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skylined! posted:Windowed light isn't direct light. This also gets confusing. Glass filters UVB light. At the end of the day your plant is better off getting sun right next to the window than a few feet from it. Your best bet is to let it stay near the window and check it daily. sometimes windows can cause light focusing and burning/hot spots. My parents’ living room has spots that will laser kill plants that generally do great in tons of sun, even high desert plants Agreed that AJ should start by putting the palm by the windowsill with daily checks. Ideally for the palm, it would probably be out on the patio by the end of April.
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Feb 18, 2022 23:52
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Ok Comboomer posted:sometimes windows can cause light focusing and burning/hot spots. My parents’ living room has spots that will laser kill plants that generally do great in tons of sun, even high desert plants Ya that's fair. And conversely newer windows may also have UVA shielding that filter even more light. Best bet is to experiment, but leaving the plant a few feet from a window is just killing it slowly.
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Feb 18, 2022 23:55
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I've got a handful of low-light stuff (Ferns, Fittonia, Calathea, Pepperomia, Pothos, Snake plants) 7-8 ft from windows and they all seem to be doing well for the last 6mo or so since I bought them. The Bamboo Palm was one one them for about 3mo until I got the Kentia and moved it into a smaller corner that also happens to be 2ft from a sliding glass door. It's been happy enough to flower, despite our Minnesota winter gloom. They're mostly in rooms with quite a few large windows and room lighting that's on a lot, though, so perhaps better than average "8ft from a window" situations. Maybe I'll find out in time that it wasn't enough and they'll all take a turn for the worse, but it hasn't happened yet. Certainly ActionJackson's palm will do better closer to the window, and artificial light wouldn't hurt either, but I'm not sure the current spot will be quite such a disaster? Still, I think these posters have been doing this a lot longer than me, so AJ if I steered you wrong, I apologize! At the least you all convinced me to order a proper light meter instead of relying on a phone app, and I'll re-evaluate some of my placement choices when that arrives.
Lakitu7 fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Feb 19, 2022 |
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Feb 19, 2022 01:02
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Lakitu7 posted:I've got a handful of low-light stuff (Ferns, Fittonia, Calathea, Pepperomia, Pothos, Snake plants) 7-8 ft from windows and they all seem to be doing well for the last 6mo or so since I bought them. The Bamboo Palm was one one them for about 3mo until I got the Kentia and moved it into a smaller corner that also happens to be 2ft from a sliding glass door. It's been happy enough to flower, despite our Minnesota winter gloom. They're mostly in rooms with quite a few large windows and room lighting that's on a lot, though, so perhaps better than average "8ft from a window" situations. Maybe I'll find out in time that it wasn't enough and they'll all take a turn for the worse, but it hasn't happened yet. Certainly ActionJackson's palm will do better closer to the window, and artificial light wouldn't hurt either, but I'm not sure the current spot will be quite such a disaster? Still, I think these posters have been doing this a lot longer than me, so AJ if I steered you wrong, I apologize! At the least you all convinced me to order a proper light meter instead of relying on a phone app, and I'll re-evaluate some of my placement choices when that arrives. I have a large coffee tree next to a fully shaded north facing window that put on another 4" since last autumn. Not all plants need the same thing, and it's okay to try them out in different places. I have a parlour palm that would not like sitting right next to my windows, so it's sitting on an interior wall and is perfectly happy. It's a bright enough room with S & E windows, but it just takes some testing and being okay with moving things around. Trying to gauge light in northern latitudes in February is difficult anyway.
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Feb 19, 2022 01:12
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Arsenic Lupin posted:(sobs in envy) I would take home all the scented geraniums. Every single one. Arsenic Lupin posted:I have ordered from all three of these and gotten plants in great condition which throve. In my experience, if you want plants that you won't see on every other street in town, mail-order is the way to go. There's a whole list in the third post of 'da thread  Forest Farm at least has been on there since this version of the thread started.Also how you gunna talk about unusual plants without mentioning Plant Delights? skylined! posted:Windowed light isn't direct light. This also gets confusing. Glass filters UVB light. At the end of the day your plant is better off getting sun right next to the window than a few feet from it. Your best bet is to let it stay near the window and check it daily. Yeah, all of the light requirement poo poo can get quite complex particularly when you add grow lights into the mix, but even your sunniest window is nothing like "full sun" because of the glass. UVB burns the poo poo out of things. There are very few plants (spathiphyllums a noteworthy exception) I have seen/hosed with that will really be happy 6+ feet away from the closest window. A huge chunk of the plants that are sold as wanting low light are actually just capable of surviving long term in low light, they don't do better in it. Dracaena (snake plants) will grow wildly faster if you get them near some actual light. Epipremnum will continue to grow fine without much light, but the leaves will get three or four times the size if you get them in front of a window, etc. Edit: Also re: Monsteras, check out this boy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jQTAH76wH0&t=1240s Wallet fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Feb 19, 2022 |
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Feb 19, 2022 01:17
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Arsenic Lupin posted:(sobs in envy) I would take home all the scented geraniums. Every single one. While we're wistful about far-away nurseries, I don't know where you live or how it compares to Logees, but when I used to live in Sacramento I loved to ride out to this place in Vacaville: https://morningsunherbfarm.com. They've got a whole greenhouse full of weird scented geraniums, one of weird scented mints, one of weird scented sages, one of weird scented basils, etc. For mail order I don't know how they compare to the places in post 3 but in-person it was so amazing to just go and smell everything. It'd be a reasonable drive for any SF-area goons. Since I moved to MN I've never been able to find even regular boring lemon-scented geraniums. One nursery in town has a greenhouse just for geraniums and I thought I'd hit the jackpot but there's not a single scented one except "citronella". I found unlabeled "citronella" once someplace else that the attendant called "lemon geraniums" and I bought one because it's been so long that I've forgotten what the real thing even smells like, then realized my mistake the next time I saw them at Home Depot and compared  . Somehow I never even thought about trying to order one online. Maybe I'll try it in the Spring, but I don't know how those do for overwintering indoors? That citronella I bought is etiolated as heck but it's hanging in there and should survive until I can get it outside again in May. Wallet posted:A huge chunk of the plants that are sold as wanting low light are actually just capable of surviving long term in low light, they don't do better in it. Dracaena (snake plants) will grow wildly faster if you get them near some actual light. Epipremnum will continue to grow fine without much light, but the leaves will get three or four times the size if you get them in front of a window, etc.
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Feb 19, 2022 02:40
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I think I'm coming at this from a much different place than the other people posting. my focus is on design, and what spots work best to have the design and layout I want. for example, I moved my desk in front of the window, which meant my sofa was further from the window, which meant there was now a large gap in the wall. A taller plant where I have it helps to break up that space. So even though maybe putting it closer would allow it to grow more, it wouldn't work at all with the room (in fact it would look a bit bizarre). I will keep an eye on it, if it just completely dies or whatever then sure I'll make changes, but that's where I'm coming from.
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Feb 19, 2022 03:48
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actionjackson posted:I think I'm coming at this from a much different place than the other people posting. my focus is on design, and what spots work best to have the design and layout I want. for example, I moved my desk in front of the window, which meant my sofa was further from the window, which meant there was now a large gap in the wall. A taller plant where I have it helps to break up that space. So even though maybe putting it closer would allow it to grow more, it wouldn't work at all with the room (in fact it would look a bit bizarre). I will keep an eye on it, if it just completely dies or whatever then sure I'll make changes, but that's where I'm coming from. I mean, you can top or spot/bottomlight it and put it anywhere you please
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Feb 19, 2022 04:13
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Lakitu7 posted:Since I moved to MN I've never been able to find even regular boring lemon-scented geraniums. Richter's Nursery. I ordered a peppermint geranium, several thymes, and a microminiature rose, and they all arrived in California in immaculate shape. They have 20 different varieties of lavender. https://www.richters.com/Web_store/web_store.cgi?show=list&prodclass=Potted_Herbs They have rose *and* attar of rose *and* skeleton rose *and* Rober's Lemon Rose.
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Feb 19, 2022 04:28
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Ok Comboomer posted:I mean, you can top or spot/bottomlight it and put it anywhere you please I'd be open to the idea of a grow light if it wasn't too intense - I have a lot of light sensitivity issues, so I tend to use relatively dim and low color temperature lighting. I would imagine grow lights, since they are trying to simulate day light, are going to be 5000K at a minimum.
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Feb 19, 2022 04:32
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My grow lights are a disturbing purple, actually.
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Feb 19, 2022 04:42
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actionjackson posted:I'd be open to the idea of a grow light if it wasn't too intense - I have a lot of light sensitivity issues, so I tend to use relatively dim and low color temperature lighting. I would imagine grow lights, since they are trying to simulate day light, are going to be 5000K at a minimum. Try one of these, and if it’s still too much we can go quite a bit lower/yellower: GE Grow LED Light Bulb, For Seeds and Greens, Balanced Light Spectrum, Medium Base, BR30 Bulb Shape (Pack of 1) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NN6SVG6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_VFHFZN9YC4ZWQFYT79AK I also dislike bright light in the home. The way I use my spot grow lights is to complement/augment daylight rather than replace it. For me that means having them set on a timer: on at 5:30AM, off at 11:30. So by the time it’s noon, the brightest amount of natural light I get at home, the spotlights are already off for the rest of the day, and I never really notice the extra brightness nearly as much. A lot of plants in offices/indoor public spaces are illuminated on a reverse cycle, where they get hit with the bright stuff overnight while everybody’s at home. I know some goons with WFH setups that light their office plants that way too. If it’s not going to bother you/your pets/your family/your neighbors, there’s no reason you can’t have the light come on at 1 or 2 in the morning.
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Feb 19, 2022 05:46
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Richter's Nursery. I ordered a peppermint geranium, several thymes, and a microminiature rose, and they all arrived in California in immaculate shape. They have 20 different varieties of lavender. Dang, I'll have to check this out in the Spring. Thanks!
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Feb 19, 2022 06:03
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Lakitu7 posted:Even though I may be casting doubt on your assertion that nothing can survive past 6ft, I still 100% agree with this. Hmm? I'm saying lots of things can survive, but few are going to be happy. actionjackson posted:I think I'm coming at this from a much different place than the other people posting. my focus is on design, and what spots work best to have the design and layout I want. for example, I moved my desk in front of the window, which meant my sofa was further from the window, which meant there was now a large gap in the wall. A taller plant where I have it helps to break up that space. So even though maybe putting it closer would allow it to grow more, it wouldn't work at all with the room (in fact it would look a bit bizarre). I will keep an eye on it, if it just completely dies or whatever then sure I'll make changes, but that's where I'm coming from. I care about both, but a healthy thriving plant looks a lot better than a scraggly doody plant.
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Feb 19, 2022 13:34
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I bought a surplus street light recently (just the light‐emitting part) and it owns. It has a Meanwell driver putting out two hundred and forty watts, which alone would be worth half again as much as I paid for the whole kit. Spec’d at thirty thousand lumens. It has an incredibly beefy heat sink and fan so that it can survive living inside metal box in Phoenix for twenty years. I can barely feel it get warm. Needless to say, my plants are pleased.
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Feb 19, 2022 14:16
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Ok Comboomer posted:I also dislike bright light in the home. The way I use my spot grow lights is to complement/augment daylight rather than replace it. For me that means having them set on a timer: on at 5:30AM, off at 11:30. So by the time it’s noon, the brightest amount of natural light I get at home, the spotlights are already off for the rest of the day, and I never really notice the extra brightness nearly as much. I really like bright light, especially in the winter, but nearly all of my grow lights are above/next to windows so it's basically just boosting the natural light anyway. The great thing about the GE bulbs (besides them having a reasonable color temperature) is that they just use a regular old bulb base, so you can stick them in any fixture that pleases you. Speaking of GE bulbs, my mother wanted to put a bunch in but Amazon is currently limiting orders of BR30s to 3 per customer for whatever reason 
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Feb 19, 2022 14:21
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Wallet posted:
I moved it a bit closer, as I said I'll keep an eye on how it's doing and reevaluate. since it's winter, i will start with watering once a week. I was told to water when it's dry down to two inches deep, I think the idea is that at that point the lower part is still moist, and you don't want the soil to completely dry out, like you can with snake plants.
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Feb 19, 2022 15:59
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Feeling cocky, I ordered a calathea without knowing what they require. Lol! Anyhow I just ordered one of those Levoit humidifiers and also some self-help books for when this thing gets mad at me every 5 seconds. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MYGNGKK/
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Feb 19, 2022 18:51
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Dang It Bhabhi! posted:Feeling cocky, I ordered a calathea without knowing what they require. Lol! Anyhow I just ordered one of those Levoit humidifiers and also some self-help books for when this thing gets mad at me every 5 seconds. which kind? Some are way easier than others Edit: oh, it didn’t load the pic the first time. I love ornatas. I had one a while ago before I was much better at this hobby. I had and missed the chance to get a big one at Home Despot for cheap over the holidays but Mahoneys/etc will surely have them trilobite terror fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Feb 19, 2022 |
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Feb 19, 2022 18:52
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Ok Comboomer posted:which kind? Some are way easier than others Pinstripe/ornata
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Feb 19, 2022 18:54
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I've never tried a Pinstripe but my Calathea Leopardina has been perfectly happy at 28% humidity all winter. I just use a Blumat so it's never not mildly moist. The same goes for the Maidenhair Fern and a Triostar. Home Depot just blessed me with a Rattlesnake Calathea for $14 last weekend, so I'll see how that goes, but I'm hesitant to dive too hard into Calatheas when they have such a diva reputation. Mine are getting rain (now melted snow) water and I've never tried otherwise. Some folks say that's a big deal and others say it isn't. It probably depends on your tap water situation.
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Feb 19, 2022 19:12
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I think one of the biggest issues I see with calathea/marantaceae in genera; (and alocasia) is that growers all grow them in 100% shredded coco coir, which is... not what they natively grow in and I find holds too much moisture. The few I keep do much better in a 50% orchid bark/20% charcoal/30% peat mix. I imagine amendments that mimic the mineral content from where they naturally grow would help as well but they're native all over South America so good luck pinning that down. Never had an issue with tap water or humidity either, and it gets down into the 30% humidity range in my house in winter.
skylined! fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Feb 19, 2022 |
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Feb 19, 2022 20:03
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skylined! posted:I think one of the biggest issues I see with calathea/marantaceae in genera; (and alocasia) is that growers all grow them in 100% shredded coco coir, which is... not what they natively grow in and I find holds too much moisture. The few I keep do much better in a 50% orchid bark/20% charcoal/30% peat mix. I imagine amendments that mimic the mineral content from where they naturally grow would help as well but they're native all over South America so good luck pinning that down. Never had an issue with tap water or humidity either, and it gets down into the 30% humidity range in my house in winter. Yeah, just when you think you might lose it to dryness you lose it to rot from soggy substrate I just probably lost a lauterbachiana I bought over Christmas. There’s a nub of a living rhizome left. Ironically, I got one for my mom and it had the same problem, but she was able to save it with a repot.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:11
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I got a bunch of leca from my work and was thinking about doing the whole leca + nutrient water thing but... naaaw. For potting pwecious widdle princess plants I use some promix with coir, orchid bark, perlite and biochar. Should I let it acclimate before repotting it in fresh/better soil? Seems like I should.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:12
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Dang It Bhabhi! posted:I got a bunch of leca from my work and was thinking about doing the whole leca + nutrient water thing but... naaaw. For potting pwecious widdle princess plants I use some promix with coir, orchid bark, perlite and biochar. Should I let it acclimate before repotting it in fresh/better soil? Seems like I should. I thought hard about leca after buying this monstera albo that came in leca but... none of the growers I read blogs from use it, and it really doesn't make a lot of sense for the plants I keep. There are all sorts of nutrients that aren't provided using hydro mixes, not to mention the beneficial fungal relationships that more and more science is coming out on. My goal is to mimic their natural conditions as much as possible, and I can at least do that with the growing medium.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:18
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skylined! posted:I thought hard about leca after buying this monstera albo that came in leca but... none of the growers I read blogs from use it, and it really doesn't make a lot of sense for the plants I keep. There are all sorts of nutrients that aren't provided using hydro mixes, not to mention the beneficial fungal relationships that more and more science is coming out on. My goal is to mimic their natural conditions as much as possible, and I can at least do that with the growing medium. I wouldn’t bother with leca unless you’re actually doing a hydroponic solution for growing something. It works really well for high turnover spots with lettuce or other greens, but really isn’t necessary for most things. It does move water well and won’t stay overly wet, but if you’re watering by hand anyway you’re not gaining anything here. It’s lighter than most other stone solutions for open ebb and flow systems and I’d use it there without hesitation. It’s not going to be as forgiving with watering schedule as the other options either.
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Feb 19, 2022 21:19
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Dang It Bhabhi! posted:Should I let it acclimate before repotting it in fresh/better soil? Seems like I should. Why settle a plant in before unsettling it? Just get it done with IMO.
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Feb 19, 2022 22:16
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My brother keeps his orchids in leca and they flower so huge that they have to support the spikes with string suspended from the ceiling. He’s got some sort of algae growing in the bottom with the water, I have no idea what’s going on but it’s amazing.
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Feb 20, 2022 02:03
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Hutla posted:My brother keeps his orchids in leca and they flower so huge that they have to support the spikes with string suspended from the ceiling. He’s got some sort of algae growing in the bottom with the water, I have no idea what’s going on but it’s amazing. I guess epiphytes would make sense as responding positively to leca, given their natural growing environments. Re: light chat - I found a good/simple video that goes into good detail about light quality and not just foot candles for anyone interested. And another one. skylined! fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Feb 20, 2022 |
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Feb 20, 2022 14:14
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I was doing my Sunday watering and discovered my little Sarcocaulon herrei is flowering. I didn't even notice it had buds on it because I'm a bad plant daddy and I wasn't paying no attention. I'd never seen their flowers before. I've had it for about a year and it's always had an issue with constantly cycling its leaves—half of them are always brown and it's always pushing out new ones. I've tried more/less water, more/less light, but it just seems to be a thing it wants to do. Guess it can't be too miserable. skylined! posted:Re: light chat - I found a good/simple video that goes into good detail about light quality and not just foot candles for anyone interested. And another one. One thing I found really annoying when I was originally researching this stuff some years ago was that once you understand what PPFD is you can compare lights to each other, but it's incredibly difficult to find good numbers for what the target might actually be. Based on a ton of digging back then it seems that sun at noon (depending on where you are and season) is in the 800-1800 range, and shade is going to be more like 400-900. There's ramp that occurs with the actual sun so it's actually only going to peak for a few hours a day whereas grow lights are usually only on or off, so I wouldn't shoot for 1800 PPFD worth of grow lights for 14 hours a day, but at least it provides some kind of baseline for comparison.
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Feb 20, 2022 15:18
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Wallet posted:One thing I found really annoying when I was originally researching this stuff some years ago was that once you understand what PPFD is you can compare lights to each other, but it's incredibly difficult to find good numbers for what the target might actually be. Based on a ton of digging back then it seems that sun at noon (depending on where you are and season) is in the 800-1800 range, and shade is going to be more like 400-900. Ya, if anything it speaks to plant resilience and adaptability that we can even grow them indoors. We can mimic soil/substrate pretty well but lighting conditions are incredibly difficult and expensive to come anywhere near actual outdoor native conditions, indoors.
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Feb 20, 2022 17:29
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I've been wintering a few of my banana trees inside. It's almost OK for them to go out and apparently this dude realized it was spring. Dropped 4 leaves over the last 4 months and I was afraid of losing it but then woke up to this 4 days ago:  Helped it just a bit  Annndddd last night it's almost open. 
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Feb 24, 2022 17:04
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update on my bamboo palm - you were right, it's not thriving, or even just surviving it's dying that's what I would say if your predictions were correct. it's actually doing just fine, and is even growing some new leaves at the bottom. you can see them a bit in the pic. also thanks to whoever recommended peach and pebble, I got a planter from them today and it works very well with my decor!
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Feb 24, 2022 21:56
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actionjackson posted:update on my bamboo palm - you were right, it's not thriving, or even just surviving it's dying  no one thought it was going to die from not getting enough light. Happy to hear it's doing alright, though, and it looks good.
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Feb 24, 2022 22:18
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thanks and uh, I mean I definitely read this differentlyskylined! posted:5 feet from the window is 122 foot candles of light. That's just enough light to keep the plant alive for a while until it inevitably rots or dries out in a few months. Wallet posted:
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Feb 24, 2022 22:27
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actionjackson posted:thanks and uh, I mean I definitely read this differently Scraggly doody is what it will likely grow towards over a number of years living in insufficient light as it becomes more and more etiolated. skylined!'s theory is that it will get killed by too much or not enough water, it seems. One of those is made more likely by insufficient light, but neither would occur (or at least be noticable) that quickly.
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Feb 24, 2022 22:41
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actionjackson posted:update on my bamboo palm - you were right, it's not thriving, or even just surviving it's dying Your adolescent plant is using what energy stores it has to grow baby leaves because it's trying to survive in minimal light. Check back in a few months.
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Feb 24, 2022 23:46
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 i'm doing once a week watering right now, when it's dry at two inches deepI would consider a grow light if it has issues in the future though, do those point at the entire plant or just a certain part? it would help if the lights from them wasn't on the very cool end of the spectrum, which is incredibly harsh on my eyes actionjackson fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Feb 25, 2022 |
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Feb 25, 2022 00:35
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Grow lights that are white with CCT of 3000 K or 3500 K are very common now. They may still be uncomfortably bright.
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Feb 25, 2022 01:09
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Platystemon posted:Grow lights that are white with CCT of 3000 K or 3500 K are very common now. yeah I really don't use anything over 3000K, except in a closet. I prefer 2700K. I have very large pupils for whatever reason which makes the issue worse with a plant of this size, would you basically need a grow light hanging from the ceiling above it, pointing down?
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Feb 25, 2022 01:12
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