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KitConstantine posted:"Especially of interest to children because they look like toys" sorry, who invented these? asking for a friend who definitely isn't going to hunt that person down and flay them alive.
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Mar 9, 2022 05:45
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KitConstantine posted:The Red Cross confirmed that the corridors out of Mariupol were mined. This is horrific holy poo poo. "intended to maim... because it slows people down more" has to be a war crime in and of itself, right? Deviant posted:sorry, who invented these? asking for a friend who definitely isn't going to hunt that person down and flay them alive. Should I let them know to look out for an unexpected Uber?
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Mar 9, 2022 05:46
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it would arguably benefit the US more if Russia gets trapped in a costly and bloody quagmire that last years, whilst the Europeans would prefer a quicker and more definite settlement
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Mar 9, 2022 05:47
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KillHour posted:This is horrific holy poo poo. "intended to maim... because it slows people down more" has to be a war crime in and of itself, right? i mean, i'm not a violent person generally, but I think if I had this person in shouting distance I'd just stab and stab and stab and stab until there was nothing left to bury. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 9, 2022 05:47
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Deteriorata posted:Another dawn is breaking in Kyiv, and it's still Ukrainian. No finer thing
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Mar 9, 2022 05:48
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Deadbeat Dad posted:More so than the sanctions argument, what are off-ramps that are palatable for both Ukraine/Russia? I would like to see more countries pushing for peace. Even though people get on China for not condemning Russia and painting it way more rosy than it is, they most definitely don't want things to escalate much further. Even if Putin isn't a rational actor, my hopes are that wide-spread war fervor and jingoism that's been rampant from NATO countries gets drowned out and people get weary of this war quickly and realize that at some point cheering for the good guy who doesn't want to see their country destroyed just means more civilian/military death that could ve been avoided. Zelensky has made noise about not joining NATO and some flexibility regarding DNR/LNR and Crimea. However, Putin has still stuck to his demands for Ukrainian demilitarization (after showing exactly why Ukraine needs a military) and denazification (i.e., regime change). I think the rest of the world sees the unhappy compromise for everyone to make, but Putin needs to budge in a way he hasn't shown he's willing to do so yet. Until then, the war has to become costly for him. It really loving sucks.
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Mar 9, 2022 05:49
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Note that Ukraine is a signatory to Ottawa convention against anti-personnel mines, so all of its inventory of such is supposed to have been destroyed long ago. Russia is not part of that treaty (nor is US). Edit: I would be careful of Newsweek as a source, though. Remember that it's a carcass of the publication taken over by some dubious people.
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Mar 9, 2022 05:49
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Deadbeat Dad posted:More so than the sanctions argument, what are off-ramps that are palatable for both Ukraine/Russia? I would like to see more countries pushing for peace. Even though people get on China for not condemning Russia and painting it way more rosy than it is, they most definitely don't want things to escalate much further. Even if Putin isn't a rational actor, my hopes are that wide-spread war fervor and jingoism that's been rampant from NATO countries gets drowned out and people get weary of this war quickly and realize that at some point cheering for the good guy who doesn't want to see their country destroyed just means more civilian/military death that could ve been avoided. I don't understand how people think there is still some sort of off ramp. Outside of a deposed Putin how could you ever trust an agreement with Russia after this?
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Mar 9, 2022 05:50
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Karl Barks posted:Yeah, the mountains of dead Vietnamese, Afgans, Iraqis, Iranians, etc was not good. I'd like to avoid that. Good point, the US should never have invaded Ukraine...??
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Mar 9, 2022 05:51
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pkay posted:I don't understand how people think there is still some sort of off ramp. Outside of a deposed Putin how could you ever trust an agreement with Russia after this?
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Mar 9, 2022 05:52
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pkay posted:I don't understand how people think there is still some sort of off ramp. Outside of a deposed Putin how could you ever trust an agreement with Russia after this? Ukraine can't fight forever and they can't invade and capture the whole of Russia. This has to end somehow and allow space for Ukraine to repair itself and try to heal. I don't see regime change happening, so I think Ukraine has to trust itself to be able to repel intrusions and push back against violations in the future and cultivate relations with other nations to enable that to happen.
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Mar 9, 2022 05:53
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Deadbeat Dad posted:It's easy for me to say since it's not my country and I realize that, and I understand "Get the hell out of my country and leave me alone" should be option number one, but it's not feasible. Many people are going to die regardless of whether Ukraine resists op. Putin has said some downright genocidal stuff recently. Russia's previous occupations of foreign territories haven't exactly been pleasant. Your argument kind of reminds me of old episodes of COPS where the police are arresting somebody and yelling STOP RESISTING while they beat the poo poo out of them. I hope this analogy solves your moral dilemma
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Mar 9, 2022 05:53
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KitConstantine posted:The Red Cross confirmed that the corridors out of Mariupol were mined. Everything about this is evil.
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Mar 9, 2022 05:53
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pkay posted:I don't understand how people think there is still some sort of off ramp. Outside of a deposed Putin how could you ever trust an agreement with Russia after this? There is always an off-ramp even if it's one that literally only Russia thinks is a good one. The difference is that what's "good" for Russia may be more palatable to others right now too rather than what they started off with.
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Mar 9, 2022 05:54
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pkay posted:I don't understand how people think there is still some sort of off ramp. Outside of a deposed Putin how could you ever trust an agreement with Russia after this? How can any country be trusted with any agreement? All international agreements are based purely on mutual self-interest or they are nothing more than polite lies meant to buy time. That is the entire goal of the sanctions - to make whatever security concerns he has of secondary importance relative to the economic destruction of his country.
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Mar 9, 2022 05:55
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Deviant posted:sorry, who invented these? asking for a friend who definitely isn't going to hunt that person down and flay them alive. They're pretty old, IIRC the Soviet Union used them frequently in Afghanistan.
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Mar 9, 2022 05:57
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MikeC posted:How can any country be trusted with any agreement? All international agreements are based purely on mutual self-interest or they are nothing more than polite lies meant to buy time. That is the entire goal of the sanctions - to make whatever security concerns he has of secondary importance relative to the economic destruction of his country. Literally "PERHAPS THE SAME COULD BE SAID OF ALL RELIGIONS???", this is some profoundly weak nothingness.
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Mar 9, 2022 05:57
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Not good https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1501381065851691016
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Mar 9, 2022 05:58
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Nessus posted:Putin can go home and declare victory and I imagine he would at least be able to sell oil and gas to Europe without problems, although he may have now created a long-term market problem. Other sanctions might get officially relaxed though I imagine he'll have a loving job of getting any foreign investment again. And he'd even get what seemed to be his plausible war goals! I think that ship has sailed. There is no going back...even if sanctions were erased today, there are long term repercussions.
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Mar 9, 2022 05:58
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Acebuckeye13 posted:They're pretty old, IIRC the Soviet Union used them frequently in Afghanistan. Not that I was going to actually do anything, but i'm infuriated that whoever invented these war crimes got away with death as the worst thing that ever happened to them.
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Mar 9, 2022 05:58
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ImpAtom posted:I feel like if your criticism of something that could help people is "it isn't aesthetically pleasing enough" it probably can be ignored. Not in practice, it turns out.
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Mar 9, 2022 05:59
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pkay posted:I think that ship has sailed. There is no going back...even if sanctions were erased today, there are long term repercussions. The most crippling sanctions are those imposed at central bank reserves, once those are unfrozen, Russian economy gets a lifeline.
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Mar 9, 2022 06:03
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This is fine. Everything is fine.
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Mar 9, 2022 06:03
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Acebuckeye13 posted:They're pretty old, IIRC the Soviet Union used them frequently in Afghanistan. The US had something very similar to them called "The Dragontooth" and used it Vietnam War, mostly in Laos. Except the US stopped making and using them in 1970. Maybe someone realized they were loving evil? Anyway, I'm going to bed before I manage to top the existance of "toetapper" mines. Which just edges out all the horrible anti-trans laws beong considered as "most vile thing I have read today".
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Mar 9, 2022 06:07
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Deviant posted:Not that I was going to actually do anything, but i'm infuriated that whoever invented these war crimes got away with death as the worst thing that ever happened to them. TBF, the "butterfly mines" are based off a design the United States used in Vietnam for a short time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-43_Dragontooth
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Mar 9, 2022 06:09
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the popes toes posted:The steady propaganda stream of imagery, vids, statements, art - all of it, is remarkable. And contrasted with "Ukrainians are shelling themselves" by the Russian establishment makes them seem amateurish and ham-handed in comparison. At least you could depend on the Soviets for great propaganda art. That gun on the woman's back is sooo wrong. 
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Mar 9, 2022 06:10
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Twincityhacker posted:The US had something very similar to them called "The Dragontooth" and used it Vietnam War, mostly in Laos. Except the US stopped making and using them in 1970. They were also used by Russia against the Chechens, for a more recent example. And were apparently dropped on Kharkiv in the early days of this war. Link:https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/02/26/7326201/
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Mar 9, 2022 06:11
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Deviant posted:Not that I was going to actually do anything, but i'm infuriated that whoever invented these war crimes got away with death as the worst thing that ever happened to them. It's interesting watching someone realize in realtime that war, and the tools created for it, is actually pretty loving horrific. Just Another Lurker posted:That gun on the woman's back is sooo wrong. It symbolizes Putins limb dick.
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Mar 9, 2022 06:12
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fatherboxx posted:The most crippling sanctions are those imposed at central bank reserves, once those are unfrozen, Russian economy gets a lifeline. That will be something of a lifeline, but at this point the kremlin has offered permanent damage to the next 20 years of its own economy even just with its reactionary countermoves. russia won't be walking back the effects of the prohibitionary actions it took against the very idea that you'd ever want to invest money in the russian state, or have any sort of affiliation or partnerships or operations there, and it gets worse every day of them trying to manage these with currency lockdowns or literally even just still keeping their stock market frozen. Whether this is because of putin himself lashing out and having NO sense whatsoever about how to limit the damage that his own government can inflict on the country at this point, or his economic advisors being a bunch of administratively incompetent lackeys left over after three decades of klepto-dictatorial competency atrophy, or both? it's going to be insane to watch.
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Mar 9, 2022 06:14
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Varinn posted:I dont think its worth sanctioning Israels oil and natural gas exports, no But do you think the same banking and financial trade sanctions against Israel would be worth it? Which are the ones with real teeth in the economic war against Russia and will cause the most harm to general populace I'd guess they'd also presumably devastate Israel's ability to maintain an effective armed forces and its occupations
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Mar 9, 2022 06:15
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Young Freud posted:TBF, the "butterfly mines" are based off a design the United States used in Vietnam for a short time. I'm not sure if they're based on them or just use the same reasoning. It's no coincidence they both look like whirlybird seeds. Twincityhacker posted:The US had something very similar to them called "The Dragontooth" and used it Vietnam War, mostly in Laos. Except the US stopped making and using them in 1970. Toepopper, for those googling along at home. They were small anti personnel mines that tended to maim instead of kill, same as the dragonsteeth. They were "minimum metal" mines, and proved to be such a pain in the rear end to clear if you decided you needed that patch of land after all that the US started gluing big steel washers inside the body so metal detectors could find them. Oh and the US still has a stock of 1.5 million of the things, in case the North Koreans decide to invade the South.
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Mar 9, 2022 06:16
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Putin's ambitions are imperial. He wants Ukraine. It has no right to exist, and in fact, does not exist as a country but only a mistake that he is determined to correct. He will not leave. The only realistic off ramp is to remove his forces from Ukraine. Ukraine can not do that alone. The west has a moral obligation to not abandon them and a political obligation to the ideals of Europe to assist. Some sort of agreement where Ze does "not contest" Crimea or Donbas. and coupled with an agreement to not join NATO might be a minimal for both sides but I don't believe Putin is negotiating in good faith for anything but removal of Ze with a puppet government in his place. Besides wanting Ukraine for imperial reasons, and as a cultural buffer against western influence, he may now believe that compelling a subjugated Ukraine to its knees is the only thing that can salvage his reputational loss and prevent his empire from further secessions. If he actually believes this, I have to admit his possible escalations to prevent this make me uncomfortable.
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Mar 9, 2022 06:18
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Collateral posted:Got to love the background here: I love the idea that someone watched this vid and wondered what historic general is on the wall of this guy's office, and the answer is one (Mirror universe?) Jean Luc Picard of the late 2300's. More seriously, losing contact with the systems at Chernobyl is messed up, but I don't think Russia will be doing anything horrible with the plant. Irradiating the land they're trying to conquer wouldn't make any sense. That is of course, they won't do anything intentionally, no one should trust their competence since this all started.
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Mar 9, 2022 06:21
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Blue Footed Booby posted:I'm not sure if they're based on them or just use the same reasoning. It's no coincidence they both look like whirlybird seeds. Maiming someone in the field is just a slower version of killing them, tbh. You could run them over with a truck or better a tracked vehicle to set them off with very little damage to the vehicle.
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Mar 9, 2022 06:23
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Trump posted:It's interesting watching someone realize in realtime that war, and the tools created for it, is actually pretty loving horrific. It seems a lot of the time people think there's nice kinds of bombs to be torn apart by.
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Mar 9, 2022 06:28
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Twincityhacker posted:The US had something very similar to them called "The Dragontooth" and used it Vietnam War, mostly in Laos. Except the US stopped making and using them in 1970. Don't worry, they still use cluster bombs with a high 'dud' rate on the detonators meaning they scatter brightly-coloured bomblets with unstable fuses over large sections of countryside.
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Mar 9, 2022 06:28
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fez_machine posted:But do you think the same banking and financial trade sanctions against Israel would be worth it? For what it is worth, Israel made a very large natural gas strike in the 2010s. Only a fraction of the fields they have access to have been exploited: while they currently are not a major gas exporter, they stand to sell tens of billions of dollars of LNG in the near future. Sanctioning Israel's gas would impact their ability to make war, as well as cause problems in various domestic programs to be funded by their burgeoning sovereign wealth fund. I guess that is off limits, though. Yudo fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Mar 9, 2022 |
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Mar 9, 2022 06:31
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Orthanc6 posted:I love the idea that someone watched this vid and wondered what historic general is on the wall of this guy's office, and the answer is one (Mirror universe?) Jean Luc Picard of the late 2300's. Wind would also blow it straight into Russia last I checked.
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Mar 9, 2022 06:35
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Crespolini posted:It seems a lot of the time people think there's nice kinds of bombs to be torn apart by. This is kind of misleading when the issue around mines isn't how they kill, but who they kill. Children don't sign up to die.
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Mar 9, 2022 06:35
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KillHour posted:This is kind of misleading when the issue around mines isn't how they kill, but who they kill. Children don't sign up to die. Bombs, bullets, grenades, missiles etc. kills children as well.
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Mar 9, 2022 06:36
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