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quantumfoam posted:Yeah, Sharpe series makes sense as a influence now that you bring it up. I tend to discount the influence of Napoleonic Wars fiction on other mil-fiction sub-genres, mostly because I find Napoleonic Wars fiction boring. The short and least spoilery way to explain it is to say that it was a running joke for a while that you never tell anyone who your favourite character is, because Dan will hear you and kill them. Most of them go in heartbreaking ways too.
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Feb 25, 2022 12:44
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Fire Caste was really cool. Loved the Heart of Darkness vibes. Anything else like it? I've read and enjoyed Requiem Infernal.
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Feb 25, 2022 13:49
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Arquinsiel posted:It's a reference to this meme. https://twitter.com/afraidofwasps/status/1177301482464526337?lang=en You know, I hadn’t seen that before but it pretty perfectly sums up how a lot of people approach black library fiction and tie in fiction in general. It is awesome that more people are reading because they are able to read (sometimes actually good!) books about their favourite media properties, but they definitely do a lot of OH man this movie about a giant ship that’s massive but it sinks is just like battle for the abyss! rather than thinking hubris might be a theme in many things.
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Feb 25, 2022 14:14
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Chas McGill posted:Fire Caste was really cool. Loved the Heart of Darkness vibes. Anything else like it? I've read and enjoyed Requiem Infernal. Did you read the rest of PF's stuff? Its all interrelated, though sometimes in abstract ways. I read The Reverie and thought it was probably the most interesting look at loyalist space marines I'd seen, but maybe that's just because the atmosphere and the gothic/psychological horror carried it.
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Feb 25, 2022 14:44
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Chas McGill posted:Fire Caste was really cool. Loved the Heart of Darkness vibes. Anything else like it? I've read and enjoyed Requiem Infernal. Cult of the Spiral Dawn is also excellent, though it suffers a bit from being a tie-in from when the GSC were brought back. All of Peter Fehervari's shorts are also excellent and worth tracking down.
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Feb 25, 2022 14:55
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lenoon posted:You know, I hadn’t seen that before but it pretty perfectly sums up how a lot of people approach black library fiction and tie in fiction in general. It is awesome that more people are reading because they are able to read (sometimes actually good!) books about their favourite media properties, but they definitely do a lot of OH man this movie about a giant ship that’s massive but it sinks is just like battle for the abyss! rather than thinking hubris might be a theme in many things. 
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Feb 25, 2022 18:25
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Any of the Deathwatch novels any good? Was thinking of picking up The Omnibus or The Long Vigil since it's an anthology.
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Feb 25, 2022 19:19
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Ardent Communist posted:If you struggled before the third book, probably not. If you struggled with the third book, probably. One of them was just an amalgamation of short stories, and the other I can't remember. But the third book, about the battle of vervunhive.. if you didn't like that then you won't like much of black library. Maybe some of the crime or the weirder authors, but that book just nails the atmosphere. I'm gonna strongly disagree with this. There is so so much black library content that isn't anything like the GG series, especially the early stuff, and even more so after 2013. Please don't give up on BL books because you didn't like the first three GG that would be a big mistake. Personally, I did not like the first three GG either and didn't really get into it until like book 6-7 but I absolutely loved all of the later books. That being said I don't think the series overall is anywhere near the best BL content and I think a lot of fans have some nostalgia tinted glasses for it because it was at one point pretty much the only good BL content back in the day when most of what BL put out was trash. I would highly suggest you check out the Vaults of Terra and Watchers Of The Throne series, Night Lords trilogy, Lord's of Silence, Peter Fehervari's work, Twice Dead King duology, The Infinite and The Divine, , Eseinhorn/Ravenor etc, all the crime books, Fabius Bile trilogy to name a few if you are looking for good BL content that is much different than GG. If you still want something guard related I recommend The Macharian Crusade trilogy. I honestly like it as much as GG and it's slept on by this thread IMO.
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Feb 25, 2022 20:00
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AndyElusive posted:Any of the Deathwatch novels any good? They're a resounding 'meh.'
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Feb 25, 2022 20:07
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black library is 250 books with no overall quality control. there are no commonalities except the central requirement to sell the minis. sturgeons law applies hard. 50 are not bad. 5-10 are good.
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Feb 25, 2022 20:17
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bob dobbs is dead posted:black library is 250 books with no overall quality control. there are no commonalities except the central requirement to sell the minis. It's actually somewhere closer to 600-800 books believe it or not.
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Feb 25, 2022 21:08
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OPAONI posted:They're a resounding 'meh.' That's disappointing. It's not like I don't have other BL books I should read instead, anyways.
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Feb 25, 2022 21:13
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So many of them are terrible. Srsly "wtf am I doing reading this" terrible 
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Feb 25, 2022 21:27
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Picking them at random when I needed something to read and there was one of the Hachette partwork releases in my line of site has resulted in me ending up with comparatively few duds TBH. I'm easily entertained and all, but there are really only maybe three or four that I will definitely not read again.
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Feb 25, 2022 22:39
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I never cared too much for Blood Angel stuff but I'm reading Devastation of Baal and the passages about the threat of loyal space marines being overcome by inherited 10,000-year old memories and swatting down some poor friendly conscripts while sobbing "Why did you betray us? Whyyyy?" is some good stuff.
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Feb 28, 2022 02:40
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That was a good book about spacepires
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Feb 28, 2022 03:05
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They're a good and cool legion
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Feb 28, 2022 05:25
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Kevin DuBrow posted:I never cared too much for Blood Angel stuff but I'm reading Devastation of Baal and the passages about the threat of loyal space marines being overcome by inherited 10,000-year old memories and swatting down some poor friendly conscripts while sobbing "Why did you betray us? Whyyyy?" is some good stuff. I really liked the Dante novel and thought it did some good work to get past the Anne Rice Astartes bullshit, but I found Devastation of Baal to be a bit boring and bolter-porny once the shooting started. It did have some important lore in there though, and let's be honest - we've all waded through worse in this hobby
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Feb 28, 2022 09:19
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Been listening to the audiobook version and so far the only thing I've learned, 7 chapters in, is that marines are all petulant manbabies. Unless you're a character of some worth like Dante, then you're just anguished.
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Feb 28, 2022 15:49
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I'm most of the way through The Master of Mankind and really shocked by how good it is for a book that's ~50 into the HH series. It's a fascinating look into the reasoning behind why the Emperor does what he does, and I love how the Mechanicum views him as the platonic ideal of emotionless logic. He's really a shithead Also I just finished Praetorian of Dorn and it was......................... fine. I think I'm just not super interested in the Imperial Fists, or the Alpha Legion. And they really blew the premise super early - the whole book is about the AL infiltrating Terra, but they could have kept that reveal until later and had it be a real "oh poo poo" moment. That said there is a fun "oh poo poo" moment near the end when Alpharius dies and Omegon basically says "oh, guess I'm Alpharius now"
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Feb 28, 2022 16:49
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Cooked Auto posted:Been listening to the audiobook version and so far the only thing I've learned, 7 chapters in, is that marines are all petulant manbabies. Unless you're a character of some worth like Dante, then you're just anguished. Yeah, this got a little stale pretty quickly. I get that the astartes are giant, proud fight machines with oaths and vengence, etc - but they're also supposed to be super-brained tacticians with eidetic memories and strategic geniuses (compared to a baseline human), so constantly bitching and fighting on the eve of a cataclysmic war with the fate of the entire bloodline and possibly the Imperium in the balance seems a bit... off.
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Mar 1, 2022 11:57
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I dont know, I actually like the idea that even marines can get stressed out, bitter and desperate when the odds are against them. That there's still something human in them.
Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Mar 1, 2022 |
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Mar 1, 2022 14:34
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Arc Hammer posted:I dont know I like the idea that even marines can get stressed out, bitter and desperate when the odds are against them. That there's still something human in them. Why don't you like it? I find that idea compelling, and adds depth to their character.
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Mar 1, 2022 14:50
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I think I prefer Space Marine books where the POV is from the outside like Spears. Now that one was good. Even if I'll give some leeway to other authors as I listened to the Know No Fear audiobook and that one was solid.
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Mar 1, 2022 15:41
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Angry Lobster posted:Why don't you like it? I find that idea compelling, and adds depth to their character. I missed a comma. I *do* like the idea that marines are still human. Should have read "I don't know, I do like it"
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Mar 1, 2022 16:17
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Angry Lobster posted:Why don't you like it? I find that idea compelling, and adds depth to their character. I think that, when confronted by things they can't murder their way out of, Space Marines being basically emotional children fits the cruelty inherent in their creation. They are, essentially, souped-up child soldiers.
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Mar 1, 2022 16:21
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Yeah their conditioning only goes so far and beyond it the only thing they have is 10-12 years of life as a child in some absolute hellhole. They are an amazing achievement but ultimately still human at their base.
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Mar 1, 2022 16:36
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I go back to Helsreach and the way Priamus dies at the end. He's an arrogant prick the whole book who thinks he's the hot poo poo in Grimaldus's squad. By the end he's basically crying as the temple comes crashing down on top of them.
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Mar 1, 2022 16:55
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D-Pad posted:Yeah their conditioning only goes so far and beyond it the only thing they have is 10-12 years of life as a child in some absolute hellhole. They are an amazing achievement but ultimately still human at their base. Then you have Marines like the Brazen Consuls who spend their initial childhoods on wealthy worlds far from being considered hellholes and are recruited solely from the world's nobility. Arc Hammer posted:I go back to Helsreach and the way Priamus dies at the end. He's an arrogant prick the whole book who thinks he's the hot poo poo in Grimaldus's squad. By the end he's basically crying as the temple comes crashing down on top of them. The Helsreach animation makes him look like an absolute badass though when he picks up the sword of the fallen Emperor's Champion and begins to cut a swathe through the attacking Orks after Grim tells him to nut up or shut up.
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Mar 1, 2022 17:37
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Cooked Auto posted:Been listening to the audiobook version and so far the only thing I've learned, 7 chapters in, is that marines are all petulant manbabies. Unless you're a character of some worth like Dante, then you're just anguished.
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Mar 1, 2022 17:45
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quantumfoam posted:Cool, thanks for the feedback. Yeah, there’s other things out there. I really dislike most of Abnett’s work but I love ADB, Fehervari, Wraight, and then there’s kind of a second tier of guys who have a few good books but are otherwise just okay, like French, McNeill, etc.
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Mar 1, 2022 18:03
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AndyElusive posted:Then you have Marines like the Brazen Consuls who spend their initial childhoods on wealthy worlds far from being considered hellholes and are recruited solely from the world's nobility. I like that in Devastation of Baal Roboute talks about how chapter homeworlds probably shouldn't be deathworld hellholes. It'd be interesting to see some chapters work on improving their homes while others try to stick to their "traditional" harshness.
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Mar 1, 2022 19:31
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OPAONI posted:I think that, when confronted by things they can't murder their way out of, Space Marines being basically emotional children fits the cruelty inherent in their creation. They are, essentially, souped-up child soldiers. Both this and the making them more alien thing seems like it would be fun
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Mar 1, 2022 21:26
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Dog_Meat posted:Yeah, this got a little stale pretty quickly. I get that the astartes are giant, proud fight machines with oaths and vengence, etc - but they're also supposed to be super-brained tacticians with eidetic memories and strategic geniuses (compared to a baseline human), so constantly bitching and fighting on the eve of a cataclysmic war with the fate of the entire bloodline and possibly the Imperium in the balance seems a bit... off. I mean this is a constant tension when describing Astartes between what they're supposed to be, and the genre conventions. Like they're supposed to be elite and highly effective soldiers . . . but the narrative construct for most 40k adventures in these pulp books is for them to turn up, have no idea who their opponents are, get surprised as a big threat is revealed, and then spend the rest of the book blundering towards a mcguffin while everyone except a couple named protagonists gets killed. Which clearly can't be your MO if you want your organisation to survive!
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Mar 1, 2022 22:00
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That's why they really work well when viewed from the perspective of a regular human.
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Mar 1, 2022 23:05
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Astartes are, first and foremost, a bludgeon to be swung. That's what they are for, that's why the emperor made them. Their job was to kill everything standing between him and his new world. The fact that they are good at other things is an added benefit.
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Mar 1, 2022 23:34
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The Urdesh books space marine pretty good. Giant supersoldiers who are mildly bemused over common humanity.
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Mar 2, 2022 00:20
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Genghis Cohen posted:I mean this is a constant tension when describing Astartes between what they're supposed to be, and the genre conventions. Like they're supposed to be elite and highly effective soldiers . . . but the narrative construct for most 40k adventures in these pulp books is for them to turn up, have no idea who their opponents are, get surprised as a big threat is revealed, and then spend the rest of the book blundering towards a mcguffin while everyone except a couple named protagonists gets killed. Which clearly can't be your MO if you want your organisation to survive! Tbf before rowboat woke up every chapter was basically on the verge of extinction because of exactly this problem…. I take it as the descriptions of them as elite highly effective soldiers were always partially propaganda, and closest to truth in 30k and only drifting further from that point since.
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Mar 2, 2022 00:24
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Sextro posted:Tbf before rowboat woke up every chapter was basically on the verge of extinction because of exactly this problem…. I take it as the descriptions of them as elite highly effective soldiers were always partially propaganda, and closest to truth in 30k and only drifting further from that point since. One of the things that I love in Know No Fear is that it shows Guilliman's vision for the Astartes when the wars are all done (lol), with his commanders becoming statesmen and running planets, etc. But... you know... grim future and all that
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Mar 2, 2022 12:06
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Dog_Meat posted:One of the things that I love in Know No Fear is that it shows Guilliman's vision for the Astartes when the wars are all done (lol), with his commanders becoming statesmen and running planets, etc. I feel like even if the Heresy hadn't have played out like it did, there would have been a second civil war when big E pulled another Thunder Warriors on the Legions. I don't think his plan was for humanity to be ruled by a caste of posthuman monsters. Just one posthuman monster.
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Mar 2, 2022 12:20
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