|
Raenir Salazar posted:Before this all began I was expecting something closer to the fictional performance of the Soviet Army as depicted in the novel Red Army by Ralph Peters which is a cool and interesting book. Actually there are many things that do remind me of Red Army. I think its a great book. The war begins with the USSR negotiating in bad faith while positioning its troops for the invasion. The regular soldiers think they're on a training exercise and don't realize its the real thing until theyre already heading into Germany. Literally happened in this case too. Military victory is predicated on political fracturing of the west and a shock campaign to convince the German government to surrender. Same deal here: the Russians planned to quickly shock the Ukrainians into surrender, certain that divisions within NATO would forestall a meaningful response. The Soviet forces attempt to bypass major cities unless absolutely necessary, the goal being to drive their mechanized forces into the enemy rear echelon as far as possible with little regards to outrunning their supply lines. When they face resistance they try to detach forces onto secondary and tertiary roads--any road going west. Where urban combat does occur by necessity, it quickly becomes horrific. The Soviets also try landing VDV everywhere and many of the missions end up as suicide missions. In the book the soviets do win despite many shortcomings (the book assumes luck favors them and admits it). Id recommend everyone here to read it tbh, because besides all that it's a good read.
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 08:56 |
|
|
Knightsoul posted:It's been years since the russians clearly said the NATO expansion towards their borders wasn't acceptable for them, what other "serious attempts at negotiation" you need? Are you white knighting a fascist leader of a clepto-capitalist mafia state who kills political opponents (and random unrelated people) with nerve agents and radiological poisons on foreign soil, who just delivered a Hitleresque speech about “Greater Russia” and how Ukrainian statehood is a fiction, before invading that country and then using thermobaric weapons on civilians to terrorize them? Because it sounds like it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:28
|
|
|
Knightsoul posted:It's been years since the russians clearly said the NATO expansion towards their borders wasn't acceptable for them, what other "serious attempts at negotiation" you need? So screw the wishes of the Ukrainian people I guess, they're just doomed to be dominated by Russia forever because they're smaller and right next door?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:28
|
|
|
Knightsoul posted:It's been years since the russians clearly said the NATO expansion towards their borders wasn't acceptable for them, what other "serious attempts at negotiation" you need? Hello Mr. President, don't you have a Russian economy to run into the ground?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:28
|
|
|
theghostpt posted:gently caress me, they are supposed to be tame?! They report state propaganda using very neutral, literary language is what I meant. Sputnik, their international spinoff, is where you read about homonazi pogroms. If you said this in reference to “solution to the Ukrainian question” - that’s just an opinion column. Similar to WSJ, which has no nonsense business news alongside insane racist rants by senators.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:28
|
|
|
Knightsoul posted:It's been years since the russians clearly said the NATO expansion towards their borders wasn't acceptable for them, what other "serious attempts at negotiation" you need? иди нахуй
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:28
|
|
|
Play posted:Do as you will, and perhaps you're right, but I would like to try and do something. I've donated what I can already, and this appeals to me so I'm going to do it. I find it unlikely that a person in the US could possibly get in trouble for simply clicking on a link that sends requests to .ru domains Eletronic Warfare Station https://www.armyrecognition.com/rus...ures_video.html
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:29
|
|
|
Even Putin gave up the "NATO is mean" line of reasoning
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:29
|
|
|
Knightsoul posted:It's been years since the russians clearly said the NATO expansion towards their borders wasn't acceptable for them, what other "serious attempts at negotiation" you need? Go gently caress yourself, Russia has no right to invade an independent sovereign state just because they don't like who that state might ally with.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:29
|
|
|
Knightsoul posted:This "military adventure" as you call it, is just the final attempt Russia is doing to defend it's sphere of influence. Can you really blame them? I'm pretty sure if the US reacted by invading Mexico or Canada, no one would be particularly supportive.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:29
|
|
|
cinci zoo sniper posted:They report state propaganda using very neutral, literary language is what I meant. Sputnik, their international spinoff, is where you read about homonazi pogroms. Gotcha, that does clarify it!
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:30
|
|
|
Knightsoul posted:It's been years since the russians clearly said the NATO expansion towards their borders wasn't acceptable for them, what other "serious attempts at negotiation" you need? Can you blame nations living in the shadow or Russia getting a bit nervous and wanting to take part in some sort of alliance that might give them some security? Russia was never under any realistic threat from the west, look at how much money and bodies it cost the US to invade a couple of third world countries. Military action against a nuclear armed superpower is fanciful. The 'sphere of influence' crap is just another word for empire-building. The trouble is, those countries have no desire to be part of that empire and are apparently willing to fight to the death to keep it that way.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:30
|
|
|
Knightsoul posted:It's been years since the russians clearly said the NATO expansion towards their borders wasn't acceptable for them, what other "serious attempts at negotiation" you need? I'm more sympathetic to Russia's strategic concerns than most here, but yes, I can definitely blame them for invading their neighbor. There's a lot NATO could have done diplomatically to have helped make this war not happen, but there's no justification for Russia's actions over the past week whatsoever. Russia has strengthened NATO significantly through this asinine campaign, when all they had to do was keep rattling the saber, let Ukraine continue to be poor, and not start a war. e: and yeah, if Canada or Mexico entered into an alliance with a hostile country, we'd probably invade, because we're a right-wing dying empire, and there'd still be no justification for it. Majorian fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Feb 27, 2022 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:30
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1497682701796757504 Summary: quote:Russian forces advancing north and east from Crimea threaten to cut off Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine if Kyiv des not withdraw them in the coming days. Seems about right. I wonder if NATO intends to supply air or armoured vehicles? What is in that US package anyway?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:30
|
|
|
Knightsoul posted:It's been years since the russians clearly said the NATO expansion towards their borders wasn't acceptable for them, what other "serious attempts at negotiation" you need? Ah yes, Russia is defending itself by attacking a sovereign country unprovoked. Putin very obviously doesn't fear NATO aggression, if he did, he wouldn't have launched this attack.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:31
|
|
|
Knightsoul posted:It's been years since the russians clearly said the NATO expansion towards their borders wasn't acceptable for them, what other "serious attempts at negotiation" you need? Always funny to see one of you guys pop up. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:31
|
|
|
Knightsoul posted:It's been years since the russians clearly said the NATO expansion towards their borders wasn't acceptable for them, what other "serious attempts at negotiation" you need? His actions just crippled the futures of his own citizen for possible generations to come. Russia is about to plunge back into the dark ages. No way wss a supposed NATO threat worth it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:31
|
|
|
I found this video going through Russia's strategic motivations pretty informative for someone like me that doesn't know the geography well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If61baWF4GE&t=1580s
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:31
|
|
|
Knightsoul posted:It's been years since the russians clearly said the NATO expansion towards their borders wasn't acceptable for them, what other "serious attempts at negotiation" you need? So my question is, why was Russia losing the peace so badly that all out invasion was their only option? If Ukraine is so vital to Russian national security, maybe antagonizing it to the point that the West looks like a better ally was not the best diplomatic route?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:32
|
|
|
Knightsoul posted:It's been years since the russians clearly said the NATO expansion towards their borders wasn't acceptable for them, what other "serious attempts at negotiation" you need? Counterpoint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDrFVdms8yk&t=44s
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:32
|
|
|
Preoptopus posted:His actions just crippled the futures of his own citizen for possible generations to come. His actions just strengthened NATO, largely seen as a cold war relic previously, a great deal.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:32
|
|
|
That was nauseating to watch, but I'll take the silver lining that at least Trump isn't taking the Tucker Carlson line that Ukraine doesn't exist and that we should actively be supporting Russia (and thereby spreading that view to at least a third of the populace overnight). Inexplicably, Trump has been out-jackassed on this one. I don't believe for a minute he means what he's saying, but for this very moment, I'll take it. Also: https://twitter.com/JakeCordell/status/1497711991552675841
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:33
|
|
|
Knightsoul posted:This "military adventure" as you call it, is just the final attempt Russia is doing to defend it's sphere of influence. Can you really blame them? To humor this stupid loving analogy for a minute: If the US had for years been insisting that BC was rightfully American territory, due to being Anglophone or whatever, had been funding American-militias in the area for years, and sending in Delta Force under thin veils of deniability to kill Canadian soldiers and police in the area, I as an American would absolutely think that Ottawa was well within in it's rights as a sovereign country threatened by a belligerent neighbor to seek out alliances with more friendly powers. If you don't want your near-abroad to seek out protection from you in alliances, don't loving conduct your affairs in a way that makes them feel that they need it. Yes, I can "really blame them". Democratically elected states have the right to set their own foreign policy. And to preemptively rebut the inevitable point about something the US supported in Central America during the Cold War you're probably typing up: That was bad too! Fill Baptismal fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Feb 27, 2022 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:33
|
|
|
Knightsoul posted:It's been years since the russians clearly said the NATO expansion towards their borders wasn't acceptable for them, what other "serious attempts at negotiation" you need? But Ukraine was never going to be able to join NATO or the EU, because of the Russian-occupied puppet republics in the east. Everyone knows that. So . . . what was the threat to Russia?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:33
|
|
|
Knightsoul posted:It's been years since the russians clearly said the NATO expansion towards their borders wasn't acceptable for them, what other "serious attempts at negotiation" you need? buddy, you said that putin was trying to hold out until the last minute. that was plainly false. nato ascension is nowhere near happening, the crisis was entirely manufactured by his own troop build-up. he chose to break off upcoming high-level discussions and instead invade ukraine. you can blame western leaders of a lot of things in eastern europe, but putin chose to escalate to an invasion of ukraine. there was no moral or even strategic justification for doing that. quote:This "military adventure" as you call it, is just the final attempt Russia is doing to defend it's sphere of influence. Can you really blame them? i mean... yes, i can blame them? killing shitloads of people to "defend its sphere of influence" is actually super evil? i certainly would not be surprised if the united states intervened in, say, mexico if they tried to ally with russia. after all, we've done it many, many times with the cia in south and central america. but, crucially, those interventions were *really loving evil.* that does not make what russia is doing now ok, and it certainly is not the norm. there is no doubt at all that a hypothetical american reaction to mexico aligning with russia does not make russia's action even remotely justifiable to anyone with a working sense of ethics.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:33
|
|
|
maybe this is getting off in the weeds but how fuel hungry are these tanks? I saw a few pages back that an Abrahams takes around 10 gallons just to get started? Even if that was only 5 that is bonkers to my toyota corollafied world. Tanks seem much more "on a leash" than I thought because of this. also while the smiley is still has the new scent 
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:34
|
|
|
Ah, come the gently caress on.... https://twitter.com/nezumi_ningen/status/1497666530070441991?s=20&t=YWSOZX1-jMczBRdEwzuV2A Like what loving products would we even have on Texas retail shelves. Maybe some vodka, but can't see anything else. And Abbott isn't the only one, because Lt. Gov Delbert Hosemann of Mississippi is doing the same poo poo, too. I need Zelensky to derail this blatant opportunism by saying "Trans kids need defending too" or something.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:34
|
|
|
Play posted:If anything the west would rather Russia had full access to social media, I would assume? Of course. I speculate that they’re limiting networks they don’t control to hamper anti-war protests and general information spread. R-330Zh is a jammer for cell comms, satellite comms, and GPS networks.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:35
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:35
|
|
posted:
|
Knightsoul posted:It's been years since the russians clearly said the NATO expansion towards their borders wasn't acceptable for them, what other "serious attempts at negotiation" you need? А тебе іди нахуй піздєць. так сілно ти любеш сосати членом путина! смакота? тобі молодєць, хуйло!
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:36
|
|
|
OctaMurk posted:Actually there are many things that do remind me of Red Army. I think its a great book. drat! Well said! I completely didn't consider this but thinking back you're absolutely right.  Although to be fair, in the book it isn't well established what exactly the causes of the war are; I got the impression Peters tried to make as neutral a scenario as possible just to focus on what a successful invasion would look like? I don't think its hinted at until like the end of the book.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:37
|
|
|
SUNKOS posted:I think this might have been covered in the thread earlier? There's a stupid amount of pages I've missed but I saw this on Twitter that's from 13 hours ago and I don't know if any of this has or can be verified but sharing since it seems to line up with what we've seen: https://twitter.com/RihoTerras/status/1497537193346220038 Why would Putin be in the Urals? It was a consensus prior in the thread that this reads like fanfic. Though the dude himself is European Parliament member it looks like his source is bad/propaganda. Also what kind of raw materials does Finland export to Russia that are relevant for any weapons? Sure there are some raw materials but it seems like a stretch there'd be any impact recently.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:37
|
|
|
buglord posted:maybe this is getting off in the weeds but how fuel hungry are these tanks? I saw a few pages back that an Abrahams takes around 10 gallons just to get started? Even if that was only 5 that is bonkers to my toyota corollafied world. Tanks seem much more "on a leash" than I thought because of this. Rule of thumb is if they're doing anything remotely tank-like, like going off-road or over obstacles, it's getting less than a mile per gallon.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:38
|
|
|
Im so loving tired of that lovely mexico analogy. Mexico wasnt invaded in 2014 or 2008.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:38
|
|
|
Young Freud posted:I need Zelensky to derail this blatant opportunism by saying "Trans kids need defending too" or something. He's 100% not going to get involved in contentious domestic issues of a country whose support he incredibly desperately needs right now.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:39
|
|
|
Poster Knightsoul, go gently caress yourself.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:40
|
|
|
Knightsoul posted:I think he hoped 'till the last minute before starting the war that this whole crisis could be avoided, since he knew for sure that it would make him look like the new coming of Satan on earth. Motherfucker you are talking like Emperor Palpatine and still seeing yourself as on the good guy side.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:40
|
|
|
Young Freud posted:Ah, come the gently caress on.... He's just using this as an excuse to freeze out Doktorskaya Kobasa, which, if introduced, would decimate the texan bbq industry.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:40
|
|
|
I don’t know zelensky’s personal positions but I would not look to Eastern European politicians for good opinions on lgbt rights.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 08:56 |
|
|
I don't think this is gonna go over well at the UN security council meeting tomorrow https://twitter.com/rob_korczak/status/1497741177206026241?t=Zvu_qMB_eWukfZxx0BD1jA&s=19
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2022 02:42
|
|
