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Cat Machine posted:Feel like the simplest counterpoint to the “Luffy chosen one??” narrative is that Shanks never planned to give the fruit to Luffy in the first place. He just ate it by pure accident and Shanks kinda just had to think on the fly, epitomised by him losing an arm over the whole mess. Odds are that we’re gonna get a flashback down the line that lays out what this fruit is, why it’s special and what people wanted to achieve with it - I’m gonna guess nobody was plotting to give it to Luffy. he was there almost certainly to give the fruit to ace before luffy went and ate it
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Mar 25, 2022 18:40
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Veskit posted:I'm getting a lot of why didn't the eagles just throw the ring into the volcano vibes in this thread It's not what I was expecting at all.. I can understand why some people are annoyed with the implied child of destiny narrative where the devil fruit avoided the world government for the entire 800 years since Joyboy and then chose Luffy, and I can understand why "it's the power to do anything in a fight, literally only constrained by the user's imagination!" would turn some people off because all of Luffy's best fights so far have been defined by him overcoming adversity / his own shortcomings and wining primarily through tremendous willpower against all odds.. and now it seems (on face value) like he should have infinite power to deal with any situation. Of course in reality I don't really expect that to change.. Oda is going to keep on figuring out ways to stack the odds against Luffy and the victories won't feel any cheaper the rest of the way. I think people just need some time with this new power up to get comfortable with it lol
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Mar 25, 2022 18:45
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Jose posted:he was there almost certainly to give the fruit to ace before luffy went and ate it Yeah, love love love this idea. Could also see them inadvertently changing their mind and leaving it out around Luffy after he did his dream speech. Definitely prefer it to be what ya said tho..
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Mar 25, 2022 18:45
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A question for everyone. Do we think that the entities that Mythical Zoan fruits are based on actually exist or existed in some real way in the One Piece world? Because to me, this is telling me that the Sun God Nika that Whos-Who was describing, was indeed just a legend. But the concept of that legend is what became Luffy's devil druit. We desperately need some Devil Fruit exposition as soon as Wano ends. My idea right now is that devil fruits are the manifestation different concepts (elements, animals, materials, etc) and mythical zoans are manifestations of fantasy into reality.
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Mar 25, 2022 18:50
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mabels big day posted:A question for everyone. Do we think that the entities that Mythical Zoan fruits are based on actually exist or existed in some real way in the One Piece world? Because to me, this is telling me that the Sun God Nika that Whos-Who was describing, was indeed just a legend. But the concept of that legend is what became Luffy's devil druit. I think given the existence of ancient zones (things that actually existed long ago and went extinct like dinosaurs and saber tooth tigers), it would be reasonable to conclude that mythical zones are the dissolution of the mythological powers of entities that never actually existed except through the collective belief of people in the one piece world.
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Mar 25, 2022 18:57
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so buggy's fruit is model: pagliacci right?
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Mar 25, 2022 19:03
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mabels big day posted:A question for everyone. Do we think that the entities that Mythical Zoan fruits are based on actually exist or existed in some real way in the One Piece world? Because to me, this is telling me that the Sun God Nika that Whos-Who was describing, was indeed just a legend. But the concept of that legend is what became Luffy's devil druit. ive said this before here i think, but theres an ability from the ancient kingdom that has the same name as the user: toki. there's absolutely a chance that fruits are named after actual people who had that power.
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Mar 25, 2022 19:17
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Shanks D. Rat
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Mar 25, 2022 19:19
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Starsfan posted:It's not what I was expecting at all.. I can understand why some people are annoyed with the implied child of destiny narrative where the devil fruit avoided the world government for the entire 800 years since Joyboy and then chose Luffy, and I can understand why "it's the power to do anything in a fight, literally only constrained by the user's imagination!" would turn some people off because all of Luffy's best fights so far have been defined by him overcoming adversity / his own shortcomings and wining primarily through tremendous willpower against all odds.. and now it seems (on face value) like he should have infinite power to deal with any situation. it's not like we haven't been exposed to these themes of will and destiny with our main character though and it literally just happened and I have no reason not to trust Oda that it won't work. Also blah blah blah unreliable narrator.
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Mar 25, 2022 19:28
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mabels big day posted:A question for everyone. Do we think that the entities that Mythical Zoan fruits are based on actually exist or existed in some real way in the One Piece world? Because to me, this is telling me that the Sun God Nika that Whos-Who was describing, was indeed just a legend. But the concept of that legend is what became Luffy's devil druit. I took it as the fruit is somehow a literal manifestation of that legendary animal or figure. Nika, Joyboy, was a real person, wasn't he? it may be that his soul is literally passed down through his Devil Fruit
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Mar 25, 2022 19:32
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I absolutely do not care if a protagonist is fated, chosen, inherited, or whatever else. It's about the journey, not the predestination.
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Mar 25, 2022 19:37
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I assume the entities mythical zoans are based on aren't actually real, because if they were, they'd just be called zoans/ancient zoans. That being said, I assume that Joyboy was the previous user of the HHnM:MN, but that the myth of the sun god Nika predates even them.
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Mar 25, 2022 19:41
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So what is the difference between Chopper's fruit and Luffy's if they are both human-human fruits?
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Mar 25, 2022 19:54
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:So what is the difference between Chopper's fruit and Luffy's if they are both human-human fruits? Quoting this directly from the thread OP: alkanphel posted:D: Mr. 4's gun "Lassoo" had the "Inu Inu Fruit, Model Dachshund." CP9's Jabura had the "Inu Inu Fruit, Model Wolf." So the Devil Fruits don't have the same type twice, but they CAN have different models? P.N. Hito Hito Fruit, Model Beautiful Girl;
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Mar 25, 2022 19:57
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:So what is the difference between Chopper's fruit and Luffy's if they are both human-human fruits? chopper has the hito hito no mi model: yeti
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Mar 25, 2022 20:00
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Blockhouse posted:Orochi is literally burning to death while the only person who could help him watches I'm pretty sure the dude is done the nail is going to burn up/come loose and then he'll rise from the rubble as an orochi again to get owned again by momo to save hiyori
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Mar 25, 2022 20:02
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:So what is the difference between Chopper's fruit and Luffy's if they are both human-human fruits? Luffy has model: SUN GOD while Chopper has model: normal guy. I guess before the gods infused their souls into devil fruits they tested the process on an intern first, creating Chopper's fruit.
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Mar 25, 2022 20:12
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rannum posted:the nail is going to burn up/come loose and then he'll rise from the rubble as an orochi again to get owned again by momo to save hiyori yeah literally 0% chance Orochi is dead just now.. it's annoying as hell for Kanjuro's bullshit to still be going on, but we are going to get a much more satisfying / definitive end to Orochi than "oh he's been lit in on fire and is screaming, now back to Luffy's fight - guess Orochi is dead now?"
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Mar 25, 2022 20:14
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Mar 25, 2022 20:22
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Starsfan posted:yeah literally 0% chance Orochi is dead just now.. it's annoying as hell for Kanjuro's bullshit to still be going on, but we are going to get a much more satisfying / definitive end to Orochi than "oh he's been lit in on fire and is screaming, now back to Luffy's fight - guess Orochi is dead now?" Like this would be a good end to Orochi but it, like all of his deaths, just doesnt have the proper sense of finality. like if Oda wanted me to come away from this thinking he's dead for real this time I want to see his charred corpse
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Mar 25, 2022 20:45
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yeah orochi has only died twice. Kanjuro's up to four.
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Mar 25, 2022 20:50
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I'm not really up on the mythology of Orochi's fruit, but fire is what was used to keep the Hydra from regenerating. So it could at least be the part of his final downfall. Though he's also got that nail in him now.
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Mar 25, 2022 20:56
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Zakutambah posted:
He's not a hydra, he's a Yamata no Orochi, which has the traditional weakness to getting drunk and being beheaded eight times. I didn't fight that same boss five times in Okami to forget!
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Mar 25, 2022 21:00
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Begemot posted:He's not a hydra, he's a Yamata no Orochi, which has the traditional weakness to getting drunk and being beheaded eight times. I didn't fight that same boss five times in Okami to forget! Haha, right. See, I had little idea if he was just like a Japanese version of a Hydra or something more specific; thanks for the correction. Well, he's been beheaded a few times now, how many more as he got left to get to 8?
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Mar 25, 2022 21:02
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This is Orochi’s third death, one from Kaido, one from all the scabbards at once, and now this.
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Mar 25, 2022 21:07
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Zakutambah posted:
Wii Spawn Camper posted:This is Orochi’s third death, one from Kaido, one from all the scabbards at once, and now this. iirc the scabbards beheaded multiple heads at once, so he's actually on his last head?
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Mar 25, 2022 21:08
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Orochi's arms will burn off, freeing him from the nails, but turning him literally into the metaphorical snake he has been, and the moment he feels free, he'll be beheaded by the Ame no Habakiri
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Mar 25, 2022 21:18
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i think they should just let everyone have a chance to kill orochi
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Mar 25, 2022 21:23
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PirateZim posted:i think they should just let everyone have a chance to kill orochi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Cpc8Vw-2A
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Mar 25, 2022 21:37
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Marluxia posted:iirc the scabbards beheaded multiple heads at once, so he's actually on his last head? Yeah, by my count he lost one head to Kaido and another six to the scabbards so he's on his last life.
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Mar 25, 2022 21:38
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PirateZim posted:i think they should just let everyone have a chance to kill orochi Just chain him up in the middle of town and let everyone take a stab at him until he finally stops coming back (and if he literally can’t die then turn it into a new attraction for the public) But as mentioned above assuming he operates the same way as an actual Orochi does then this is it for him
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Mar 25, 2022 21:48
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Larryb posted:Just chain him up in the middle of town and let everyone take a stab at him until he finally stops coming back (and if he literally can’t die then turn it into a new attraction for the public) wouldnt that justify everything he was saying about his clans mistreatment
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Mar 25, 2022 21:50
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skipmyseashells posted:wouldnt that justify everything he was saying about his clans mistreatment Fair point (he’s still an rear end in a top hat regardless though)
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Mar 25, 2022 21:51
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Mar 25, 2022 21:52
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mabels big day posted:A question for everyone. Do we think that the entities that Mythical Zoan fruits are based on actually exist or existed in some real way in the One Piece world? Because to me, this is telling me that the Sun God Nika that Whos-Who was describing, was indeed just a legend. But the concept of that legend is what became Luffy's devil druit. Joyboy is Nika imo.
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Mar 25, 2022 21:56
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hell yeah
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Mar 25, 2022 22:05
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Mar 25, 2022 22:07
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Starsfan posted:It's not what I was expecting at all.. I can understand why some people are annoyed with the implied child of destiny narrative where the devil fruit avoided the world government for the entire 800 years since Joyboy and then chose Luffy, and I can understand why "it's the power to do anything in a fight, literally only constrained by the user's imagination!" would turn some people off because all of Luffy's best fights so far have been defined by him overcoming adversity / his own shortcomings and wining primarily through tremendous willpower against all odds.. and now it seems (on face value) like he should have infinite power to deal with any situation. This is kind of where I'm at, nothing about the described powerset is really a turnoff, it has in story limitations and I mostly don't think oda will mishandle the fights coming forward But the reveal feels a lot like the gorosei turning to the audience and saying "he's the chosen one and can't ever lose now!!!!" In a chapter or three it won't matter but in the moment it feels like the tension's been yanked out of the story
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Mar 25, 2022 22:30
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I don't think there are many people who are against Luffy being a goofy rubber man. If anything they're more down on it less because of Gear 5 itself and more that it turns out Luffy isn't a powerful and strong goofy rubber man because of eating a rubber fruit but that he's a powerful and strong goofy rubber man because he ate the liberation god fruit. No, he's powerful and strong because he worked at it through tireless effort, and he's goofy because he's Luffy. The rubber part was developed and refined over time through Luffy's own ingenuity and experimentation and trial-and-error (see: Gum-Gum Pinwheel at Arlong Park, Gum-Gum Daze trying to counter Enel's Mantra/Observation Haki, etc). Again, think back to where Luffy was when he was with Sabo and Ace right after eating the fruit: the kid could barely even throw a punch without hitting himself in the face. Everything people are complaining about are acting as if these powers were a sudden Deus Ex Machina bestowed upon him by the plot just now as an rear end-pull which is empathically untrue and ignores Luffy's entire developmental arc up until now. This is Luffy realizing the fullest potential of the fruit he had all along which he had to slowly and painstakingly uncover over time. What this chapter did was give new context to everything we've seen for over 20+ years but simply took for granted and is objectively amazing, full-stop. 
Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Mar 25, 2022 |
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Mar 25, 2022 23:14
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I mean the rubber powers didn't come from effort. They came from the liberation freedom god fruit.
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Mar 25, 2022 23:18
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