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I'm a little split, but if I had to choose between looting intact goods from a store today and picking through rubble for charred scraps tomorrow, I'd choose the former. This city is on the front, and there's a fair chance those goods will not have the chance to do anyone any good. e: ughh what a lousy snipe.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:10
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Tomberforce posted:It is pretty remarkable that Ukraine is still contesting the airspace over a week in but really feeding intelligence directly to the Ukrainian military to enable them to hit Russian logistics units effectively is arguably more significant at severely limiting the fighting capability of the Russian army at this stage and carries way fewer escalatory risks. Not just contesting, from what I understand sources at the USDOD were saying that Ukraine has limited air superiority over Ukraine.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:10
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Kaal posted:I think that the debate over an American-led no fly zone sort of misses the reality that NATO is dumping MANPADS into the country as fast as Ukraine can receive them. This is where my (probably flawed) argument comes in of "does it really matter who fires the weapons provided by NATO?" I know that there's a bunch of precedent for doing the weapons giving and that's why we're comfortable with it, but Putin threatened retaliation if we did that and he didn't do anything - probably because they're overextended as it is and can't do anything about it. Famethrowa posted:Jesus christ why do you want nuclear war so bad Someone asked what it would do and that's the objective answer to what it would do.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:10
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FishBulbia posted:I'm split. these might literally be people trying to survive by taking stuff. IDK. Looting perfume and jewelry? IDK. But obviously looting is to be expected for a city under siege like Mariupol. Not long ago people were looting Air Jordans etc when there wasn't even a war lol
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Mar 5, 2022 01:11
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I could see the world ending from a snap poll
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Mar 5, 2022 01:11
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Famethrowa posted:Jesus christ why do you want nuclear war so bad Yea. This is horrible for Ukraine but I don't want ww3 breaking out and I certainly don't want to be nuked. A no fly zone is not the solution.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:11
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Kaal posted:I think that the debate over an American-led no fly zone sort of misses the reality that NATO is dumping MANPADS into the country as fast as Ukraine can receive them. Those are good against helicopters and slower ground attack aircraft but not so good against fast jets at higher altitudes. It is probably a big part of why there haven't been too many Russian helicopter operations reported though.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:11
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KillHour posted:A no-fly zone is really a "we are enforcing our own air superiority" zone. It would involve wrecking Russia's AA capabilities and free the Ukranian airforce to do whatever they want, basically. Strictly speaking, a NFZ would also mean grounding Ukrainian planes and drones and telling them to shut their AA systems. In any case it's out of question.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:14
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the popes toes posted:Do wars redraw alignments? Guess they do. I feel like this has to be a bluff because KSA has been spending germany in the 1930s GDP% on building up their army and they've been domestically banging the drums for an eventual regional war against Iran and Iran's sphere of influence for a decade now. I find it too hard to believe at this point that even the response to Russia has somehow sobered him up from wanting that war. If KSA keeps spending on its military at the current rate, imo just toss that statement completely out. That said there are some interesting parallels between how a KSA (or american for that matter) invasion of Iran would go and how the Russian invasion of Ukraine is going. Eg attacking by forcing several axes of advance from different regions in unfriendly terrain by an extremely motivated, decently equipped enemy with significant personnel reserves and significant recent combat experience where, at most, just a couple percent might be sympathetic, and then additionally all the supply line and other logistical nightmares that we're currently watching wreck havoc on the Russian advance. Also lowkey, it hasn't been very heavily reported on or I think fully noted by the press, but KSA is very much out of america's good graces and MBS seems to be more aware that that is a risky place to be. all in all it's a weird as hell development. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Mar 5, 2022 |
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Mar 5, 2022 01:16
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I feel like this has to be a bluff because KSA has been spending germany in the 1930s GDP% on building up their army and they've been domestically banging the drums for an eventual regional war against Iran and Iran's sphere of influence. I find it too hard to believe at this point that even the response to Russia has somehow sobered him up from wanting that war. If KSA keeps spending on its military at the current rate, imo just toss that statement completely out. Saudi military ambitions are busy dying in Yemen, where the combination of failson officers and Sudanese mercenaries is more important than their expensive equipment.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:18
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Wanna reiterate that Nato is 30 countries in a defensive pact that has spent half a century trying to deter escalation, they are not going to throw it all out the window because a right-wing polling company in one country put up a poll that demonstrates that most people don't know what things mean. Nato isn't going to cave on poo poo because of public opinion, that is not its purpose, it can be as unpopular as it needs to be, and they will not compromise just to make one member country's political party more electable in 7-31 months. Please relax about NFZs or any kind of interference.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:20
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Morrow posted:Saudi military ambitions are busy dying in Yemen, where the combination of failson officers and Sudanese mercenaries is more important than their expensive equipment. yes, they're inexplicably managing to militarily lose a genocide. still that has had relatively little impact so far on MBS' ambitions and his perspective has been that Yemen is a crucible where his army can gain actual experience. At least until they started getting bullied back to (and over the border). The outcome of yemen has had bizarrely little impact, if anything, on MBS' ambitions.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:20
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A devastating nuclear apocalypse is just the antidote this world needs Take us back to the stone age and start over again, this time with way less plastic. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 5, 2022 01:20
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KillHour posted:This is where my (probably flawed) argument comes in of "does it really matter who fires the weapons provided by NATO?" I know that there's a bunch of precedent for doing the weapons giving It's a super weird and illogical distinction isn't it, between handing over poo poo tons of javelins and manpads and what else, and say, rolling BMP's or tanks over the border and saying help yourself. I understand the distinction, and why it's an important distinction, but it's still like a stupid rule nations just pulled out of their butts. Yes, you can have this. No, you can't have that.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:20
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I mean...
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Mar 5, 2022 01:22
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ZombieLenin posted:Not just contesting, from what I understand sources at the USDOD were saying that Ukraine has limited air superiority over Ukraine. 😂 Russia is/was a paper tiger. I wonder if anyone knew. Edit: I’m still on the the RF ground forces will eventually ground this out, but they might have to call up the reserves jfc freeasinbeer fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Mar 5, 2022 |
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Mar 5, 2022 01:22
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That Italian Guy posted:I mean... Back in 2007 when I was thinking of an edgy internet name, I know THIS would be my moment! It all makes sense now! Another goon made me this avatar and I love it to pieces. It perfectly encapsulates what I think about my alarm clock in the morning. 
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Mar 5, 2022 01:24
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gay picnic defence posted:Those are good against helicopters and slower ground attack aircraft but not so good against fast jets at higher altitudes. It is probably a big part of why there haven't been too many Russian helicopter operations reported though. That's certainly true, but it's also true that Russian fighter jets aren't really a primary threat at this point. Their air to ground attacks have been fairly unimpressive, particularly now that much of their PGM inventory appears to be depleted. If Ukraine can control the skies well enough to clear Russian helicopters and attack aircraft, they'll have achieved most of what a NATO NFZ would have sought to achieve. Ukraine does have vehicular SHORAD and jets of their own to contest Russian air power if need be, and they are capturing more of it.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:24
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:A devastating nuclear apocalypse is just the antidote this world needs  The plastic isn't going anywhere. It's just getting more microscopic. There's no starting over.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:26
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god bless kherson llama https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1499827841365590016
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Mar 5, 2022 01:26
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Morrow posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/WarintheFuture/status/1499891142107693057 I don't get it either. My speculation is that Putin still believes the Ukrainians are weak and will surrender once he starts bombing cities and I wonder what will change if that doesn't work out.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:26
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I feel like this has to be a bluff because KSA has been spending germany in the 1930s GDP% on building up their army and they've been domestically banging the drums for an eventual regional war against Iran and Iran's sphere of influence for a decade now. I find it too hard to believe at this point that even the response to Russia has somehow sobered him up from wanting that war. If KSA keeps spending on its military at the current rate, imo just toss that statement completely out. Maybe he's been harboring doubts about what quality he was getting for his money and has now realized that if Putin's military sucks that bad, his is worse. And he's seen that Europe and the US are actually willing to make sacrifices to implement sanctions, plus he sees the environmental writing on the wall, plus he's probably still hurting from losing his Hollywood / Silicon Valley friends over Kashoggi so he knows he is not untouchable. If he sees his way out of this as taking on the role as a peacemaker, well then blessed be he.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:29
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The calculus was that Ukrainians wanted to be liberated and there was a new government waiting in the wings and now it’s just doubling down and hoping for a way to get a favorable treaty.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:30
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CMYK BLYAT! posted:god bless kherson llama So that's the new name for the Moscow Mule right
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Mar 5, 2022 01:32
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CMYK BLYAT! posted:god bless kherson llama If someone wants to put together a kids book talking about living through scary times in Ukraine, this is their viewpoint.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:32
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the popes toes posted:It's passing strange that of all the people who unironically said that it's a moral imperative to punch a nazi, many of the same now say, when faced with a real nazi, we shouldn't. Because they fear getting hurt. Or something. Punching a nazi is one thing. Causing global thermonuclear exchanges is another thing entirely. If it wasn't against thread rules to go into Clancy-chat I would do an effort post about MAD and NATO/Russian nuclear doctrine, as this is, for once, my area of expertise finally becoming relevant. Alas, you will have to suffice with me saying "Any confrontation between NATO and Russia will inevitably, by design, lead to a strategic nuclear exchange because that is explicitly what the US and Russian nuclear forces are designed around."
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Mar 5, 2022 01:32
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Lots of people keep asking about no fly zone, which in itself is of course fine, but I think the reason why it seems like such an attractive solution is language. "Declare a no fly zone". Ah, you simply declare it, maybe through the FAA, and enforce it with radar and lawyers. However, if you do find/replace "implement no fly zone" with "aggressively attack all Russian aircraft and air defense systems in the area", it becomes easier to understand. It was easier to confuse it with a TFR declared by the FAA when it was done over Iraq.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:33
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I wonder if Trump, Brexit and Putin's folly in Ukraine are going to be some kind of reality check/pressure release in the grand scheme of things instead of being herald of worse things to come. Each of these is horrible, but their intrinsic failures may have prevented something even worse from materializing - like the immediate Brexit aftermath stealing the wind from a lot of anti-EU nationalist parties in the rest of Europe or everyone realizing how bad of an idea it is to start a war with a semi-peer western country. Guess one could argue that Trump has also somehow split the GOP, but it doesn't seem so clear cut.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:34
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:The calculus was that Ukrainians wanted to be liberated and there was a new government waiting in the wings and now it’s just doubling down and hoping for a way to get a favorable treaty. And they miscalculated this guy https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1499429621955235845
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Mar 5, 2022 01:34
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I think we've fully settled that the No Fly Zone is not good and won't happen, please move on 
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Mar 5, 2022 01:34
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Harold Fjord posted:
We can nuke the plastic. Checkmate.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:35
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Morrow posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/WarintheFuture/status/1499891142107693057 if the ground off the roads is bogging down the russians, it'd do the same to the ukranians. they don't need to invest every foot around the city like a medieval siege, they just need to control every major highway and road, and that includes positioning guns in spots that can reliably hit the roads when spotters request fire. plenty of major cities in syria were sieged without some kind of giant ring around the city
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Mar 5, 2022 01:36
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the popes toes posted:And they miscalculated this guy I feel like this statement would really piss off a famous Russian author but I'm not sure which one.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:37
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DaysBefore posted:So that's the new name for the Moscow Mule right Ukrainian Llama Recipe: 1 tablespoon fresh lemon juice 2 tablespoons Limoncello 3 ounces Ukrainian vodka Ice cubes One 12-ounce bottle ginger beer Lemon (Sun)flowers, for garnish Kaal fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Mar 5, 2022 |
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Mar 5, 2022 01:37
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Woah...this guy doesn't link to the video, but some of the replies do. It is by far the most graphic I've seen so far. So only check it out if you have a strong stomach. Really.  Don't look if you can't handle it. https://mobile.twitter.com/TomRtweets/status/1499777470064693253 Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Mar 5, 2022 |
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Mar 5, 2022 01:37
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CommieGIR posted:I think we've fully settled that the No Fly Zone is not good and won't happen, please move on Down with zippers
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Mar 5, 2022 01:37
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Charlotte Hornets posted:Looting perfume and jewelry? IDK. Anything you can trade for food is worth looting. There's a war going on there, you know.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:38
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DaysBefore posted:So that's the new name for the Moscow Mule right Oh hell yes. Although that account is pro Putin.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:38
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CommieGIR posted:I think we've fully settled that the No Fly Zone is not good and won't happen, please move on No specific to the NFZ but the reason it polls so high, other than the ease of the Iraq NFZ (did Serbia have one?) is that it's tangible action. Clearly, the American government is doing something but talking about it would compromise whatever we're doing. Add to that the average persons understanding of international politics and policy is little to none and that is why you are getting polling so high for a NFZ. Essentially, we want to feel like we are doing something and it doesn't FEEL like we are.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:39
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Charlz Guybon posted:Woah...this guy doesn't link to the video, but some of the replies do. It is by far the most graphic I've seen so far. So only check it out if you have a strong stomach. Twitters constant tightening of what npn-members can view is going to kill the platform
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