gay picnic defence posted:

I'm sure those people and the dead pregnant lady are glad a couple of nazis died so their sacrifice was not in vain.

Neurolimal posted:

Has Russia run out of fuel yet? I heard that would be happening negative one week ago. Is that convoy still 'stuck', or have they dispersed to forward positions?

For what it's worth, the majority of leftists i've seen 'owning the libs' don't think it's good that Russia invaded. They aren't pro-Russia, there's no delusion that they are a communist nor leftward country. They do, however, believe that this war is not winnable in any way for Ukraine, and the longer they wait to negotiate a surrender, the worse their bargaining position becomes. You can post a cool drone video in response but every map-even the ones that near-exclusively use Ukrainian MoD data like ISW and MilitaryLand-show that Russia is steadily advancing. This is less "Fight for what's right using effective resistance" and more "driving your used van into the White House gates to save Yemen". Snake Island was fake, Ghost of Kyiv was fake, that second-in command to Kadyrov alleged killed has apparently shown up again, Ukraine has a history of loudly fudging their casualties. It's extremely obvious that what we're seeing on social media, from Ukraine's MoD, from Bellingcat, does not match up with the reality on the ground.

Mr. Apollo posted:

I had to unfollow a bunch of “leftists” because they would post stuff like “Don’t👏collaborate👏with👏nazis👏” when news like this would be posted.

tehinternet posted:

So the leftist take on an imperialist nation invading your county is to not fight because civilians will die

So they should surrender to the imperialist autocrat who regularly abuses/disappears his people

I mean I can understand avoiding war at all costs but Ukraine wasn’t really given a choice in the matter and Russia is not a great place to be associated with compared to the EU.

E: honestly, the feeling I get from most internet leftists (and I’d call myself a leftist) is that they just want to see Europe suffer because of awful poo poo they’ve done in the past. Never mind that Europe is morally in the right here.

tehinternet posted:

Yeah, if I’m in an existential struggle, I’m working with whoever the gently caress is shooting at my enemy (provided they’re not doing war crimes on the people we’re protecting). We can shoot each other when we’re sure there’s a tomorrow for the country as a whole.

bad_fmr posted:

I really don't understand this constant defeatism from the (tankist) left. Either straight up Puting stanning or at the very least portraying the Ukrainian struggle as harmul or meaningless. Is the fight and struggle against tyranny and oppression not supposed to be the good and right thing to do? Are they really so brokebrained that absolutely anything that the US supports must be opposed, even if it means supporting Putin or making GBS threads on Ukrainian independence?

Panzeh posted:

Ah, I see someone who's against fighting people's wars against imperialist invaders with greater numbers, a true leftist position.

((Posting from 1953)) "Giap, just give up, you can't smash the Tassigny Line, gun for a position in the French colonial administration, maybe you can even get the Viet Minh a seat in the French parliament! Every day you wait, your position gets worse!"

bad_fmr posted:

I really don't understand this constant defeatism from the (tankist) left. Either straight up Puting stanning or at the very least portraying the Ukrainian struggle as harmul or meaningless. Is the fight and struggle against tyranny and oppression not supposed to be the good and right thing to do? Are they really so brokebrained that absolutely anything that the US supports must be opposed, even if it means supporting Putin or making GBS threads on Ukrainian independence?

tehinternet posted:

So the leftist take on an imperialist nation invading your county is to not fight because civilians will die

So they should surrender to the imperialist autocrat who regularly abuses/disappears his people

I mean I can understand avoiding war at all costs but Ukraine wasn’t really given a choice in the matter and Russia is not a great place to be associated with compared to the EU.

E: honestly, the feeling I get from most internet leftists (and I’d call myself a leftist) is that they just want to see Europe suffer because of awful poo poo they’ve done in the past. Never mind that Europe is morally in the right here.

tehinternet posted:

Yeah, if I’m in an existential struggle, I’m working with whoever the gently caress is shooting at my enemy (provided they’re not doing war crimes on the people we’re protecting). We can shoot each other when we’re sure there’s a tomorrow for the country as a whole.

Brown Moses posted:

The Russian Embassy to the Netherlands decided this morning it would be a good time to share an interview where its ambassador uses internet comments as evidence that the pregnant woman who died overnight after being crush in the Mariupol maternity hospital bombing was a crisis actor
https://twitter.com/rusembassynl/status/1503313926544633860
The grossness begins about 2:40.

Neurolimal posted:

TulliusCicero posted:

Real question: if Tankies' homes own were invaded by Putin would they just accept peace and watch ther local government be tortured and their freedoms ripped to shreds?

TulliusCicero posted:

Real question: if Tankies' homes own were invaded by Putin would they just accept peace and watch ther local government be tortured and their freedoms ripped to shreds?

TulliusCicero posted:

Real question: if Tankies' homes own were invaded by Putin would they just accept peace and watch ther local government be tortured and their freedoms ripped to shreds?

TulliusCicero posted:

Real question: if Tankies' homes own were invaded by Putin would they just accept peace and watch ther local government be tortured and their freedoms ripped to shreds?

Also I really don't get who those posts are for: are they to convince the thread of randos to lose hope so we convince Zelinskyy to surrender? Not sure how that works?

Tomn posted:

That ambassador comes off as incredibly defeated. He knows drat well that the interview is going to be a public execution and there’s nothing he can do about it but he has to go through the farce anyways to convince Putin he’s doing his job and repeating the worthless state line.

You talk about Russian propaganda being designed for internal consumption - I feel like this was meant for internal consumption as well, but for Putin instead of the public.

fuctifino posted:

I asked a pro-Russia Tankie this question just the other day, and they admitted that they would most likely hide in a basement and then cooperate with whoever was invading.

Alchenar posted:

Most people would do this and that's fine. Actual willingness to participate in armed struggle is pretty rare even in existential conflicts.

dr_rat posted:

China's not going to prop them up to its determent, but I can definitely see china giving support if Russia goes into an economic collapse. The Chinese governments very good at giving various types of support to countries and having everything end up very much in it's favour.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Also anyone with any kind of activist history is probably going to end up shot regardless if Putin takes over. He doesn't want ideologues in power he wants other chekist/ mafia types like himself. Being a pro putin tankie in Ukraine is just giving both sides a reason to shoot you, either sooner or later.

Rinkles posted:

the pregnant lady on the stretcher died, as did her child.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-u...w&utm_medium=AP

SourKraut posted:

I think it's easier if you just assume that goons who wander in and start doing victim blaming, or blaming NATO, whatever else, are at best, probably slightly sympathetic to Russia due to various reasons, and at worst are simply trying to stir up poo poo and piss people in the thread off.

There's also a contingent who seriously think that dunking on Ukraine and the posters in this thread who support Ukraine, is some type of "owning the libs" nonsense, because ultimately life and its events are just one giant game to them, even if they claim otherwise, since in their own deranged way, they're keeping "score".

It's best to engage as if the posts are in good faith, but once it becomes clear that they don't seem to be in good faith, ignore them.

Just Another Lurker posted:

I read her final words... rage doesn't cover it.

Vampire Panties posted:

I believe NLAW is electro-optical with GPS?

BoldFace posted:

There should exist some kind of a device that prevents Elon from posting on Twitter while he's high.

Boris Galerkin posted:

I think you guys all misunderstood me. For one I didn’t realize the twitter person tweeted commentary in subsequent tweets. What I was commenting on was the linked article directly. What I meant was, the person who wrote that article is grossly misinformed about how this war = the fall of US hegemony and this entire idea is just laughable. Therefore, why should anyone pay attention to this take (the articles take, the the twitter person)?

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

I do love that the war has shown who is literally on the payroll with no more argument of "both sides etc etc"

Shageletic posted:

There's alpt of things I find odd here include using the phrase "victim blaming" for geopolitical warfare, "wandering in" to a public forum, and the weird psychoanalysis of strangers because they might have a different view on recent events.

But what I keep on getting back to is why is trying to understand or provide context to the current conflict, which has been brewing since the end of the Cold War, is seen as such an attack when essentially we all are trying to make sense of this from a remove?

quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) — More than two weeks into a war he expected to dominate in two days, Vladimir Putin is projecting anger, frustration at his military’s failures and a willingness to cause even more violence and destruction in Ukraine, in the assessment of U.S. intelligence officials. Officials in recent days have publicly said they’re worried the Russian president will escalate the conflict to try to break Ukraine’s resistance. Russia still holds overwhelming military advantages and can bombard the country for weeks more. And while the rest of the world reacts to horrific images of the war he started, Putin remains insulated from domestic pressure by what CIA Director William Burns called a “propaganda bubble.”

Burns is a former U.S. ambassador to Moscow who has met with Putin many times. He told lawmakers in response to a question about the Russian president’s mental state that he did not believe Putin was crazy. “I think Putin is angry and frustrated right now,” he said. “He’s likely to double down and try to grind down the Ukrainian military with no regard for civilian casualties.” Russia’s recent unsupported claims that the U.S. is helping Ukraine develop chemical or biological weapons suggest that Putin may himself be prepared to deploy those weapons in a “false flag” operation, Burns said.

There’s no apparent path to ending the war. It is nearly inconceivable that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who has won admiration around the world for leading his country’s resistance, would suddenly recognize Russia’s annexation of Crimea or support granting new autonomy to Russian-friendly parts of eastern Ukraine. And even if he captures Kyiv and deposes Zelenskyy, Putin would have to account for an insurgency supported by the West in a country of more than 40 million. “He has no sustainable political end-game in the face of what is going to continue to be fierce resistance from Ukrainians,” Burns said.

Avril Haines, President Joe Biden’s director of national intelligence, said Putin “perceives this as a war he cannot afford to lose. But what he might be willing to accept as a victory may change over time given the significant costs he is incurring.” Intelligence analysts think Putin’s recent raising of Russia’s nuclear alert level was “probably intended to deter the West from providing additional support to Ukraine,” she said. [NOTE: Sabre Rattling like we percieved]

Before the invasion, polling conducted by the Levada Center, Russia’s top independent opinion research firm, found that 60% of respondents consider the U.S. and NATO the “initiators” of conflict in eastern Ukraine. Just 3% answered Russia. The polling was in January and February, and the Levada Center has not published new polling since the war began. [NOTE: It would be bullshit anyways] Outsiders hope ordinary Russians will respond to the sharp decline in their living standards and find honest portrayals of the war through relatives and online, including by using VPN software to bypass Kremlin blocks on social media. Russian state television continues to air false or unsupported allegations about the U.S. and Ukrainian governments and push a narrative that Russia can’t afford to lose the war.

Alchenar posted:

Most people would do this and that's fine. Actual willingness to participate in armed struggle is pretty rare even in existential conflicts.