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Frogcroakley posted:Aww, you're all being well nice. Thank you <3 A quick behind the scenes question, if you don't mind. I buy most of my 40k stuff through Audible. Do you get paid fairly for your time and effort that way? Why or why not?
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Jan 17, 2022 04:59
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OPAONI posted:why not? Amazon
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Jan 17, 2022 12:39
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the panacea posted:I just finished Reign and I want more. Hook it straight into my veins. gently caress it, I'll get in on that train as well. I'll get Ruin for my January's Audible credit.
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Jan 17, 2022 16:23
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D-Pad posted:Next week has some great new stuff: oh nice, krieg and genestealer audio books right in time for monthly audible tithe.
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Jan 18, 2022 01:59
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are the thousand sons any less cruel or murderous than other chaos legions? a friend of mine just started them and is convinced they're more moral than ultramarines.
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Jan 18, 2022 02:19
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Reign was very good. Hook it up to my veins indeed!
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Jan 18, 2022 02:21
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Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:are the thousand sons any less cruel or murderous than other chaos legions? a friend of mine just started them and is convinced they're more moral than ultramarines. nah. they are monsters but most of them are literal haunted armor or weird super sorcerers who do emperor knows what horrors. i mean if your gonna pick chaos, nurgle seems better sorta.
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Jan 18, 2022 02:22
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Reject the gods, embrace the pirate life with the Red Corsairs.
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Jan 18, 2022 02:32
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Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:are the thousand sons any less cruel or murderous than other chaos legions? a friend of mine just started them and is convinced they're more moral than ultramarines. Like most of the chaos legions, they're initially shown off in the Horus Heresy books as showing a lot of promise and benefit for humanity. They embrace good governance and seem to offer a return to the Age of Technology, now with the benefit of hindsight. Thousand Sons are often depicted as being unwillingly cast out of the Imperium, and having turned to extreme magic due to being attacked and driven to the edge of ruin by the Space Wolves and the Emperor. Left to their own devices, they probably would have happily built some knowledge-based techno-wizard library world. That being said, Magnus was reckless in his pursuit of knowledge at all costs, and the Sons have generally been intelligent without being wise. Most of the Sons have been turned into empty constructs at this point, or have sold their their souls for power, and they have few compunctions at this point. It is possible that some of the few remaining leaders might still support humanity in their hearts, and are simply biding their time for the right opportunity to finally tip the balance. But I wouldn't consider them particularly moral. Most of them would happily watch a planet burn just to increase their Power Score by 1.
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Jan 18, 2022 02:32
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Kaal posted:and driven to the edge of ruin by the Space Wolves and the Emperor. That's a very interesting way to put it, ignoring Horus's tremendous role in the matter.
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Jan 18, 2022 02:37
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Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:are the thousand sons any less cruel or murderous than other chaos legions? a friend of mine just started them and is convinced they're more moral than ultramarines. no, but they are Sad
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Jan 18, 2022 02:40
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Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:are the thousand sons any less cruel or murderous than other chaos legions? a friend of mine just started them and is convinced they're more moral than ultramarines. I kid around about Chaos being the good guys sometimes but the truth is that the Loyalists and Traitors are pretty much exactly as bad as each other
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Jan 18, 2022 02:43
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Like many other Warhammer questions the answer do as you want. Want to play a chaos army that's secretly trying to achieve good in the galaxy despite the heresy? Go for it. Or maybe your dudes were a fleet caught in a warpstorm before the heresy and now they're trying really hard to blend in. There's room for as much creative expression as you want.
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Jan 18, 2022 02:45
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AnEdgelord posted:I kid around about Chaos being the good guys sometimes but the truth is that the Loyalists and Traitors are pretty much exactly as bad as each other I'd still rather live in Ultramar than the Eye of Terror. Mind, that's not saying much but still.
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Jan 18, 2022 02:48
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Telsa Cola posted:That's a very interesting way to put it, ignoring Horus's tremendous role in the matter. "My super duplicitous eldest son swears up and down that my younger son broke the rules and hates me. Guess I gotta have my middle son murder them without confirming."
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Jan 18, 2022 02:48
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Theres like one TS, Azahaman or whatever, whose entire driving purpose is to undo the curse that hosed over like 99% of the legion and bring his lost brothers back. As far as I am aware only he and maybe some sorcerers allied with him have actual decent goals. All the other sorcerers are generic cackling madmen. Also the Lamenters are the good guys. It's why they keep getting hosed over.
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Jan 18, 2022 02:49
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AnEdgelord posted:I kid around about Chaos being the good guys sometimes but the truth is that the Loyalists and Traitors are pretty much exactly as bad as each other Nah, there's pretty clear moral differences involved. The Imperium might blow up an inhabited world because they believe it undefendable and allowing it to fall would jeopardize hundreds of other worlds. Chaos would blow up a world because it's funny.
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Jan 18, 2022 02:52
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Kaal posted:"My super duplicitous eldest son swears up and down that my younger son broke the rules and hates me. Guess I gotta have my middle son murder them without confirming." The orders were intercepted mid transit and changed. The Emperors orders were literally something along the lines of "tell him off and bring him back so we can find out whats going on" Edit: I may have gotten the exact sequence of events wrong but the lore is pretty explicit that both the Emperor and Russ did not want to kill Magnus or burn Prospero and that outcome is a direct result of Horus and Chaos fuckery. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 02:52
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Telsa Cola posted:Theres like one TS, Azahaman or whatever, whose entire driving purpose is to undo the curse that hosed over like 99% of the legion and bring his lost brothers back. Ahriman caused all the trouble that he's trying to undo.
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Jan 18, 2022 02:53
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Kaal posted:Nah, there's pretty clear moral differences involved. The Imperium might blow up an inhabited world because they believe it undefendable and allowing it to fall would jeopardize hundreds of other worlds. Chaos would blow up a world because it's funny. thats just not true, The Imperium blows up a ton of worlds for entirely spurious reasons people seem to forget that "Loyalist" includes psychos like the Black Templars or the Flesh Tearers
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Jan 18, 2022 02:55
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AnEdgelord posted:thats just not true, The Imperium blows up a ton of worlds for entirely spurious reasons Sometimes the reasons are they hosed up the excel sheet, but Extermenatus generally does not get thrown around willy nilly, if only because its somewhat difficult to authorize.
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Jan 18, 2022 02:59
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it was my understanding that to get anything done chaos wise you need to do poo poo like build towers made out of corpses in the course of sacrificing entire planets. that's a word bearers example and they're one of the less overtly bloodthirsty legions.
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Jan 18, 2022 03:07
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Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:it was my understanding that to get anything done chaos wise you need to do poo poo like build towers made out of corpses in the course of sacrificing entire planets. that's a word bearers example and they're one of the less overtly bloodthirsty legions. It depends, you can summon demons and poo poo with like an orgy party for Slannesh or a murder or two for khorne if you do it right. Becoming a daemon prince is a bigger ask and yeah it sometimes takes a whole planet.
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Jan 18, 2022 03:17
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Telsa Cola posted:The orders were intercepted mid transit and changed. The Emperors orders were literally something along the lines of "tell him off and bring him back so we can find out whats going on" To my mind at least that removes too much agency. There's a reason that Horus maneuvered the Wolves into being the guys to swing the axe rather than the Ultramarines, because ultimately Guilliman's legionaries would never accidentally genocide a human world. Russ and the Emperor created a bunch of technobarbarians to be the "executioners", and they did exactly what they were created for. I'm not minimizing Horus' ultimate culpability here, and it's absurd that this sort of command wasn't delivered in person by a bunch of Custodes. But Russ was the one who built a horde of attack dogs that could be let off the chain, and the Emperor was the one who created such dysfunctional people with such immense and unrestricted power.
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Jan 18, 2022 04:18
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The Thousand Sons tend to focus more on big picture stuff, so they don't really get into the more personal psychopathic stuff like the other traitor legions do. I remember a bit in the first Black Legion book where Khayon notices a human bowing to him. He states that he doesn't care what they do as long as they stay out of his way.
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Jan 18, 2022 04:22
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Just finished Twice-Dead King Reign and this poo poo rules It makes me hope that GW makes it possible to play full Flayer Dynasties
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Jan 18, 2022 04:27
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I also just finished TDK: Reign and drat that was extremely good. I really really want a book from the crusade perspective. I kept thinking throughout "I wonder what is happening in the crusade right now? What are they thinking and how are they viewing what is going on?" I think there are some very interesting possibilities there. drat, just an excellent book. Definitely to the necrons what Night Lords did for the Night Lords and Lords of Silence for Nurgle. Also please give me a spinoff following the adventurers of gestalt scarab and Xott.
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Jan 18, 2022 08:58
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Nuclear War posted:I'd still rather live in Ultramar than the Eye of Terror. Mind, that's not saying much but still. One of the jokes of 40k is that the imperium sucks so bad that living in a hell dimension and worshipping evil gods is a plausible alternative for many of its citizens.
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Jan 18, 2022 12:49
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I actually feel like it’s a bit of a missed opportunity. 40k *could* show chaos as a viable alternative to the Imperium and maybe make us question some of those fascists choices a bit but every depiction of a chaos society from the inside makes it seem so cartoonishly abhorrent that the imperium, for all its fascism, is clearly better. The imperium is awful to live in but chaos cultures in 40K are pretty much all tubs of blood, mandatory cenobite surgery, cannibalism etc.
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Jan 18, 2022 13:44
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so my birthday is coming up. so i got this. https://warhammerart.com/shop/warhammer-40000/imperium/ciaphas-cain-choose-your-enemies/ art print of big size. DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:I actually feel like it’s a bit of a missed opportunity. 40k *could* show chaos as a viable alternative to the Imperium and maybe make us question some of those fascists choices a bit but every depiction of a chaos society from the inside makes it seem so cartoonishly abhorrent that the imperium, for all its fascism, is clearly better. The imperium is awful to live in but chaos cultures in 40K are pretty much all tubs of blood, mandatory cenobite surgery, cannibalism etc. i mean one of the points is the imperium's horribleness chases people into the arms of the various other monsters and depending on the god, you probably view all that poo poo as either cool gift from grandpa or "makes me hornier" or makes it easier to spill blood. i do however like how most of the chaos marines are painted as basicaly sunk cost monsters. they are so deep in blood and pain and horror because they got tricked or turned traitor over slights or their primarch was a broken piece of poo poo that they kinda just accept it.
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Jan 18, 2022 13:51
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That's one of the readons Traitor General is so highly regarded. From the perspective of the average fruit grower on Gereon, nothing changed. All the wild augmetics to let people pick fruit better were already installed vefire Chaos showed up.Telsa Cola posted:Theres like one TS, Azahaman or whatever, whose entire driving purpose is to undo the curse that hosed over like 99% of the legion and bring his lost brothers back.
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Jan 18, 2022 13:59
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Arquinsiel posted:That's one of the readons Traitor General is so highly regarded. From the perspective of the average fruit grower on Gereon, nothing changed. All the wild augmetics to let people pick fruit better were already installed vefire Chaos showed up. except that’s not true at all, the occupation of gereon is incredibly hellish (they literally call it the “Days of Pain”) and daily life for the citizens is being slowly tortured to death. The ghosts repeatedly come across signs of people’s prior lives pre-invasion that paint them as simple and sometimes hard but containing meaning and worth and moments of happiness. under Chaos, though, the people are degraded to an almost feral state by the insane cruelty of the occupation. In the end when Gereon is “liberated” most of its population has been subject to genocide and the planet itself has been perhaps irreparably damaged by the theft of its oceans and food. There are examples of slightly more functioning chaos societies in the lore (nurth) but Gereon is the one I was thinking of when I wrote that post. Under the Imperium, Gereon’s people were basically serfs with no rights. Under Chaos, they’re basically farm animals, subjected to psychotically over-the-top slavery and eventually slaughtered. I think a more compelling story is the one dapper swindler describes, where chaos seems alluring and by the time you figure out it’s much worse than the imperium it’s too late.
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Jan 18, 2022 14:28
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It's a stone cold fact that the only good faction are the Genestealer Cults. At least it's an ethos.
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Jan 18, 2022 14:33
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The only real difference I took from it is that they weren't allowed worship as they pleased and the occupying forces hoarded all the spare parts. Other than that the ecological devastation caused by the monoculture of a foreign species was basically bog standard Imperial world stuff.
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Jan 18, 2022 14:35
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Shirkelton posted:It's a stone cold fact that the only good faction are the Genestealer Cults. At least it's an ethos. Star children shall have their feast and I will hear nothing to the contrary. The only thing we have to lose is hair.
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Jan 18, 2022 14:38
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Arquinsiel posted:The only real difference I took from it is that they weren't allowed worship as they pleased and the occupying forces hoarded all the spare parts. Other than that the ecological devastation caused by the monoculture of a foreign species was basically bog standard Imperial world stuff. Chaos wants to use the planet up as an expendable resource, they're literally stealing the planet's water with weird warp creatures. The Imperium has an interest in keeping the planet around as a long term source for food and soldiers. It's the difference between working your slaves to death to build a monument and being a medieval landowner ruling a bunch of serfs. By the time the Ghosts return to Gereon, it's starting to become depopulated. The villages and towns they used previously are mostly deserted and filled with bones.
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Jan 18, 2022 14:52
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Yes, and Gaunt tries to talk people out of exterminating the survivors and just starting over in a few centuries because that is what the Imperium does.
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Jan 18, 2022 14:56
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Yeah but this isn’t a counterinsurgency in our world where that would be impossibly evil, the population of the planet has been implanted with chaos worms that track their moves, branded with magical symbols, eating and drinking chaos tainted supplies etc etc
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Jan 18, 2022 15:11
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You can also see the difference between the human lower-deck crews of Imperial and Chaos ships. Both live horrible lives enslaved to the ship that is their home but in Chaos ships the crew have to contend with higher rates of mutation, possession, and being hunted by demons and/or Chaos marines whenever the whim strikes. Both suck, but one sucks more. What Chaos offers that the Imperium doesn't is a sort of might-makes-right freedom to seize your own destiny. If you fail, you get turned into a spawn and/or your soul eaten by a demon, but the chance for greatness is there for anyone brave/strong/clever enough to seize it. Gravitas Shortfall fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 15:40
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:I think a more compelling story is the one dapper swindler describes, where chaos seems alluring and by the time you figure out it’s much worse than the imperium it’s too late. I think that one of the reasons that GW created the Dark Imperium storyline is that it helps them tell that sort of story. There is no question that life on Macragge is pretty good these days - the environment is good, the economy is good, the government is stable, there's an expanding trade network, etc. It's an example of the empire at its best, and it seems pretty similar to other sci-fi colony worlds like Reach from Halo. On the other hand, you've got planets in the Imperium Nihilus like Baal, where the inhabitants are barely holding it together after a major Tyranid attack and the Blood Angels are way too busy dealing with Chaos incursions / Necron threats / Tau expansion to do much to help them, even if they were inclined (which they are not). Giving up and hanging out in Nurgle's Garden enjoying an narcotic flesh-eating plague might sound like a better alternative to some of those feral serfs than continued grinding existence on the edge of the Imperium's dominion.
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Jan 18, 2022 15:52
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