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Paladinus posted:I suspect it's part of disinfo campaign to incite panic. I wouldn't be surprised tbh. It's pretty clear they've already suffered pretty unsustainable losses.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:23
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punk rebel ecks posted:Unless Russia invades a major NATO country like Poland, I can't imagine any world power intervening.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:24
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Betty Wight posted:I think it’s now dawning on this thread that Putin has to be stopped. A poster above asked you to contact your representatives regarding refugees. I suggest one better: Ukraine needs immediate and substantial military aid. US and NATO air cover would provide substantial discouragement for the Russians to push any further. If Putin wants to start taking sovereign nations he needs to face a severe penalty. This would lead to direct military conflict between NATO and Russia. There’s only one outcome in that situation. Western powers never cared about the people of Georgia and they don’t care about the people of Ukraine. We’ve used these countries to goad Russia and Putin finally took the bait. Charlz Guybon posted:If Russia attacked Estonia the other Baltic states and Poland would defend it and that would be enough to suck in Germans and the rest. Estonia is a member of NATO. There’s no way Russia will risk direct conflict with any NATO member state. That’s about the only thing we can rely on. It would be the end, I mean, a NATO-Russian conflict would literally be the end. Putin made that explicitly clear a few days ago, that a NATO-Russian conflict will end in one way. Melancholia fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 07:24
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Celexi posted:Russian peacekeeping, by murdering people?
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Feb 24, 2022 07:25
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Wafflepoet posted:This would lead to direct military conflict between NATO and Russia. There’s only one outcome in that situation. Western powers never cared about the people of Georgia and they don’t care about the people of Ukraine. We’ve used these countries to goad Russia and Putin finally took the bait. gently caress right off you Incredible shitstain (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 24, 2022 07:25
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Tomberforce posted:https://twitter.com/SAQI8732/status/1496730226679709698 Slow fingertip formation not only sucks rear end as a pilot but is 100% not a wartime formation.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:26
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Agricola Frigidus posted:Speaking of Nato - how likely is it that Finland and Sweden are joining up now?
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Feb 24, 2022 07:27
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FishBulbia posted:I wouldn't be surprised tbh. It's pretty clear they've already suffered pretty unsustainable losses. what
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Feb 24, 2022 07:27
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Regarding Ukrainian air defense being “neutralized” : if your SAMs emit and don’t move immediately, they will be destroyed. If Ukraine has not been moving their SAMs regularly, they were some of the first things hit by Russian missiles. It is totally possible that Russia knocked out the bulk of Ukrainian air defense.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:27
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So personal firearm ownership in Ukraine is roughly 1 weapon per 10 people? Is that high? My perspective is hosed because when my niece was born she had a birth certificate and three ARs. I don't know what a sane country looks like.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:28
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Wafflepoet posted:This would lead to direct military conflict between NATO and Russia. There’s only one outcome in that situation. Western powers never cared about the people of Georgia and they don’t care about the people of Ukraine. We’ve used these countries to goad Russia and Putin finally took the bait.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:28
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Inner Light posted:That would be seen as intervention. Do you want USA intervening in Ukraine? The West is powerless. A military response is unthinkable. Certainly the West can utterly deny access to the West's financial mechanisms but then what? If that has no effect, it will drive Russia to penury and what happens then? What will be their response to an economic blockade? Any sanction has to consider "Then what?" if it doesn't work. The West is powerless and it's humiliating.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:29
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Tomberforce posted:https://twitter.com/SAQI8732/status/1496730226679709698 This has to be total bullshit. Like I'm no military expert but why would Russia fly all their latest and great poo poo like SU75s? And TU160s at such a low altitude and so slow that they could literally be hit by Stinger missiles? This is probably video taken from some air show in Russia and some shithead put a fake air raid siren over it.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:29
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dominoeffect posted:Thanks! Assuming the reports of 5 downed planes, what equipment do you think was most likely used? I'm not knowledgeable at all on AA, so I'm just curious how effective the stuff they have is. The Ukrainian AA will suffer heavily from not being upgraded and having no replenishment source, since all of its existing systems are developed and produced in Russia. I do not think they could have downed 5 planes with these systems. Perhaps some helicopters, but the Jets are sure to be protected by electronic warfare systems that have the unique advantage of knowing exactly how the systems they are trying to defeat operate. They apparently engaged some cruise missiles with limited success earlier, but that's probably about all they'll really be able to do unless Ukraine has been making some serious and sneaky modifications to their legacy systems.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:29
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Paladinus posted:To think I hoped Putin had some semblance of sanity left not to start a loving war. Jesus Christ. I didn't understand your optimism, but I was holding out hope that somehow you were right.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:30
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Charliegrs posted:This has to be total bullshit. Like I'm no military expert but why would Russia fly all their latest and great poo poo like SU75s? And TU160s at such a low altitude and so slow that they could literally be hit by Stinger missiles? This is probably video taken from some air show in Russia and some shithead put a fake air raid siren over it. Yeah I was going to say similar, great way to lose their planes if real.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:30
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Triggerhappypilot posted:The Ukrainian AA will suffer heavily from not being upgraded and having no replenishment source, since all of its existing systems are developed and produced in Russia. I do not think they could have downed 5 planes with these systems. Perhaps some helicopters, but the Jets are sure to be protected by electronic warfare systems that have the unique advantage of knowing exactly how the systems they are trying to defeat operate. They apparently engaged some cruise missiles with limited success earlier, but that's probably about all they'll really be able to do unless Ukraine has been making some serious and sneaky modifications to their legacy systems. Ukraine actually did a fair bit of production of these systems, at least in the Soviet times.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:31
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Celexi posted:https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1496731004249247748 The peace of the dead.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:32
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Wafflepoet posted:This would lead to direct military conflict between NATO and Russia. There’s only one outcome in that situation. Western powers never cared about the people of Georgia and they don’t care about the people of Ukraine. We’ve used these countries to goad Russia and Putin finally took the bait. The people of these countries were warming to the idea of joining NATO for security. Turns out they were correct. Countries aren't "nations" but are compromised of citizens and what their wants and needs are. Charlz Guybon posted:If Russia attacked Estonia the other Baltic states and Poland would defend it and that would be enough to suck in Germans and the rest. I guess that's possible, it really hinges whether Germany will make the move.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:33
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Ukr forces have taken massive losses, I wouldn't be suprised if the MoD propaganda statement at least somewhat reflect reality and most of Ukrainian AA is disabled Incredibly disturbing images emerging. Just unreal. https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1496733828014125056 This is deep inside western ukraine sticksy posted:Pretty clear based upon what evidence exactly? With a functional AA grid every military airport inside the country wouldn't be getting hit. That video above is from deep inside western Ukraine hundreds of miles from Russia and Belarus. I realize its a cruise missile and not an airstrike but it points to the state of air defense. Unsustainable losses is based on the Ukr MoD which says hundreds of service people have been killed. FishBulbia fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 07:33
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FishBulbia posted:I wouldn't be surprised tbh. It's pretty clear they've already suffered pretty unsustainable losses. Pretty clear based upon what evidence exactly?
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Feb 24, 2022 07:34
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steinrokkan posted:gently caress right off you Incredible shitstain Nessus posted:Yes, poor Putin, tricked by the perfidious West into recording his invasion announcement in advance. No doubt he was ordered not to do it on Twosday by the CIA gently caress Putin. gently caress the current Russian government and everything it represents. Don’t think for a moment I care for anyone other than the Ukrainian people in this situation. Stating the basic facts of the geopolitical situation isn’t supporting the actions of the Russian state. They’re just facts. NATO has been dangling the possibility of accession to Ukraine, Georgia and other states since 2008. Russia has made it clear since then that it would not allow this to happen. I don’t know how the gently caress I’m some kind of Russian apologist for providing the most basic outline of the geopolitical situation in the region since 2008. Again, gently caress Putin, but do deny the reality that NATO has some responsibility for this situation is simply delusional. This is so much worse for Ukraine. It was impossible for them to join NATO once Russia hosed them in 2014, but NATO continued to be openly involved nonetheless. No one except Russia is responsible for invading Ukraine. Triggerhappypilot posted:The Ukrainian AA will suffer heavily from not being upgraded and having no replenishment source, since all of its existing systems are developed and produced in Russia. I do not think they could have downed 5 planes with these systems. Perhaps some helicopters, but the Jets are sure to be protected by electronic warfare systems that have the unique advantage of knowing exactly how the systems they are trying to defeat operate. They apparently engaged some cruise missiles with limited success earlier, but that's probably about all they'll really be able to do unless Ukraine has been making some serious and sneaky modifications to their legacy systems. It’s a damned shame the Israelis vetoed the sale of the Iron Dome system to Ukraine. https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-torpedoed-sale-of-iron-dome-to-ukraine-fearing-russian-reaction-report/ Melancholia fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 07:39
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https://twitter.com/Caucasuswar/status/1496735261740437505 :nsfw: to be safe. fried bmp Imagine having to be on the roads right now.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:39
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Tomberforce posted:https://twitter.com/SAQI8732/status/1496730226679709698 So real quick. This Twitter account is absolute bullshit. The .com in the bio is not even registered and the member date on the account itself is last month. For whatever reason that I still can't really explain a lot of this disinformation botnett poo poo is easy to pluck out because they use very clearly random strings of the numbers and letters or a first name Plus a giant string of random integers like you might be familiar with during the Trump era. HOWEVER I recognize that this could be a misdirection to lend credit to more legitimate looking and less obviously bogus secondary wave attacks. (Ie well obviously John 99982738 is a bot, says hipsterChickOSU, while they are both coordinated by the same organization) cr0y fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 07:39
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Wafflepoet posted:This would lead to direct military conflict between NATO and Russia. There’s only one outcome in that situation. Western powers never cared about the people of Georgia and they don’t care about the people of Ukraine. We’ve used these countries to goad Russia and Putin finally took the bait. Congrats on Tulsi Gabbard level posting. It's incredible how hard some people will dig to blame the US for Putin's insanity.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:42
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Wafflepoet posted:gently caress Putin. gently caress the current Russian government and everything it represents. Don’t think for a moment I care for anyone other than the Ukrainian people in this situation. Stating the basic facts of the geopolitical situation isn’t supporting the actions of the Russian state. They’re just facts. You blame NATO when it's defensive in nature against possible Russian invasion into west. This war shows why it's a good idea to join NATO. But I don't expect apologists to acknowledge this.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:43
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i'm looking at livecams on youtube- not to catch any (unlikely) city action, but to see what trolls and bots and randos etc are chatting about looks like the fringes are going with, 'fake war', also lots of citing Matthew 24:6 but that probably has happened during every european war for the last thousand years e: i'm looking at this cam rn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy00WVHrkls didn't save the others, just search 'ukraine live' or 'lviv' or 'kyiv' or whatever on youtube, i'm jumping around easier to read chat in the ones with less than 3,000 viewers Peanut Butler fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 07:44
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Wafflepoet posted:gently caress Putin. gently caress the current Russian government and everything it represents. Don’t think for a moment I care for anyone other than the Ukrainian people in this situation. Stating the basic facts of the geopolitical situation isn’t supporting the actions of the Russian state. They’re just facts. If the citizens of Georgia and Ukraine want to elect leaders who push for NATO membership that's not the fault of NATO. It's not like almost every other post-Soviet state hasn't joined the organization.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:44
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Peanut Butler posted:i'm looking at livecams on youtube- not to catch any (unlikely) city action, but to see what trolls and bots and randos etc are chatting about wanna share some of those links?
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Feb 24, 2022 07:44
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the popes toes posted:Any sanction has to consider "Then what?" if it doesn't work. The West is powerless and it's humiliating. (1) Our first step must be to apprehend, and recognize for what it is, the nature of the movement with which we are dealing. We must study it with same courage, detachment, objectivity, and same determination not to be emotionally provoked or unseated by it, with which doctor studies unruly and unreasonable individual. (2) We must see that our public is educated to realities of Russian situation. I cannot over-emphasize importance of this. Press cannot do this alone. It must be done mainly by Government, which is necessarily more experienced and better informed on practical problems involved. In this we need not be deterred by [ugliness?] of picture. I am convinced that there would be far less hysterical anti-Russianism in our country today if realities of this situation were better understood by our people. There is nothing as dangerous or as terrifying as the unknown. It may also be argued that to reveal more information on our difficulties with Russia would reflect unfavorably on Russian-American relations. I feel that if there is any real risk here involved, it is one which we should have courage to face, and sooner the better. But I cannot see what we would be risking. Our stake in this country, even coming on heels of tremendous demonstrations of our friendship for Russian people, is remarkably small. We have here no investments to guard, no actual trade to lose, virtually no citizens to protect, few cultural contacts to preserve. Our only stake lies in what we hope rather than what we have; and I am convinced we have better chance of realizing those hopes if our public is enlightened and if our dealings with Russians are placed entirely on realistic and matter-of-fact basis. (3) Much depends on health and vigor of our own society. World authoritarianism is like malignant parasite which feeds only on diseased tissue. This is point at which domestic and foreign policies meets Every courageous and incisive measure to solve internal problems of our own society, to improve self-confidence, discipline, morale and community spirit of our own people, is a diplomatic victory over Moscow worth a thousand diplomatic notes and joint communiqués. If we cannot abandon fatalism and indifference in face of deficiencies of our own society, Moscow will profit--Moscow cannot help profiting by them in its foreign policies. (4) We must formulate and put forward for other nations a much more positive and constructive picture of sort of world we would like to see than we have put forward in past. It is not enough to urge people to develop political processes similar to our own. Many foreign peoples, in Europe at least, are tired and frightened by experiences of past, and are less interested in abstract freedom than in security. They are seeking guidance rather than responsibilities. We should be better able than Russians to give them this. And unless we do, Russians certainly will. (5) Finally we must have courage and self-confidence to cling to our own methods and conceptions of human society. After Al, the greatest danger that can befall us in coping with this problem of Russian imperialism, is that we shall allow ourselves to become like those with whom we are coping
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Feb 24, 2022 07:44
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You can blame NATO for being too scared to invite the Ukraine in but thats about it
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Feb 24, 2022 07:48
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Wafflepoet posted:Again, gently caress Putin, but do deny the reality that NATO has some responsibility for this situation is simply delusional... Hmmmm...
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Feb 24, 2022 07:48
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Putin is the face of resurgent facism in this century and he must be utterly destroyed eventually, one way or another Here's hoping the Ukranians can hold out and reclaim their country. it's obvious at this point that Putin's goal since at least 2014 was the weakening of NATO and to do so he's been funding right wing loons and the political parties through dark money to elect Isolationist, nationalist, pro Russia leaders. All this to set up his genocidal conquest of Ukraine At this point any of the political parties or orgs in the West getting Russian dark money should be considered under suspicion of fraternizing with a hostile foreign power TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 07:49
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It's hard to call NATO defensive when it's been expanding constantly , and the NATO intervention in Libya wasn't that long ago either.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:50
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Despera posted:You can blame NATO for being too scared to invite the Ukraine in but thats about it Pretty much. NATO's main failure was being too complacent and friendly towards Russia and treating Putin as a peer who could be reasoned with without the backing of arms.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:50
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Well, gently caress.Baronjutter posted:My wife also wanted to go to Kiev this month and her family almost guilted her into it.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:50
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My GFs brother was going to visit us from Kiev tonight. His flight was today, if he literally booked one day earlier he would be safe and sound. Thankfully he already is kinda experienced in escapes (pulled of super quick escape from Belarus earlier) and already on his way to Ternopyl.
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Feb 24, 2022 07:50
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Ghetto Prince posted:It's hard to call NATO defensive when it's been expanding constantly , and the NATO intervention in Libya wasn't that long ago either. Does your nose bleed when you write bullshit like this or is there no reaction at all?
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Feb 24, 2022 07:51
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Hannibal Rex posted:the greatest danger that can befall us in coping with this problem of Russian imperialism, is that we shall allow ourselves to become like those with whom we are coping unfortunate news on this front
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