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Rodiel posted:its not as big a deal as it was 50 years ago, it was a technical thing then. But it should still be a big political thing no matter whos involved. i dont want nukes on the border of my country and i dont blame russia for felling the same! ... And that has zero to do with Ukraine.
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Feb 19, 2022 19:52
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Rodiel posted:I dont want to die in a nuclear war. maybe im built different? lmao if you don't yearn for the warm embrace of thermonuclear fire in tyool 2022
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Feb 19, 2022 19:52
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:A missile defense site in Poland, while dumb and provocative IMO, is not the same thing as batteries of IRBMs we do have nuclear weapons in turkey, but they aren't intended to be delivered by missile. but that is largely because land-based nuclear weapons are considered to be useless in the modern nuclear triad, existing entirely to force your opponent to divert their weapons at your missiles in the event of a first strike.
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Feb 19, 2022 19:55
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Rodiel posted:That makes it ok? Rodiel posted:I dont want to die in a nuclear war. maybe im built different? Please point to where anyone has said they do. Russia also has SSBNs that I'm sure get regularly close to the US coastline. The point of all of this is that you keep throwing out poorly-defended arguments to support Russia's actions, and when pointed out to be false, contradictory, exaggerated, etc., you either double down, move the goalposts, or try to change to another related topic. You said the US had missiles in Germany and Turkey. This is false. You then criticize the people who told you it was false. Now I'm pointing out another reason why the US doesn't need to put offensive missiles in these countries, and now you say that I'm asking for nuclear war. This is also false. You said Russia isn't going to invade. This is speculation. You're either a troll, as I suspect and am going to stop responding to, or you need to step away from the computer and take a walk, breath some fresh air, etc.
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Feb 19, 2022 19:55
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:A missile defense site in Poland, while dumb and provocative IMO, is not the same thing as batteries of IRBMs No, certainly not. But I think it's good to understand how the first thing (as well as pulling out of all of those treaties) helped lead to the second.
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Feb 19, 2022 19:55
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Concerned Citizen posted:we do have nuclear weapons in turkey, but they aren't intended to be delivered by missile. but that is largely because land-based nuclear weapons are considered to be useless in the modern nuclear triad, existing entirely to force your opponent to divert their weapons at your missiles in the event of a first strike. I know all of this, I linked to the fact the only nukes in Turkey are B61 gravity bombs somewhere on the last page or two. Notice also my post was discussing Poland, not Turkey.
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Feb 19, 2022 19:56
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Majorian posted:No, certainly not. But I think it's good to understand how the first thing (as well as pulling out of all of those treaties) helped lead to the second. To an extent I agree, but there's an awful big difference between what the US did, which is to withdraw or allow treaties to expire according to the terms and giving Russia appropriate notice, and what Russia has done which is to just stop complying with treaties it no longer likes and wait to be called out on it.
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Feb 19, 2022 19:57
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Concerned Citizen posted:we do have nuclear weapons in turkey, but they aren't intended to be delivered by missile. but that is largely because land-based nuclear weapons are considered to be useless in the modern nuclear triad, existing entirely to force your opponent to divert their weapons at your missiles in the event of a first strike. Also, the planes that could drop them aren't actually in Turkey; you would need to fly aircraft to Turkey, load the bombs, and then fly to wherever they were to be dropped. So for all intents and purposes they're useless.
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Feb 19, 2022 19:58
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SourKraut posted:Please point to where anyone has said they do. Russia also has SSBNs that I'm sure get regularly close to the US coastline. How would the US government react if Russia tried to make an alliance with Mexico? You and people like you act like you cant understand Russias actions. I'm calling bullshit, I think you understand them very well.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:01
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Ukraine's already requested 25 American Metal Gears, whereas Russia only has 10 Shogokhods. How is this comparable? How do you think Russia is supposed to react to that?
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Feb 19, 2022 20:01
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Paladinus posted:Ukraine's already requested 25 American Metal Gears, whereas Russia only has 10 Shogokhods. How is this comparable? How do you think Russia is supposed to react to that? can i empty quote here?
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Feb 19, 2022 20:03
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Rodiel posted:How would the US government react if Russia tried to make an alliance with Mexico? You and people like you act like you cant understand Russias actions. I'm calling bullshit, I think you understand them very well. Personally, I would say that Mexico should go for it, because Mexico has been getting abused and poo poo on by the US for far too long. How would the US Government react? It depends - my guess it would be further excuse to try and fortify the border with Mexico, which is something quite a few in government and society would actively cheer for. Edit: And again, you segue in order to avoid addressing the actual topics I brought up.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:04
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Rodiel posted:How would the US government react if Russia tried to make an alliance with Mexico? You and people like you act like you cant understand Russias actions. I'm calling bullshit, I think you understand them very well. If Mexico wanted to get a foreign ally after US annexed a bunch of land from them, any person with a shred of decency would sympathize with Mexico, not the immoral wielders of Monroe Doctrine.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:05
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SourKraut posted:Personally, I would say that Mexico should go for it, because Mexico has been getting abused and poo poo on by the US for far too long. what was the topic?
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Feb 19, 2022 20:06
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It's as if this hypothetical Mexico-Russia alliance needs more context to be properly discussed. Everyone goes for Cuba as the example which I think is weird because the Zimmerman telegram is far more relevant: nothing bad happens to mexico, very bad things happen to the country trying to co-opt Mexico
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Feb 19, 2022 20:06
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OddObserver posted:If Mexico wanted to get a foreign ally after US annexed a bunch of land from them, any person with a shred of decency would sympathize with Mexico, not the immoral wielders of Monroe Doctrine. sure bud
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Feb 19, 2022 20:07
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sorry i wasnt trying to produce a hypothetical, just citing history
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Feb 19, 2022 20:08
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Yeah, I can't imagine a Mexican government getting into bed with the Russians like that. Despite how rocky US-Mexican relations have been historically, siding with Russia would be all downside for them.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:08
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Yeah, I can't imagine a Mexican government getting into bed with the Russians like that. Despite how rocky US-Mexican relations have been historically, siding with Russia would be all downside for them. they went with the germans
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Feb 19, 2022 20:09
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It's sad that all those young people are gonna be fighting a war instead of playing Elden Ring at home, I'd be pissed if I was a soldier, this is horrible timing.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:10
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Rodiel posted:they went with the germans No they didn't. They really really didn't.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:10
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smoobles posted:It's sad that all those young people are gonna be fighting a war instead of playing Elden Ring at home, I'd be pissed if I was a soldier, this is horrible timing. amen
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Feb 19, 2022 20:11
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Rodiel posted:How would the US government react if Russia tried to make an alliance with Mexico? You and people like you act like you cant understand Russias actions. I'm calling bullshit, I think you understand them very well. This literally happened in World War I. Imperial Germany proposed a military alliance with Mexico in the event that the United States entered the war on the allied side, and even suggested that Mexico could get Texas back after they won the war. Mexico's government responded "what no that is the worst idea we've ever heard." When news of the proposal was leaked by Britain, most people thought it was clearly propaganda, until the German foreign minister straight-up admitted that it was true. This isn't a particularly useful historical parallel since the context for these proposals, who wanted what, and the responses to them were entirely different, but it is very funny.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:11
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KillHour posted:The thread devolving into a nasty ideological civil war about whether America as a whole and Joe Biden specifically is stupid or evil or neither or both while globally important poo poo that has nothing to do with the western hemisphere is happening is incredibly appropriate. It's like a stupidity fractal. If US CE talks about America's involvement in this than the mods tell people to take it there until they clog up the thread and are told to take it to US CE.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:12
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:No they didn't. They really really didn't. you're right, they just wanted to break from the us, but they couldn't, already they were hosed
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Feb 19, 2022 20:13
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It's as if military alliances don't just come out of a vaccuum and the contexts and rationales of the the nations in question need examination to see what's going on.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:13
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oh lol you brought it up! And got the Mexican response completely wrong! Which considering how much knowledge you've demonstrated of both history and geopolitics in this thread is a completely unanticipated result. just utterly shocking. truly.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:13
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Acebuckeye13 posted:This literally happened in World War I. Imperial Germany proposed a military alliance with Mexico in the event that the United States entered the war on the allied side, and even suggested that Mexico could get Texas back after they won the war. Mexico's government responded "what no that is the worst idea we've ever heard." When news of the proposal was leaked by Britain, most people thought it was clearly propaganda, until the German foreign minister straight-up admitted that it was true. i reffed it lol
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Feb 19, 2022 20:13
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Acebuckeye13 posted:This literally happened in World War I. Imperial Germany proposed a military alliance with Mexico in the event that the United States entered the war on the allied side, and even suggested that Mexico could get Texas back after they won the war. Mexico's government responded "what no that is the worst idea we've ever heard." When news of the proposal was leaked by Britain, most people thought it was clearly propaganda, until the German foreign minister straight-up admitted that it was true. its also very timely
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Feb 19, 2022 20:14
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Rodiel posted:its also very timely mexico rejecting a nonsensical offensive military alliance with germany is not in fact a timely comparison to ukraine seeking a defensive alliance against a hostile neighbor.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:17
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Acebuckeye13 posted:mexico rejecting a nonsensical offensive military alliance with germany is not in fact a timely comparison to ukraine seeking a defensive alliance against a hostile neighbor. Ukraine is hosed no matter what. i think its a good metaphor
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Feb 19, 2022 20:20
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Rodiel posted:Ukraine is hosed no matter what. i think its a good metaphor Why are they hosed again? Remind me
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Feb 19, 2022 20:22
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This place is dead
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Feb 19, 2022 20:22
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Why are they hosed again? Remind me there whole economy is based on the gas pipelines dude
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Feb 19, 2022 20:23
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its honesty inzsane how ignorant people who post in this thread are
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Feb 19, 2022 20:23
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Thank you for choosing this thread to have your meltdown in.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:24
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Thank you for choosing this thread to have your meltdown in. im as calm as a still Ukranian lake
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Feb 19, 2022 20:25
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Rodiel posted:there whole economy is based on the gas pipelines dude Rodiel posted:its honesty inzsane how ignorant people who post in this thread are You're as close to getting it as possible without actually getting it. Your ability to asymptotically approach an obvious answer and yet still evade it is breathtaking.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:27
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:You're as close to getting it as possible without actually getting it. Your ability to asymptotically approach an obvious answer and yet still evade it is breathtaking. do you think russia needs the pipes in ukraine? i dont think they do anymore but i could be wrong
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Feb 19, 2022 20:30
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i do think nord 2 is what this is all about
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Feb 19, 2022 20:31
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