READ OP! War in Ukraine: a distressed blender making too many margaritas at once

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TheRat: Aug 30, 2006

Ynglaur posted:

A quick thought on Geneva Convention chat. The Convention does have the idea of proportional retaliation. So if Army B summarily executes 100 POWs from Army B, Army B can do the same to 100 of it's POWs from Army A.

In this case, I think Ukraine is on firm legal ground to video record POWs calling their parents and release those video recordings to the global public, in retaliation for Russia targeting hospitals, using cluster munitions in residential areas with no known combatants in those buildings, and looting and pillaging.

If this is a joke it's not particularly funny

# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:52

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 00:39

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

TheRat posted:

One of these two is explicitly a war crime, and it's not the thermobaric weapons.

Given Russian's history of war criming, I'm not going to get pissed about videos of POWS being well treated being allowed to call family/friends. There's bigger fish to fry. Given that the Ukrainian response is largely driven by Partisan and irregular forces now, I'll get angry when they actually harm a POW. Thusfar they've been more than accommodating to Russian POWs.

# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:53

OctaMurk: Jun 21, 2013

KitConstantine posted:

Going off of actual no-poo poo unsecured short wave radio chatter from the Russian units themselves this is actually true.

This thread includes actual recordings of the soldiers themselves, if you want to listen and can speak Russian

https://twitter.com/sbreakintl/status/1498619309618503680?t=9avDDkfNwlSH8hH4thZpjQ&s=19

this should be more worrying than reassuring if its at all true. if the russians are able to get this far with soldiers who dont even know their at war and no logistics, then its a matter of time until they start figuring some poo poo out and ukraine is totally boned

# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:53

Ynglaur: Oct 9, 2013; The Malta Conference, anyone?

Thanks for the detailed response Dante.

# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:54

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

�What if war crimes are acceptable if I like the criminal� is not a wise take, full stop.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:54

ummel: Jun 17, 2002; <3 Lowtax; Fun Shoe

Might have been posted.

https://twitter.com/danriversitv/status/1498612647729811461

# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:54

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

Dante posted:

This is 100% false, which has been posted over and over in this thread. To quote the ICRC:

not sure you read that all the way through, as there's this part which has been consistently ignored:

quote:

If there is a compelling public interest in revealing the identity of a prisoner (for instance, owing to their seniority or because they are wanted by justice) or if it is in the prisoner�s vital interest to do so (for example, when they go missing), then the materials may exceptionally be released, but only insofar as they respect the prisoner�s dignity

both of those exceptions arguably apply here: there are compelling public interests in revealing the identity of the prisoners because the country they are from are lying to the public about where they are and what they are doing; also given that the country they are from is lying to its public about what is happening to its soldiers, it is in their interest for this to be broadcast in a way russia cannot surpress

in any event, assuming for the sake of argument that it is in fact prohibited, it is an incredibly minor infraction compared to launching an unprovoked war of conquest in which civilians are being deliberately targeted so uh let's continue discussing the international crime equivalent of jaywalking i guess?

# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:54

Guildencrantz: May 1, 2012; IM ONE OF THE GOOD ONES

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

What are russians envisioning when they say "nazi" anyway? In the US when people think of nazis the primary attribute is being very racist. Anti-jewish racism specifically. like "a nazi is the guys who did the holocaust" is their primary attribute when we are saying someone is "a nazi", like nazis did other things too but that is the specific connotation of calling someone nazi, being extra racist. Is that the same in russia? What guy are the imagining when they think of "a nazi"? If they say ukraine is full of nazis are they mostly saying it's super super racist, or is there some other specific thing they are trying to say? It feels like russia had a different sort of history with nazis than the US did, the whole nazi thing is clearly just a boogieman they are using, but are they being super random or does "a nazi" conjure up a different image in a russian memory than in the US?

Primarily it's meant to conjure up the image of the Great Patriotic War. To Russians, the Nazis are first and foremost the people who invaded and brutalized the USSR and were defeated at great cost. The ideological side, as a war against fascism and ultranationalism, was played up heavily during the USSR days, but less so now.

From the PoV of the current Russian elite's interpretation of history, the Great Patriotic War is no longer viewed as the great clash between communism and fascism, but as the great clash between Russia and invading Westerners. The brutal and genocidal nature of the Nazis is attributed less to their racist ideology and more to their, well, German-ness and Western-ness. Thus, modern enemies of Russia can be connected, however tenuously, to Nazism, as under this view they share the essential characteristic of Nazism: being the emanation of the eternal Western desire to subjugate and enslave Russia. It's a view of the world that's based on civilizations having these ultra-long-term essential characteristics that may manifest differently depending on the era, but at the end of the day, Napoleon's invasion, Hitler's invasion, the Cold War, and now "NATO encirclement" are chapters of the same story with different trappings. Hence Nazis.

This is, of course, insane, and mostly the view of a handful of nationalist intellectuals influential mainly in the Kremlin. So propaganda needs to play up the Azov thing for the general public. But if you're a hardline Putinist, then the above is probably your logic.

# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:54

nurmie: Dec 8, 2019

Tearing up the Geneva Convention to own the Putinists

# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:54

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

mlmp08 posted:

�What if war crimes are acceptable if I like the criminal� is not a wise take, full stop.

nurmie posted:

Tearing up the Geneva Convention to own the Putinists

You can stop with the hot takes now, thanks.

# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:55

KitConstantine: Jan 11, 2013

Interesting article providing some possible explanations for the lack of Russian Air support

https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/mysterious-case-missing-russian-air-force

Summary:

1. Russia may be running out of precision/guided missiles and doesn't yet have political approval to drop unguided munitions - this seems to be changing

2. Risk of friendly fire incidents - communication/coordination has been demonstrably hosed on the ground and jumpy Russian SAM operators may be as big a threat as Ukrainian ones

3. Lack of experienced pilots - I'll quote the article directly for this

quote:

While accurate numbers across each unit are hard to find, periodic Russian official statements suggest an average of 100–120 hours per year across the VKS as a whole. Fighter unit flying hours are likely to be lower than those for transport or helicopter units, so the real figure is probably a little under 100. RAF and US Air Force fighter pilots often complain that they struggle to maintain multirole combat readiness with around 180–240 flying hours a year, access to modern high-fidelity simulators for additional training, and better cockpit ergonomics and weapon interfaces than their Russian counterparts.

# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:56

GABA ghoul: Oct 29, 2011

cant cook creole bream posted:

Sorry, but you're portraying those soldiers as more naive than it is reasonable. They crossed the border with countless tanks and other hardware. The only way they could have thought they were still peacefully doing their own thing within Russia, when some wild Ukranians started to shoot at them is if they accepted the propaganda that the Eastern Ukraine already declared to be part of it.

They went to the border to do some posturing and suddenly Putin told them to cross it. There's no big ambiguity there.

Lots of these people genuinely didn't seem to realize they were in Ukraine and were just following the truck in front of them at night.

Even from the command side this whole things seems really weird. Command sent the forces in without orders, supplies, communication or officer support. It's like they were under the assumption that actual combat is a negligible risk not worth considering? This operation is absolutely bizarre.

Putin might have been 99.9% sure that Ukraine will just collapse.

# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:57

Heck Yes! Loam!: Nov 15, 2004; a rich, friable soil containing a relatively equal mixture of sand and silt and a somewhat smaller proportion of clay.

I think we can deal with a minor breach of the Geneva convention after they have defended their country or died trying. I assume anyone tut tutting the Ukrainian government is more than ready to execute Russian leadership at the hague.

# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:58

TheRat: Aug 30, 2006

GABA ghoul posted:

Lots of these people genuinely didn't seem to realize they were in Ukraine and where just following the truck in front of them at night.

Even from the command side this whole things seems really weird. Command sent the forces in without orders, supplies, communication or officer support. It's like they were under the assumption that actual combat is a negligible risk not worth considering? This operation is absolutely bizarre.

Putin might have been 99.9% sure that Ukraine will just collapse.

It's almost so unbelievable it might not even be true.

# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:58

Blue Footed Booby: Oct 4, 2006; got those happy feet

Grouchio posted:

Morning goons! Anything I missed since midnight EST?

Everyone in Moldova has been replaced with pod people.

# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:00

Cimber: Feb 3, 2014

Whelp, looks like Belarus made it official.

# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:00

KitConstantine: Jan 11, 2013