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MikeC posted:Because there is a better alternative for him than full time occupation? The demands Putin has asked hinge on a full occupation anyways. That's pretty much guaranteed at this point because thats HOW You demilitarize a country. There is absolutely no scenario that doesn't include Russian occupation for an extended period or even possibly permanent Russian bases because effectively Ukraine would become a defacto Russian puppet state if not outright territory.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:55
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Anecdotal story, I was in a meeting this morning with someone who had to suddenly leave because he received a phone call that he had just been issued naval reserve activation orders (in the United States.) I have no idea if this has any bearing on what’s going on in the Ukraine, but I’ve seen zero news about any of the US Armed Forces being activated for any reason at all. Edit I believe he is a naval aviator of some sort. I have no idea what kind.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:55
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Shes Not Impressed posted:https://twitter.com/EJ_Burrows/status/1497252061678813187?s=20&t=zaDN7AZ6ymOyyiKgRV8j4Q How many Dr's are itching to come to russia now and help?
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Feb 25, 2022 17:55
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i mean finland is speeding towards nato memembership now. Is it? The quote that's been thrown around here was from a politician/party that was already very pro nato.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:55
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TheRat posted:The bulk of the russian forces are not engaged. 2/3rds of the forces moved to the Ukranian border are still waiting to be deployed. I was wondering about whether Russia can actually afford to deploy all those forces into Ukraine - it still needs to keep those ready for other crises at a time of particularly heightened tension, doesn't it
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Feb 25, 2022 17:56
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Wait, you're saying the Irish have strong feelings about a larger nation invading their smaller neighbor to the west? I find this hard to swallow.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:56
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How are u posted:Zelensky and Ukrainians seem to have made their point of view pretty clear. They're going to fight the motherfuckers. Zelensky said he is open to negotiations with Russia
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Feb 25, 2022 17:57
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ZombieLenin posted:Anecdotal story, I was in a meeting this morning with someone who had to suddenly leave because he received a phone call that he had just been issued naval reserve activation orders (in the United States.) Dude really wanted to get out of that meeting.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:57
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ronya posted:I was wondering about whether Russia can actually afford to deploy all those forces into Ukraine - it still needs to keep those ready for other crises at a time of particularly heightened tension, doesn't it nah, russia scraped up everything they could to push towards the ukraine border. if anyone wanted to invade eastern russia, now would be the time in terms of afford, this might be a reason why russia is attacking ukraine now. russia is broke and has topped out its ability to expand the military. "contract" soldiers, aka professional soldiers, need to be paid monthly. conscripts do not. a huge chunk of the russian military budget goes just to payroll. russia is about capped out on military strength, but a ukraine with a growing economy means a ukraine with a growing military. as trends continue, it would only be more difficult over time to force a military solution to ukraine waywardness from russian influence Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Feb 25, 2022 |
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Feb 25, 2022 17:57
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Zelensky said he is open to negotiations with Russia anything and everything that buys him/Ukraine time....
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Feb 25, 2022 17:57
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Zelensky said he is open to negotiations with Russia He's open to negotiations. Putin is not. Putins demands are Unconditional Surrender.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:58
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ronya posted:I was wondering about whether Russia can actually afford to deploy all those forces into Ukraine - it still needs to keep those ready for other crises at a time of particularly heightened tension, doesn't it I assume they have forces in reserve for minor events, and Putin is (almost certainly correctly) gambling that nobody is going to try anything stupid.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:58
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TheRat posted:Is it? The quote that's been thrown around here was from a politician/party that was already very pro nato. I mean, the Finnish Prime Minister is here: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/events_67375.htm
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Feb 25, 2022 17:58
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punishedkissinger posted:this seems really tenuous strategically, for Ukraine The Chernobyl direction, troop groups passing through Aleksandrovka and Chernobyl itself, have made some of the most meaningful advances, and may be in position to contest Kyiv entry soon, if not already. Here's an unverified, out of date, and likely inaccurate map that should have the broad strokes right enough for the sake of overview: 
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Feb 25, 2022 17:58
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Josef bugman posted:I also must note that I'd rather we all didn't die in a nuclear war. So anything that'd prevent that would be great. It's not happening, cease your worrying.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:58
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ZombieLenin posted:Anecdotal story, I was in a meeting this morning with someone who had to suddenly leave because he received a phone call that he had just been issued naval reserve activation orders (in the United States.) quote:President Biden and other world leaders responded by condemning the attack, unveiling new sanctions against Russian officials and banks, and deploying an additional 7,000 troops from the United States to Europe. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/23/us-military-pentagon-ukraine-russia/ As they shift personal I'm sure people in the US are being shifted forward as well, to cover the soldiers moving to Europe. Also this: Popete posted:Dude really wanted to get out of that meeting.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:58
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DaysBefore posted:Given all the blown up Russians on the road to Kyiv I'm starting to think the Ukranian Air Force still exists. Or perhaps that Ghost guy is both real and an actual ghost and he's just scaring them until their tanks explode. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w34fSnJNP-4
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Feb 25, 2022 17:58
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Josef bugman posted:I also must note that I'd rather we all didn't die in a nuclear war. So anything that'd prevent that would be great. A good first step for not becoming a casualty of global thermonuclear WW3 is to read the thread rules.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:59
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How are u posted:It's not happening, cease your worrying. Neither are a lot of things until they are. Talks of ratcheting things up or punishing Russia in general, instead of just Putin and the oligarchic shitheads running the whole thing, makes me a touch nervous. Also fine, if this is too close to clancyposting I'll stop.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:59
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Zelensky said he is open to negotiations with Russia He is willing to negotiate. He could surrender any time he wants, but isn't giving up without something in return (yet). Which is why he wants to fight as hard as he can, to try to extract concessions at the negotiating table.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:59
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Popete posted:Dude really wanted to get out of that meeting. He hung around for 40 minutes of it before he said he absolutely had to leave to make sure he could reach his unit station at the specified time of his orders, though I guess fair enough. It could just be something random.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:59
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CommieGIR posted:He's open to negotiations. Putin is not. Putins demands are Unconditional Surrender. Yes maybe, but characterizing Ukraine and Zelensky as uninterested in diplomacy and fully committed to fighting and nothing else is not accurate.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:59
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Hiro Protagonist posted:I mean, the Finnish Prime Minister is here: Attending an emergency meeting is not the same as joining up as a full member though.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:00
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There was a tweet making the rounds that radiation levels at Chernobyl were spiking. This seems to be a reputable source refuting that: https://twitter.com/iaeaorg/status/1497237647458283521?s=20&t=m7jRqciKOrQfM48tL7tmPw
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Feb 25, 2022 18:00
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Hannibal Rex posted:Most of them were in positions of power/influence during the dissolution of the Soviet Union, and bought (sold themselves) state industries for a nickel.* In case of Russia, the new oligarchs are generally literally Putin's buddies. (I would also argue that they are not actually oligarchs since Putin can pretty much oust them at will).
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Feb 25, 2022 18:01
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cinci zoo sniper posted:The Chernobyl direction, troop groups passing through Aleksandrovka and Chernobyl itself, have made some of the most meaningful advances, and may be in position to contest Kyiv entry soon, if not already. Here's an unverified, out of date, and likely inaccurate map that should have the broad strokes right enough for the sake of overview: Thanks!
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Feb 25, 2022 18:02
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Hiro Protagonist posted:I mean, the Finnish Prime Minister is here: president, and Finnish and Swedish heads of state joining NATO meetings is very common despite them no being members.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:02
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Yes maybe, but characterizing Ukraine and Zelensky as uninterested in diplomacy and fully committed to fighting and nothing else is not accurate. The difference being people are claiming that Zelensky is getting anything right now other than exactly what Putin wants to give. Which is basically nothing. Putins demands are: - Unconditional Surrender - Demilitarization / "Denazification" of Ukraine (this no doubt will include occupation by Russian forces) - No Accession to NATO - Basically a license for Russia to veto any Ukrainian decisions These are not negotiable positions.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:02
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KitConstantine posted:Russians fired on a second ship Why is this not a bigger deal? If they fired on not one, but two neutrally flagged ships that's a non-accidental act of war; and you are saying Moldovian flagged, but if a Romanian flagged ship were hit by Russian anti-ship missiles that's an act of war against a NATO state.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:03
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Hiro Protagonist posted:I mean, the Finnish Prime Minister is here: Finnish representatives attend these meetings basically as a rule so par on the course. When the hush-hush stuff happens between member states Finland's and Sweden's reps are not there to hear a thing though.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:03
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CommieGIR posted:The difference being people are claiming that Zelensky is getting anything right now other than exactly what Putin wants to give. Which is basically nothing. You're putting a spin on the demands with your interpretation of them and then presenting them as objective reality and saying Russia won't negotiate them.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:04
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Sinteres posted:You're putting a spin on the demands with your interpretation of them and then presenting them as objective reality and saying Russia won't negotiate them. oh shut the gently caress up (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 25, 2022 18:04
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MikeC posted:Because there is a better alternative for him than full time occupation? Let him try. It will fail.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:04
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Sinteres posted:You're putting a spin on the demands with your interpretation of them and then presenting them as objective reality and saying Russia won't negotiate them. You really think Russia, an invading force currently winning a ground war, is going to negotiate on any of these things? Seriously? Its the entire point of the invasion in the first place
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Feb 25, 2022 18:05
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Sinteres posted:You're putting a spin on the demands with your interpretation of them and then presenting them as objective reality and saying Russia won't negotiate them. Negotiation at gun point is not a bad faith interpretation of Putin's absolute deranged worldview of Ukrainians.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:05
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CommieGIR posted:The difference being people are claiming that Zelensky is getting anything right now other than exactly what Putin wants to give. Which is basically nothing. In other words its a choice between not getting Ukrainians killed but killing Ukraine or getting Ukrainians killed. That's one hell of a Hobsons choice.... 
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Feb 25, 2022 18:05
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Josef bugman posted:Also I don't think dropping AK-47's is a good idea. Not least because, well, arming people who have no experience of using firearms is likely to result in an awful lot of people either killing their families, each other, or forces on their own side that they are confused about. OTOH it does making arranging STALKER larps that much easier. pippy posted:https://twitter.com/NeilPHauer/status/1497231090041430018 The translation is imprecise. "Boyets natsbata" = fighter of nazbat or Nazi Battalion. And how do they tell that? The process is really simple. 1) You shooty Ukrainian 2) From Bag you take Swastika Armband and deploy on Ukrainian's arm 3) You earn $5000!
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Feb 25, 2022 18:05
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CommieGIR posted:You really think Russia, an invading force currently winning a ground war, is going to negotiate on any of these things? Seriously? an invading force winning a war with a well documented history of breaking all previous agreements no less
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Feb 25, 2022 18:05
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Have Some Flowers! posted:There was a tweet making the rounds that radiation levels at Chernobyl were spiking. This seems to be a reputable source refuting that: there are two likely causes for this other than people loving with the extremely notorious and wildly dangerous nuclear disaster: -activity in the area is kicking up radiation (unlikely due to weather and age/past decontamination efforts) -military radios loving with the sensors and causing them to give false readings ZombieLenin posted:Why is this not a bigger deal? If they fired on not one, but two neutrally flagged ships that's a non-accidental act of war; and you are saying Moldovian flagged, but if a Romanian flagged ship were hit by Russian anti-ship missiles that's an act of war against a NATO state. nobody wants this to spiral into a larger war and small frictions of accidentally shooting a few rounds at neutral vessels often gets excused under the "no harm, no foul" clause Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Feb 25, 2022 |
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Feb 25, 2022 18:05
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CommieGIR posted:The difference being people are claiming that Zelensky is getting anything right now other than exactly what Putin wants to give. Which is basically nothing. No, people are pointing out that Zelensky would get something he presumably wants, which is an end to a conflict killing a lot of his people. There is value in that, maybe not worth accepting Putin's demands but your continued characterization of negotiations or diplomacy as just innately without value makes it seem like you value Putin getting a geopolitical black eye more than the lives of Ukranian people. There is a real chance that Putin gets everything he wants in Ukraine, only that its built on top of huge bodies of Ukrainians.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:06
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