-person this year so who can say if this is bad or not
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Jan 13, 2022 19:49
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Another Bill posted:The thing is, we don't want to catch it. However, if we were going to catch it (and I suspect this is very likely) right now our immune systems are very primed to fight it off. That's my dilemma. Same, and also it'd save me $300 in tests in February  World is a gently caress, punished for doing the right thing.
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Jan 13, 2022 19:51
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flakeloaf posted:
You can have a mature discussion about the subject without pretending that education isn't important
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Jan 13, 2022 20:10
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Bleck posted:I'd love to see the venn diagram of "people who believed this" and "people who died of covid." So would I.
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Jan 13, 2022 20:11
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The "people who died of covid" part of the "believed this" circle would be well under 5% of the circle. Because a vast majority of people who get covid don't die of it. That's what makes it so hard to stop the disease from spreading or make people take it seriously, and what makes the cumulative public health impact so devastating.
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Jan 13, 2022 20:19
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Mellow Seas posted:The "people who died of covid" part of the "believed this" circle would be well under 5% of the circle. Because a vast majority of people who get covid don't die of it. That's what makes it so hard to stop the disease from spreading or make people take it seriously, and what makes the cumulative public health impact so devastating. And if we're talking 'people who believed this who died and were vaccinated' it would be a lot smaller. Like maybe .1%.
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Jan 13, 2022 20:22
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Not to mention the people who were exposed but never contracted the disease. There's a real weird "actually vaccines don't work" turn happening in the thread...
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Jan 13, 2022 20:22
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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pokeyman posted:How important is the "crowding dozens into a small poorly-ventilated room in a respiratory disease pandemic with lovely/no masking" aspect? This got me wondering something, which I'll ask the thread generally: Is there a rate of spread in schools that is acceptable? Or is anything above zero unacceptable?
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Jan 13, 2022 20:23
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The studies whose headlines I've casually glanced at before scrolling down to the conclusions seem to give the impression that a rate of spread lower than that seen in the community is "acceptable". Given how very good omicron is at spreading in the community, I can't see some large percentage of this number being thought of as "good"Fart Amplifier posted:You can have a mature discussion about the subject without pretending that education isn't important I'm not mocking the idea that education is important, I'm mocking the supposed binary choice between "attend physical classes in person" or "participate in an in-class mock-school that's as much like the real thing as we can swing". The latter is stupid because in-school educators are having understandable trouble maintaining order and quality instruction, and making parents sit through the attempt because that's the only way to make sure the seven-year-old stays in the chair pretending to focus sounds like a torment that should be reserved for people who leave shopping carts in parking spaces, and kids who scatter legos on the walking part of the carpet. The former is stupid because, even if sending children physically to a school that is actually equipped and able to put the sorts of effective, layered protections in-place that are consistent with reduced covid spread were something we'd committed to - and it demonstrably is loving not (in Ontario, anyway) - that'd still mean accepting increased infection rates among staff (cf. "teachers'), which makes the existing labour shortage and class size problems worse, and that'll just get the school closed anyway flakeloaf fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jan 13, 2022 |
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Jan 13, 2022 20:29
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Whatever happened to HEPA filters in every classroom and free, mandatory KF94+ masks and alternating weeks at <50% capacity?
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Jan 13, 2022 20:40
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flakeloaf posted:The latter is stupid because in-school educators are having understandable trouble maintaining order and quality instruction, and making parents sit through the attempt because that's the only way to make sure the seven-year-old stays in the chair pretending to focus sounds like a torment that should be reserved for people who leave shopping carts in parking spaces, and kids who scatter legos on the walking part of the carpet. There's for sure teachers who are smart about this and doing a good job. My older kid despised online school last year because it was largely what you describe, just pretend that it's a normal school day on zoom. This year, his teacher is much smarter about it - more than half is independent projects in breakout rooms with his friends, it's more self-guided, and he's responding really well to it and enjoys online school. But yeah, that's more of an anomaly, since teachers were given zero training on online or remote instruction, and so it's a total crapshoot how well your kids teacher is going to do with it.
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Jan 13, 2022 20:51
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OSSTF ( ontario high school teachers union ) is having an emergency meeting tonight to "review the work refusal process" I'm trying not to be cynical about this. Maybe they'll actually take a stand.
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Jan 13, 2022 21:04
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eXXon posted:Whatever happened to HEPA filters in every classroom and free, mandatory KF94+ masks and alternating weeks at <50% capacity? Also why haven't teachers been near the top of the vaccine list since day 1? The whole thing has been a clusterfuck.
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Jan 13, 2022 21:09
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eXXon posted:Whatever happened to HEPA filters in every classroom and free, mandatory KF94+ masks and alternating weeks at <50% capacity? Ontario schools had needed that back before SARS had a sequel, and boy was there some "deferred maintenance" on that front
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Jan 13, 2022 21:16
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Another Bill posted:OSSTF ( ontario high school teachers union ) is having an emergency meeting tonight to "review the work refusal process" It is my understanding that a lot of members are not happy about the return to in-person learning on Monday, so everyone is scrambling to figure out how to deal with that
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Jan 13, 2022 21:48
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This thread is hard to gauge sometimes, but does anyone strongly think that covid won't just become endemic? This is of course a separate question to what we should be doing about it now.
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Jan 13, 2022 21:52
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I think the endemic horse has already left the barn AND we should still be managing hospital capacity at least until therapeutics are widely available, which should be in 6 months or so. Letting it rip uncontrolled is going to kill a lot of people with asthma, diabetes, cancer, autoimmune diseases... just a lot of people who really don't need to die.
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Jan 13, 2022 21:59
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Tsyni posted:This thread is hard to gauge sometimes, but does anyone strongly think that covid won't just become endemic? I mean, it demonstrably has already. Probably we should be looking at building out healthcare capacity to adjust to the inevitable oncoming waves of infection, so that at least we can treat the majority of cases without completely collapsing the system. Or I guess we could just keep trying to restrict things at random a few times a year in the hope that we won't significantly overwhelm the capacity we have now too frequently.
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Jan 13, 2022 22:03
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Tsyni posted:This thread is hard to gauge sometimes, but does anyone strongly think that covid won't just become endemic? I've thought this since reading a piece in the Economist sometime in mid-2020. Once the vaccines started to roll out I began to move my opinions more towards opening up, as a 95% effective vaccine was pretty darn close to victory.
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Jan 13, 2022 22:37
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Anecdotal, but out of everyone I work with who has kids, the only ones who want to go back are the young ones (8 and under) because they miss their friends. All the other are either indifferent or are enjoying the virtual schooling.
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Jan 13, 2022 22:46
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Count Roland posted:a 95% effective vaccine was pretty darn close to victory. It was incredible, and then it turned out not to matter in terms of case counts with new variants, and well, there's probably no reason to expect any different in future.
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Jan 13, 2022 22:48
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infernal machines posted:It is my understanding that a lot of members are not happy about the return to in-person learning on Monday, so everyone is scrambling to figure out how to deal with that Ford told the public that the government implemented changes during the down time too add more layers of protection to help combat the new variant. The teachers unions are saying they havnt heard of or seen any changes other than the province cutting their ability to track or test in schools. If I was a teacher I would be telling Ford and all his supporters to go be the teachers since they always claim its such an easy and safe job. Let the teachers run the province while the Cons teach grade 6 math.
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Jan 13, 2022 23:01
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There's ~120,000 teachers in Ontario I believe. They should just strike, the government won't be able to bust the union and replace 120,000 people.
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Jan 13, 2022 23:12
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Parent Teacher "Volunteers"
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Jan 13, 2022 23:30
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Fried Watermelon posted:Parent Teacher "Volunteers" Parent-Teacher Associates
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Jan 13, 2022 23:35
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Public Parent Partnerships
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Jan 13, 2022 23:38
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