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Mega64 posted:So D&D could be considered a FF ripoff? Not unless it started using iconic FF elements like jumping dragon knights and wizards with pointy yellow hats that obscure their face who use elemental magic
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Feb 18, 2022 00:44
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I can't make an objective mechanical breakdown of 4e years later like this, but i can say it was absolutely a terrible match for me and my group. The extensive list of abilities and effects made every character creation a chore and relatively simple battles could take hours because we would try to plan every round for maximum effectiveness. So i'm not saying that it's bad, but it turned even the most relaxed members of the group intro tryhard min maxers. Comparatively, 5e has been a chill experience. 4e had a great character creation app though.
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Feb 18, 2022 00:48
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derra posted:It was outclassed for me when a confused Sabin SUPLEXED HIMSELF. Live by the suplex, die by the suplex. 
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Feb 18, 2022 00:51
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Frionnel posted:I can't make an objective mechanical breakdown of 4e years later like this, but i can say it was absolutely a terrible match for me and my group. The extensive list of abilities and effects made every character creation a chore and relatively simple battles could take hours because we would try to plan every round for maximum effectiveness. The best version of 4e was the Gamma World adaptation. Character creation was random and all the bullshit was stripped out.
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Feb 18, 2022 01:03
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D&D 4E probably took some inspiration from video games but the roles come more from the iconic D&D party of Fighter, Cleric, Thief and Wizard than MMOs in particular. Of course, that same iconic party is the likely origin of the Holy Trinity that many, many video games would follow and iterate on so it's all pretty connected. Hell, those are most of the FF1 jobs, bringing it back around to being topical to this thread.
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Feb 18, 2022 02:33
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WrightOfWay posted:D&D 4E probably took some inspiration from video games but the roles come more from the iconic D&D party of Fighter, Cleric, Thief and Wizard than MMOs in particular. Of course, that same iconic party is the likely origin of the Holy Trinity that many, many video games would follow and iterate on so it's all pretty connected. Hell, those are most of the FF1 jobs, bringing it back around to being topical to this thread. My understanding is that the holy mmo trinity is more directly inspired by MUDs, where it was actually a quad of tank, healer, defensive buffer, and mezzer that got refined over time. Now, that can be inspired by D&D, but the line is longer and more wobbly than some might think
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Feb 18, 2022 02:39
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Which is funny because 4e had 4 main roles - Defender (tank) Leader (buffs/heals) Striker (dps) Controller (debuffs/forced movement)
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Feb 18, 2022 02:51
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Mordiceius posted:Which is funny because 4e had 4 main roles - I remember the main disappointing thing they dropped after 4e was the Leader class Warlord, which solved the ongoing 'healers have to be wizards' problem by just making a very inspiring military leader as a healer. Which as I understand was also prime for fun reskins. I remember hearing about someone who played their Warlord as an incredibly irritating and insulting escort mission, who inspired everyone to do better out of spite.
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Feb 18, 2022 03:16
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taichara posted:I bring more tidings of great joy for the VI crowd, your train will splat properly: Hell yes 
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Feb 18, 2022 04:00
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Final boss music sounds like it belongs in donkey kong
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Feb 18, 2022 04:04
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drumming out dancing mad IV using the donkey konga barrels hell yeah
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Feb 18, 2022 04:05
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Cleretic posted:I remember the main disappointing thing they dropped after 4e was the Leader class Warlord, which solved the ongoing 'healers have to be wizards' problem by just making a very inspiring military leader as a healer. I'm probably Pretty Bad At D&D i guess but my last 5e character was a big tanky dwarf cleric and I ended up being the de facto healer as well, which was pretty neat. Guiding Bolt for like 20 damage and then Healing Word someone for 8-10 was always a great turn. I played her like a Pratchett dwarf down to the religion which made for some fun interactions, too
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Feb 18, 2022 04:07
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17m37s shitpost incoming https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhEck7aB-Qc
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Feb 18, 2022 04:08
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Oh okay. I've never seen a more anticlimactic final boss in an rpg
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Feb 18, 2022 04:15
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These are nonsense opinions
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Feb 18, 2022 04:17
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"Hahaha I'm the god of magic nothing can stop me except five casts of Ultima. " Actual dialogue from Kefka
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Feb 18, 2022 04:20
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Gaius Marius posted:Oh okay. I've never seen a more anticlimactic final boss in an rpg This is a problem I still have with FFVI. If you're even remotely completionist, you completely blow out the scale that the final boss is expecting.
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Feb 18, 2022 04:20
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I mean Goner as coded is a split-damage attack that takes three eternities to resolve and the only real threat is Train randomly loving you with statii but if the fight has gone that long you are playing with your food
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Feb 18, 2022 04:20
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Gaius Marius posted:"Hahaha I'm the god of magic nothing can stop me except five casts of Ultima. " That atma weapon you gambled away would have made it just silly.
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Feb 18, 2022 04:24
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Eight-Six posted:17m37s shitpost incoming Dancing Mad is good but FFIV, V, VIII, IX, and X have better final battle themes
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Feb 18, 2022 04:27
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HD DAD posted:Dancing Mad is good but FFIV, V, VIII, IX, and X have better final battle themes you are wrong on all counts, and I judge you for it.
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Feb 18, 2022 04:29
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Dancing Mad is crazy ambitious for a SNES game but not actually all that great, yeah.
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Feb 18, 2022 04:29
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HD DAD posted:Dancing Mad is good but FFIV, V, VIII, IX, and X have better final battle themes  Zeromus battle theme doesn't get enough recognition among the fawning over dancing mad/one winged angel
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Feb 18, 2022 04:30
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Zeromus' theme punches insanely above its weight though I concur and somehow every version past the original hosed it up in minute ways
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Feb 18, 2022 04:31
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I read the first volume of Final Fantasy Lost Stranger and Naoki Yoshida is one of its supervisors. The guy’s involved with so much
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Feb 18, 2022 04:33
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Will the terrible FF6 opinions stop now that we are at the end of Gaius' journey? I sigh as I turn toward the horizon of next week and February 23rd. pretty soft girl posted:
Absolutely correct.
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Feb 18, 2022 04:33
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FFIV simply has a perfect set of battle themes. They're all absolutely fantastic from start to finish with Zeromus being an amazing conclusion. Also if IX's final battle theme is Necron's, Dancing Mad is definitely better than that. If we're talking Dark Messenger, maybe
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Feb 18, 2022 04:35
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NikkolasKing posted:FFIV simply has a perfect set of battle themes. They're all absolutely fantastic from start to finish with Zeromus being an amazing conclusion. IV’s battle themes are all loving stellar. Like they still stand up with the best of the best. I will defend Necron’s theme to the death though. It slaps. Dark Messenger leaves me a bit cold.
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Feb 18, 2022 04:41
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Evil Fluffy posted:including the combat system and its use of cooldowns on skills. All those things are true of earlier versions of D&D as well! The reason people are making fun of you is because these kind of design bits have been part of the system since at least Advanced, and really flourished in 3.X! The whole "It's too much like a video game! It's too combat focused!" even though it's got just as much real estate to non-combat as 3.X (AKA Not really that much comparably) is grognard poo poo from people mad that 4E wasn't just a reprint of 3.X, including Mearls himself who had nothing to do with 4E until Essentials, which was trying to make 4E more into what 3.X was like (by being really lovely design). Appealing to authority only works if the authority isn't also known to be incredibly loving dumb.
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Feb 18, 2022 04:47
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Truly you can't effortlessly destroy the bosses of... let me check my notes... almost every other Final Fantasy game in under a turn. I mean FF6 is easy as piss, don't get me wrong, but if you are remotely completionist you are going to utterly ruin the final boss of almost every game. I don't think any of them are really designed with ultimate weapons in mind alone.
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Feb 18, 2022 05:03
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ImpAtom posted:Truly you can't effortlessly destroy the bosses of... let me check my notes... almost every other Final Fantasy game in under a turn. When I say 'remotely completionist' I should say that I just mean 'did all the major, non-bullshit sidequests'. So with VI that means all party members and espers, plus maybe the Mage Tower. That approach blew Kefka to bits so fast he skipped phases without much effort, but that 'non-bullshit' clause takes away most of the really overpowered poo poo for VII, leading Safer Sephiroth to still be pretty beefy even if he's not all that hard. Zeromus seems to be balanced for that presumption of sidequest completion, so he throws down pretty well. I remember Necron being a pretty tough one. NeoExDeath's difficulty has more to do with systems mastery than personal power, so completionism might not even help. In related games, Chrono Trigger doesn't exactly bend to breaking from completionism, Lavos Core is still probably gonna give you trouble.
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Feb 18, 2022 05:18
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Gaius Marius posted:Oh okay. I've never seen a more anticlimactic final boss in an rpg 
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Feb 18, 2022 05:26
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Another bad offender of final bosses that splat is XII's. Especially since a good chunk of the fun in it is hunts and exploring. XIII's leveling system at least caps the party power somewhat so it's not a steam roll.
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Feb 18, 2022 05:27
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I straight up thought I was getting another phase until it went Sepia
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Feb 18, 2022 05:31
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Mustached Demon posted:Another bad offender of final bosses that splat is XII's. Especially since a good chunk of the fun in it is hunts and exploring. You can definitely demolish the final boss of XIII pretty hard but it's a lot more knowing the system mechanics than just having too high raw stats. It's a good approach, though it does have the side effect that a fair bit of optional content is functionally locked to post game, since the last crystarium upgrade is tied to beating the final boss.
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Feb 18, 2022 05:34
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WrightOfWay posted:You can definitely demolish the final boss of XIII pretty hard but it's a lot more knowing the system mechanics than just having too high raw stats. It's a good approach, though it does have the side effect that a fair bit of optional content is functionally locked to post game, since the last crystarium upgrade is tied to beating the final boss. Incidentally, I think that 'system mastery difficulty' does color discussion of difficulty here a little. We're all exactly the types of people to internalize how to really cheese a game's system, so a game that's largely pinning its difficulty on 'figure it out yourself' is considered pretty easy around here, especially older ones where we already have figured it out ourselves.
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Feb 18, 2022 05:55
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Orphan is hands down the hardest FF boss and it's not even close. Even on my second run when I was trying really hard to understand the battle system and I had actually unlocked an additional Role for everybody, I just couldn't win. They have a ton of health and after a while they start blasting me with status effect and Death and I didn't know what to do because (and this is something SMTV taught me) having symbols for status ailments is loving stupid. I didn't know what I had and thus what to equip to protect against it. Only way I won in my first run was to cheese it with Poison, which transforms the fight from impossible for me to a total joke which is why I wanted to win without it in my second run but I just couldn't. Maybe third time's the charm whenever I play XIII again. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Feb 18, 2022 |
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Feb 18, 2022 05:57
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WrightOfWay posted:You can definitely demolish the final boss of XIII pretty hard but it's a lot more knowing the system mechanics than just having too high raw stats. It's a good approach, though it does have the side effect that a fair bit of optional content is functionally locked to post game, since the last crystarium upgrade is tied to beating the final boss. That's the same sort of result as V really. Mechanic knowledge and a plan can womper stomper Ned. The tree's a tough rear end boss without some depth of job knowledge.
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Feb 18, 2022 06:06
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NikkolasKing posted:Orphan is hands down the hardest FF boss and it's not even close. Even on my second run when I was trying really hard to understand the battle system and I had actually unlocked an additional Role for everybody, I just couldn't win. They have a ton of health and after a while they start blasting me with status effect and Death and I didn't know what to do because (and this is something SMTV taught me) having symbols for status ailments is loving stupid. I didn't know what I had and thus what to equip to protect against it. Nope. Neo Exdeath is harder. I've played both games recently and it's crazy how much harder Neo Exdeath is if you're not just throwing gil and summoning. And even then it's basically a damage race because he can just gently caress you if he wants to. I dunno maybe I was underleveled or something but Orphan is not nearly that hard even if you don't know that Poison works.
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Feb 18, 2022 06:17
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What kind of a dumdum actually fights Neo ExDeath? You can skip him entirely
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Feb 18, 2022 06:17
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