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Ynglaur posted:A quick thought on Geneva Convention chat. The Convention does have the idea of proportional retaliation. So if Army B summarily executes 100 POWs from Army B, Army B can do the same to 100 of it's POWs from Army A. If this is a joke it's not particularly funny
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:52 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 03:52 |
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TheRat posted:One of these two is explicitly a war crime, and it's not the thermobaric weapons. Given Russian's history of war criming, I'm not going to get pissed about videos of POWS being well treated being allowed to call family/friends. There's bigger fish to fry. Given that the Ukrainian response is largely driven by Partisan and irregular forces now, I'll get angry when they actually harm a POW. Thusfar they've been more than accommodating to Russian POWs.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:53 |
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KitConstantine posted:Going off of actual no-poo poo unsecured short wave radio chatter from the Russian units themselves this is actually true. this should be more worrying than reassuring if its at all true. if the russians are able to get this far with soldiers who dont even know their at war and no logistics, then its a matter of time until they start figuring some poo poo out and ukraine is totally boned
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:53 |
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Thanks for the detailed response Dante.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:54 |
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“What if war crimes are acceptable if I like the criminal” is not a wise take, full stop. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:54 |
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Might have been posted. https://twitter.com/danriversitv/status/1498612647729811461
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:54 |
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Dante posted:This is 100% false, which has been posted over and over in this thread. To quote the ICRC: not sure you read that all the way through, as there's this part which has been consistently ignored: quote:If there is a compelling public interest in revealing the identity of a prisoner (for instance, owing to their seniority or because they are wanted by justice) or if it is in the prisoner’s vital interest to do so (for example, when they go missing), then the materials may exceptionally be released, but only insofar as they respect the prisoner’s dignity both of those exceptions arguably apply here: there are compelling public interests in revealing the identity of the prisoners because the country they are from are lying to the public about where they are and what they are doing; also given that the country they are from is lying to its public about what is happening to its soldiers, it is in their interest for this to be broadcast in a way russia cannot surpress in any event, assuming for the sake of argument that it is in fact prohibited, it is an incredibly minor infraction compared to launching an unprovoked war of conquest in which civilians are being deliberately targeted so uh let's continue discussing the international crime equivalent of jaywalking i guess?
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:54 |
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:What are russians envisioning when they say "nazi" anyway? In the US when people think of nazis the primary attribute is being very racist. Anti-jewish racism specifically. like "a nazi is the guys who did the holocaust" is their primary attribute when we are saying someone is "a nazi", like nazis did other things too but that is the specific connotation of calling someone nazi, being extra racist. Is that the same in russia? What guy are the imagining when they think of "a nazi"? If they say ukraine is full of nazis are they mostly saying it's super super racist, or is there some other specific thing they are trying to say? It feels like russia had a different sort of history with nazis than the US did, the whole nazi thing is clearly just a boogieman they are using, but are they being super random or does "a nazi" conjure up a different image in a russian memory than in the US? Primarily it's meant to conjure up the image of the Great Patriotic War. To Russians, the Nazis are first and foremost the people who invaded and brutalized the USSR and were defeated at great cost. The ideological side, as a war against fascism and ultranationalism, was played up heavily during the USSR days, but less so now. From the PoV of the current Russian elite's interpretation of history, the Great Patriotic War is no longer viewed as the great clash between communism and fascism, but as the great clash between Russia and invading Westerners. The brutal and genocidal nature of the Nazis is attributed less to their racist ideology and more to their, well, German-ness and Western-ness. Thus, modern enemies of Russia can be connected, however tenuously, to Nazism, as under this view they share the essential characteristic of Nazism: being the emanation of the eternal Western desire to subjugate and enslave Russia. It's a view of the world that's based on civilizations having these ultra-long-term essential characteristics that may manifest differently depending on the era, but at the end of the day, Napoleon's invasion, Hitler's invasion, the Cold War, and now "NATO encirclement" are chapters of the same story with different trappings. Hence Nazis. This is, of course, insane, and mostly the view of a handful of nationalist intellectuals influential mainly in the Kremlin. So propaganda needs to play up the Azov thing for the general public. But if you're a hardline Putinist, then the above is probably your logic.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:54 |
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Tearing up the Geneva Convention to own the Putinists
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:54 |
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mlmp08 posted:“What if war crimes are acceptable if I like the criminal” is not a wise take, full stop. nurmie posted:Tearing up the Geneva Convention to own the Putinists You can stop with the hot takes now, thanks.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:55 |
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Interesting article providing some possible explanations for the lack of Russian Air support https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/mysterious-case-missing-russian-air-force Summary: 1. Russia may be running out of precision/guided missiles and doesn't yet have political approval to drop unguided munitions - this seems to be changing 2. Risk of friendly fire incidents - communication/coordination has been demonstrably hosed on the ground and jumpy Russian SAM operators may be as big a threat as Ukrainian ones 3. Lack of experienced pilots - I'll quote the article directly for this quote:While accurate numbers across each unit are hard to find, periodic Russian official statements suggest an average of 100–120 hours per year across the VKS as a whole. Fighter unit flying hours are likely to be lower than those for transport or helicopter units, so the real figure is probably a little under 100. RAF and US Air Force fighter pilots often complain that they struggle to maintain multirole combat readiness with around 180–240 flying hours a year, access to modern high-fidelity simulators for additional training, and better cockpit ergonomics and weapon interfaces than their Russian counterparts.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:56 |
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cant cook creole bream posted:Sorry, but you're portraying those soldiers as more naive than it is reasonable. They crossed the border with countless tanks and other hardware. The only way they could have thought they were still peacefully doing their own thing within Russia, when some wild Ukranians started to shoot at them is if they accepted the propaganda that the Eastern Ukraine already declared to be part of it. Lots of these people genuinely didn't seem to realize they were in Ukraine and were just following the truck in front of them at night. Even from the command side this whole things seems really weird. Command sent the forces in without orders, supplies, communication or officer support. It's like they were under the assumption that actual combat is a negligible risk not worth considering? This operation is absolutely bizarre. Putin might have been 99.9% sure that Ukraine will just collapse.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:57 |
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I think we can deal with a minor breach of the Geneva convention after they have defended their country or died trying. I assume anyone tut tutting the Ukrainian government is more than ready to execute Russian leadership at the hague.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:58 |
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GABA ghoul posted:Lots of these people genuinely didn't seem to realize they were in Ukraine and where just following the truck in front of them at night. It's almost so unbelievable it might not even be true.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 15:58 |
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Grouchio posted:Morning goons! Anything I missed since midnight EST? Everyone in Moldova has been replaced with pod people.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:00 |
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Whelp, looks like Belarus made it official.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:00 |
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TheRat posted:It's almost so unbelievable it might not even be true. Again, there's literally recordings of Russian military personnel talking to each other on short wave radio where they say it's true
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:00 |
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mlmp08 posted:It is not, no. They are legal to use. Russian special forces used thermobaric rockets in the Beslan school siege. Take that in, they used thermobaric weapons against a school filled with Russian children who were being held hostage. I can only imagine what they are going to do the Ukrainians...
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:01 |
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GABA ghoul posted:Lots of these people genuinely didn't seem to realize they were in Ukraine and were just following the truck in front of them at night. They almost certainly lie - it sounds like a legend they were told to say if they are caught.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:01 |
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:What are russians envisioning when they say "nazi" anyway? In the US when people think of nazis the primary attribute is being very racist. Anti-jewish racism specifically. like "a nazi is the guys who did the holocaust" is their primary attribute when we are saying someone is "a nazi", like nazis did other things too but that is the specific connotation of calling someone nazi, being extra racist. Is that the same in russia? What guy are the imagining when they think of "a nazi"? If they say ukraine is full of nazis are they mostly saying it's super super racist, or is there some other specific thing they are trying to say? It feels like russia had a different sort of history with nazis than the US did, the whole nazi thing is clearly just a boogieman they are using, but are they being super random or does "a nazi" conjure up a different image in a russian memory than in the US? Perpetual excuse. Around a decade ago a man I came to know made a documentary investigating after a friend was killed by Russian "Neo Nazis", eventually infiltrating the group. It's kind of hardcore and very cinematic and very weird. Played numerous big festivals. Long story short and kind of unspoken in the film is that Putin basically developed and funded Neo Nazi groups themselves that he kept tabs on so he could make them a problem before an election that he would then crush to make himself look heroic. trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFBnCghReIY in full on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HQgfRkINnU
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:02 |
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GABA ghoul posted:Lots of these people genuinely didn't seem to realize they were in Ukraine and were just following the truck in front of them at night. Putin was absolutely sure. This wasn't a war, this was meant to be a color revolution as a wave of popular support ousted an unpopular pro-western government. The soldiers would show up, maintain order and reinforce the new government, and not need major reserves of fuel or supplies because they wouldn't be doing much outside of photo ops.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:02 |
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TulliusCicero posted:
It’s how history is. No one expected Russia to be the nation that went communist(most expected Germany because industry/labor) etc but it happened. I am sure historians will be picking this apart for decades if not longer.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:03 |
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cant cook creole bream posted:Sorry, but you're portraying those soldiers as more naive than it is reasonable. They crossed the border with countless tanks and other hardware. The only way they could have thought they were still peacefully doing their own thing within Russia, when some wild Ukranians started to shoot at them is if they accepted the propaganda that the Eastern Ukraine already declared to be part of it. https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1498668774957924356?s=20&t=A42bBJcoAJG4vEIBLwRhmQ
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:03 |
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CommieGIR posted:You can stop with the hot takes now, thanks. So we’re clear, what is the hot take? Is the hot take that breaking law of armed conflict is fine, or is the hot take that you should not break the law of armed conflict? Not trying to snark, trying to figure out which topic is now off limits to avoid probations etc ITT.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:03 |
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MasterSitsu posted:Perpetual excuse. Around a decade ago a man I came to know made a documentary investigating after a friend was killed by Russian "Neo Nazis", eventually infiltrating the group. It's kind of hardcore and very cinematic and very weird. Played numerous big festivals. Long story short and kind of unspoken in the film is that Putin basically developed and funded Neo Nazi groups themselves that he kept tabs on so he could make them a problem before an election that he would then crush to make himself look heroic. He did that with Chechen groups too. It’s kinda of his hobby.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:04 |
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fatherboxx posted:They almost certainly lie - it sounds like a legend they were told to say if they are caught. Yeah, i'm not sure i really believe the stuff being said.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:04 |
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KitConstantine posted:Also pretty clear those POW videos going out are "working", making Russian mothers actually question state TV. Warning: this is pretty heartbreaking to watch. Moms are moms no matter where they live Isn't it a war crime for Radio Free Europe to run this? It's not the same as when some civilian outlet does it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:04 |
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GABA ghoul posted:Lots of these people genuinely didn't seem to realize they were in Ukraine and were just following the truck in front of them at night. It turns out a platoon of soldiers just got lost during the sabre rattling exercise, so they invaded on accident. When Putin heard that he refused to end them back, because in his eyes that would be backing down, or admitting mistakes, so he suddenly ordered all the others join them. That seems more likely then the reality those soldiers are peddling.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:05 |
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In more unsurprising news, looks like Lukashenko was lying about Belarus not being militarily involved in Ukraine https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1498673348183744518?t=tXhSdtAv6KWpCp92HTJ07w&s=19 Edit: translation from the replies, though I'd love someone from here to corroborate https://twitter.com/Boy2021Master/status/1498675536314437633?t=oNRJcYdK-xuHYhH9ikpCTA&s=19 Doesn't look like support for Russia is universal in Belarus though https://twitter.com/franakviacorka/status/1498674124520103943?t=3rYxo3r9UJQsa6IQon25oQ&s=19
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:06 |
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I think Putin was absolutely certain this would be easy. We joke about his increasing levels of isolation but it really seems as if since covid he's created an environment for himself where he only hears what he wants to hear. Like the talk about how the Ukrainian armed forces should switch sides because their leaders are drug-addicted neo-Nazis. I don't think he would keep repeating that unless he personally believed it was true, as absurd as it seems. He's always wanted to break Ukraine as an independent country and after what happened in Afghanistan with the Taliban, as well as the Western acceptance (or lack of pushback) against his previous military adventures in Eastern Europe he probably thought it would really be as simple as sending in the tanks and having the population come out and cheer them for liberating them from their democratic overlords. Zelenksy not pulling a Ghani and running away at the first sign of danger was surely a crushing disappointment and I wish I could have seen Putin's face when he heard that news. As far as the soldiers themselves, it seems that other than Putin, his top generals and kadyrov he told nobody that this would happen, so yeah I'm sure the great majority of the Russian soldiers did not expect to see actual combat. To say they didn't know they were driving into Ukraine after being given the orders to move is a little silly though. Mozi fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Mar 1, 2022 |
# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:06 |
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Re Nazis: Look at this huge piece of poo poo! Guess what he’s the an ex Russian SF Lt Col who founded a PMC group called Wagner. It’s been used in various conflicts around the world as deniable assets and is currently in Ukraine!
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:06 |
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On which side, and what's your source?
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:08 |
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https://twitter.com/SouthAsiaIndex/status/1498607419387445249 https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1498604876175409154 a lot of notable fighters of fascism in that list
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:08 |
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Dante posted:The geneva conventions don't address weapon use. That's regulated by several different sets of treaties, none of which Russia has signed (for example they're not party to the Convention on Cluster Munitions). Article 35 bans weapons that "cause superfluous injury or unnecessary suffering," as well as means of warfare that "cause widespread, long-term, and severe damage to the natural environment." What are you on about?
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:09 |
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Ethiopia specifically.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:09 |
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KitConstantine posted:In more unsurprising news, looks like Lukashenko was lying about Belarus not being militarily involved in Ukraine What the gently caress are the borders on that map
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:09 |
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freeasinbeer posted:Re Nazis: They already tried to go after Zelensky in the hundreds, and failed. Confirmed by the group itself.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:09 |
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TheRat posted:It's almost so unbelievable it might not even be true. fatherboxx posted:They almost certainly lie - it sounds like a legend they were told to say if they are caught. Fair points.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:10 |
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freeasinbeer posted:Re Nazis: Why did he take a selfie?
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:10 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 03:52 |
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Yeah I mean as far as actual Nazis go the US has a great deal to do to get our own house in order.
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# ? Mar 1, 2022 16:11 |