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Koos Group posted:Are there Russian troops in there already? Not officially but that convoy looks convincing enough.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:12
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Sinteres posted:I haven't toxxed, but Russian troops in the already existing borders of the separatist republics counting as a new invasion seems extremely petty to me, and not what people meant when they said invasion. Of course if there's a push to expand the separatist republics into the rest of their provinces, that's different. Invading Ukraine does not count as invading Ukraine? Or do you also recognize their new status as independent states?
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Feb 21, 2022 22:12
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Koos Group posted:Are there Russian troops in there already? Technically yes officially no
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Feb 21, 2022 22:12
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GABA ghoul posted:Lmao, it's almost 4am on February 22nd. Zhirik knew, he knew The face of true leadership 
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Feb 21, 2022 22:12
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Koos Group posted:Are there Russian troops in there already? Yeah Russian troops have been documented in Donbass multiple times since 2014.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:12
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Gros Tarla posted:Invading Ukraine does not count as invading Ukraine? Or do you also recognize their new status as independent states? They were de facto separated in 2014 so I don't think putting troops there counts as a distinct new invasion even if it's an escalation. Pushing beyond the contact line would be a new invasion.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:13
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Sinteres posted:They were de facto separated in 2014 so I don't think putting troops there counts as a distinct new invasion even if it's an escalation. Pushing beyond the contact line would be a new invasion. Don't you have work to do, Mr. President?
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Feb 21, 2022 22:14
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Sinteres posted:They were de facto separated in 2014 so I don't think putting troops there counts as a distinct new invasion even if it's an escalation. Pushing beyond the contact line would be a new invasion. Yeah the question is will they stick to the current lines or push to take the entire Donbass region.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:15
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:It was daylight madness to let conscripts play with Buk launchers near a civil aviation flyway. It was madness to escalate the situation in Ukraine by massing an army on the borders and madness to jeopardize Nord Stream 2 and Russian standing in Europe and elsewhere in doing so, and madness to mass an invasion force in the middle of a global Pandemic if this is all a bluff, or even if it isn't. Presumptions of sanity are therefore not given. Why should they be? When I pinched this from John le Carré I didn't expect to be proven right by Putin on live television.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:15
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah the question is will they stick to the current lines or push to take the entire Donbass region. Yeah I think that's an open question too, I was just saying for the purpose of the toxxes I don't think forces arriving behind the contact line should count as an invasion because of the pre-existing status. OddObserver posted:Don't you have work to do, Mr. President? This doesn't seem like the kind of post that elevates the discourse.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:16
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https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1495867914909626381?s=20&t=tWZgsCo-QfkLxpmYJvHxrA
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Feb 21, 2022 22:16
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I did correctly remember that the toxx had its own invasion definition.nurmie posted:i propose the following conditions for my counter- HonorableTB posted:I think these are reasonable and accept
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Feb 21, 2022 22:17
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to HonorableTB:
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Sinteres posted:They were de facto separated in 2014 so I don't think putting troops there counts as a distinct new invasion even if it's an escalation. Pushing beyond the contact line would be a new invasion. Russian troops in Ukraine against the will of Ukraine is an invasion of Ukraine, no matter how much dancing you do.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:17
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah the question is will they stick to the current lines or push to take the entire Donbass region. The Security Council recommended Putin recognize the pre-2014 borders and afaik that's the basis of the decree signed today, inc. his speech talking about the entire Donbass, not just the rights of the breakaway areas. So I guess even at this stage Conspiratiorist posted:Fact is one of the world's largest militaries has concentrated >60% of its fighting power along the border of a country it invaded less than 10 years ago and somehow we still have no loving idea what it's going to do or how they're going to do it.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:18
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Jarmak posted:Russian troops in Ukraine against the will of Ukraine is an invasion of Ukraine, no matter how much dancing you do. I didn't say it wasn't, I said it's not a distinct new invasion separate from 2014. Please read the posts you're responding to.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:18
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The other one was this one but iirc mods didn't like this one.KillHour posted:I have no idea if Russia is going to invade but if they do I'm going to buy everyone who said they definitely won't a red title and if they don't I'm going to do the same to everyone who said they definitely will even though I honestly can't think of nearly as many of the latter
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Feb 21, 2022 22:19
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I suspect this will become an entirely meaningless argument within the next 24 hours.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:19
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GABA ghoul posted:Lmao, it's almost 4am on February 22nd. Zhirik knew, he knew Of all the crazy things, this might be the hardest to believe. 
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Feb 21, 2022 22:19
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Xarn posted:There is a worrying lack of posters telling us that Putin is rational in wanting buffer states and it is the evil I stand by my position, Russia isn't invading and the western media is full of hysterical lairs. Putin isn't a good guy, but hes not stupid, still waiting for the invasion. cinci zoo sniper posted:NATO could officialy admit that Lenin was a Nazi. This is complete insanity.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:19
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Conspiratiorist posted:I suspect this will become an entirely meaningless argument within the next 24 hours. Probably yeah, I don't think the borders of the "new republics" will remain static for long either.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:20
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Rodiel posted:I stand by my position, Russia isn't invading and the western media is full of hysterical lairs. Putin isn't a good guy, but hes not stupid, still waiting for the invasion. Do you know what an invasion looks like?
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Feb 21, 2022 22:20
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https://twitter.com/maryilyushina/status/1495870954647560197 Invasions look like this
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Feb 21, 2022 22:21
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Sir Bobert Fishbone posted:https://twitter.com/maryilyushina/status/1495870954647560197 https://twitter.com/Caucasuswar/status/1495869901172523022
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Feb 21, 2022 22:21
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CommieGIR posted:Do you know what an invasion looks like? Yeah, my country does them all the time.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:22
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Sinteres posted:
Sorry, I suppose it's a bit unfair to express my frustration at Joe Biden's response as your expense. You're being pedantic about forum silliness, not screwing up foreign policy
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Feb 21, 2022 22:23
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Rodiel posted:Yeah, my country does them all the time. Yeah, like faking a 'crisis' to move armed soldiers into an area to 'keep the peace'. Often under false pretenses. So what's this and the speech Putin gave today?
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Feb 21, 2022 22:24
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Sinteres posted:I didn't say it wasn't, I said it's not a distinct new invasion separate from 2014. Please read the posts you're responding to. Having troops unofficially to formally invading seems like a sufficient distinction but yeah it probably wont matter in less than 24 hours
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Feb 21, 2022 22:24
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OddObserver posted:Sorry, I suppose it's a bit unfair to express my frustration at Joe Biden's response as your expense. You're being pedantic about forum silliness, not screwing up foreign policy Oh I thought you were calling me Putin and I was pretty confused why that post was generating that response.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:24
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GABA ghoul posted:Lmao, it's almost 4am on February 22nd. Zhirik knew, he knew This is almost more worrying than grandpa's recent speech. Zhiri is deranged. The fact that there is a clown in the Duma is in itself not particularly worrying, there are plenty of them in the parliaments of other states. But if Zhiri knew about the exact timetable so far back, it means that he's actually involved in decisionmaking. And that's a scary thought indeed.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:24
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https://twitter.com/PussyRobbery/status/1495871738139267081?s=20&t=mqOQRHOV49uq7hGWh7gYoA
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Feb 21, 2022 22:25
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If the invasian isn't happening in the Invasia region, then it's just a sparkling police action.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:25
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They had to give him COVID to shut him up, it all tracks perfectly.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:25
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Sinteres posted:I didn't say it wasn't, I said it's not a distinct new invasion separate from 2014. Please read the posts you're responding to. Have these units been in Ukraine since 2014? If not then it's a new invasion. I neither know nor care what new semantic bullshit you're trying to invent to argue over whether it's "distinct".
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Feb 21, 2022 22:27
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Jarmak posted:Have these units been in Ukraine since 2014? If not then it's a new invasion. I neither know nor care what new semantic bullshit you're trying to invent to argue over whether it's "distinct". If you neither know nor care about semantic distinctions, you're in the wrong forum imo.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:28
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"Is it REALLY an invasion if Russia leaves a rump state behind?" has been a common thread of bet-hedging on Ukraine since 2014, hasn't it?
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Feb 21, 2022 22:28
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Despera posted:Having troops unofficially to formally invading seems like a sufficient distinction We need to come up with a new smaller version of the Friedman unit!
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Feb 21, 2022 22:28
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FishBulbia posted:https://twitter.com/PussyRobbery/status/1495871738139267081?s=20&t=mqOQRHOV49uq7hGWh7gYoA Please provide a translation into English or at least a synopsis. Without that, this is meaningless for the vast majority of posters.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:28
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I think the spirit of the toxx was troops crossing the current border/line-of-contact.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:29
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Killer robot posted:"Is it REALLY an invasion if Russia leaves a rump state behind?" has been a common thread of bet-hedging on Ukraine since 2014, hasn't it? It's an invasion if the contact line moves deeper into Ukraine, it's not an invasion if it doesn't. That's not really very complicated, or disingenuous.
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Feb 21, 2022 22:29
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Jarmak posted:Have these units been in Ukraine since 2014? If not then it's a new invasion. I neither know nor care what new semantic bullshit you're trying to invent to argue over whether it's "distinct". Russian troops have been in these regions of Ukraine since 2014. Why does it matter whether they were "these units"?
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Feb 21, 2022 22:29
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