READ OP! War in Ukraine: a distressed blender making too many margaritas at once

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PC LOAD LETTER: May 23, 2005; WTF?!

Its not a requirement they look exactly like a tank and its likely and drone tank will be smaller than a regular tank but the armor, weapon, engine, etc requirements are likely going to force it to be fairly decent sized at least give it similar looks to a tank.

Already posted this but this sort've what they're likely to end up looking like and weighing. Lots smaller than a regular tank but still fairly big and heavy.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 10:33

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 23:27

DTurtle: Apr 10, 2011

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

How can the tank get cool air to the troops if it's covered in more than one or two molotovs. it's going to get hot in there. Especially if you add more Molotov

And machinery doesn't work well when it gets hotter than it should. You know things boiling over etc. Rubber seals melting. The good stuff.

The Molotov may not destroy the tank but fire hurts things goodly.

Now what would be effective is wine barrels of Molotov materials dropped on the tanks like some roman frontier town or some poo poo

There was a somewhat long and ... heated ... discussion about Molotov cocktails in the TFR Cold War/Air Power thread. Apparently the Swedes did some extensive and publicly documented testing about their effectiveness. I'll quote the post by "The Fluff" about those tests:

TheFluff posted:

Anyway, Murgos asked for the report so I'll deliver. The Swedish army testing of napalm against tanks was done in the early 1950's as a response to reports out of Korea where napalm was apparently being widely used and hailed as very effective. There were some unconfirmed rumors about napalm suffocating tank crews and they wanted to verify if this was true or not, if napalm was an effective anti-tank weapon, and if tanks needed additional protection against napalm. So, they tested it, and mostly in very large quantities - the smallest napalm charge they tested was 2,5 liters, which is bigger than most bottles you'd be able to use for molotov cocktails, and the biggest was 2x400 liter bombs dropped from an aircraft.

The full report is here. It's in Swedish, of course, and it's 30 pages so I'm not going to translate the entire thing, but I'll cover the key findings.

The testing was done mainly against a strv m/42 (a pretty bad tank from early WW2, equipped with two Scania gasoline engines), complete with all equipment minus the radio, fuel tanks filled to about 50%, but with no ammo on board. CO, CO2 and temperature sensors were placed inside the crew compartment. All hatches were closed. The napalm used was 80 octane aviation gasoline thickened with 6% American-made M1 napalm thickening agent. There were three separate trial occasions, called A, B and C, and in each one napalm was applied to the tank in a different way - in trial A they used a flamethrower-like device to spray it from various angles, 2.5 liters per application. In trial B they used varying numbers of 5 and 10 liter buckets of napalm placed next to and on top on the tank in different places. Finally in trial C they used a pair of J 26's (surplus P-51D Mustangs) to drop first two and then four 400 liter drop tanks filled with napalm gel on top of the tank. The trials considered to be the harshest (in fact unrealistically so) were in series B, where in a few trials they applied a total of 115 liters of napalm in a very concentrated area. In most of the trials they let the napalm burn itself out, which could take up to 10 minutes or even more in some cases, but they also did some experiments with trying to extinguish it.

What they found was that in basically all cases the napalm does very little actual damage to the tank. At this point though I need to mention that I'm an idiot who claimed things from memory earlier, because I said they never got the engines to stop, but I was confusing this report with the strv 103 one (where that is true). In this report they did manage to get the engines to stop in some cases (mainly in the ones where they dropped the better part of a metric ton of napalm on top of the tank, so it's literally engulfed in a fireball for a couple of seconds). Below follows some details from specific trials.

When they were using the 2.5 liter flamethrower thing, they did three trials where they aimed it directly at the engine deck from above, with the engines off (A 8:1), at idle rpm (A 8:2) and at normal operating rpm (A 8:3), and in A 8:2 the engines did actually stop almost immediately. In A 8:3 they kept running. They also tried to get the napalm into the engine compartment by spraying it into the engine exhaust grating, but it didn't really work and the engines kept running.

In trial B 4 they poured 35 liters of napalm all over the engine deck with the engines running at operating rpm, and got the left engine to stop but the right one kept running. The napalm burned intensely for two minutes and was gone after seven minutes. In trial B 5 they used a total of 115 liters of napalm all around the left side of the tank, arranged like so:

The engines were running at operating rpm and kept running for 3 minutes, then stopped due to suspected vapour lock in the fuel lines. Both of the tank's automatic fire extinguishers activated on their own after one minute. After five minutes the fire is put out manually, after the which the engines can be restarted again with no issues, but the intense fire has caused some damage to the coolant hoses on both the engines and the hydraulic gearboxes.

Trial B 6 was identical to B 5 but done as a showcase for a bunch of high officers. In practical terms the same result, but the engines stopped after only 1,5 minutes this time, again due to vapour lock. This trial included some rabbits in the crew compartment, which were removed after six minutes, alive and unharmed. A lot of smoke in the crew compartment however due to napalm getting in through the steering gear hatches and landing in some leaked oil under the steering gearbox.

In trial C 2 they dropped 2x 400 liters of napalm from a Mustang and that made both engines stop immediately. As in B 6 the crew compartment was filled with oil smoke, again due to leaked oil from the steering gearbox being heated from underneath the tank. Rabbits unharmed after the tank has been 9 minutes in the fire.

I could go on but I think this is enough to illustrate the point. The report concludes that no improvements to the tanks are necessary to protect specifically against napalm, but it is critically important to train crews properly on what to do in case of fire outside the tank, because the morale impact from a napalm strike on an untrained crew can be devastating. Also, it's important to clean oil leaks up.

Also, here have a video from another trial where they covered a tank with several hundred liters of Napalm without much of an effect (Napalm starts at 18:20)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpiGLA9BKWc

# ? Mar 29, 2022 10:36

PC LOAD LETTER: May 23, 2005; WTF?!

DTurtle posted:

There was a somewhat long and ... heated ... discussion about Molotov cocktails in the TFR Cold War/Air Power thread. Apparently the Swedes did some extensive and publicly documented testing about their effectiveness. I'll quote the post by "The Fluff" about those tests:

Great post and sources!

# ? Mar 29, 2022 10:44

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

DickEmery posted:

Surely if it's an unmanned drone being tank shaped isn't an actual requirement?
There's limitations due to having to carry a big gun and be armoured etc but without having to fit humans in there wouldn't they be like smaller and faster in the way aerial drones are compared to planes?

If the actual requirement is "apply explosives to enemy", the Ukrainians are already there with small drones that drop mortar shells.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 10:49

GABA ghoul: Oct 29, 2011

https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1508398726099914756?t=Dbn_UzDAbagUtOXT-w4PTA&s=19

While the GDP(PPP) per capita of Russia is more than double that of Ukraine, their median incomes(PPP) are actually surprisingly close($4416 for Ukraine, $5504 for Russia). Looks like almost all the income from resources extraction in Russia mostly goes to a small group of people and doesn't benefit the population much and Ukraine might have had a similar economic development as Russia, despite being at war for 8 years.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 10:50

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

GABA ghoul posted:

https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1508398726099914756?t=Dbn_UzDAbagUtOXT-w4PTA&s=19

While the GDP(PPP) per capita of Russia is more than double that of Ukraine, their median incomes(PPP) are actually surprisingly close($4416 for Ukraine, $5504 for Russia). Looks like almost all the income from resources extraction in Russia mostly goes to a small group of people and doesn't benefit the population much and Ukraine might have had a similar economic development as Russia, despite being at war for 8 years.

That seems... questionable. Russia outside of moscow is definitely a shithole but I kind of doubt Ukraine would look impressively rich to them. Maybe it's just me though because for me even Eastern Slovakia seemed like a wasteland.

Ola posted:

If the actual requirement is "apply explosives to enemy", the Ukrainians are already there with small drones that drop mortar shells.

The switchblades? Are they on the way? Man I can only imagine the nightmare they would be in an insurgency within the occupied areas.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 10:56

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

GABA ghoul posted:

https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1508398726099914756?t=Dbn_UzDAbagUtOXT-w4PTA&s=19

While the GDP(PPP) per capita of Russia is more than double that of Ukraine, their median incomes(PPP) are actually surprisingly close($4416 for Ukraine, $5504 for Russia). Looks like almost all the income from resources extraction in Russia mostly goes to a small group of people and doesn't benefit the population much and Ukraine might have had a similar economic development as Russia, despite being at war for 8 years.

I just assumed that tweet was taking the piss.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 10:57

Somaen: Nov 19, 2007; by vyelkin

A lot of these soldiers are coming from shithole villages in Siberia and the Urals. Someone living in Buryatiya or Kuzbass without gas, water from a well and a toilet being a hole in the ground, will have a much worse quality of life than a burgher from a Ukrainian city

# ? Mar 29, 2022 11:01

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Shows what she knows about Western countries, I'm pretty sure everyone will be able to come up with a list pretty quickly. Even without any russian bombs.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 11:02

PerilPastry: Oct 10, 2012

GABA ghoul posted:

https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1508398726099914756?t=Dbn_UzDAbagUtOXT-w4PTA&s=19

While the GDP(PPP) per capita of Russia is more than double that of Ukraine, their median incomes(PPP) are actually surprisingly close($4416 for Ukraine, $5504 for Russia). Looks like almost all the income from resources extraction in Russia mostly goes to a small group of people and doesn't benefit the population much and Ukraine might have had a similar economic development as Russia, despite being at war for 8 years.

I don't have an informed opinion on any of that but, come on, this guy is obviously full of poo poo.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 11:03

uncleTomOfFinland: May 25, 2008

mobby_6kl posted:

Shows what she knows about Western countries, I'm pretty sure everyone will be able to come up with a list pretty quickly. Even without any russian bombs.

We can do the 1323 border with Russia easily

EDIT: Also all the people complaining about petrol prices would end up on the Russian side so they win as well.

uncleTomOfFinland fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Mar 29, 2022

# ? Mar 29, 2022 11:05

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

mobby_6kl posted:

Shows what she knows about Western countries, I'm pretty sure everyone will be able to come up with a list pretty quickly. Even without any russian bombs.

I'd give them Queensland in a heartbeat.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 11:06

raifield: Feb 21, 2005

mobby_6kl posted:

Shows what she knows about Western countries, I'm pretty sure everyone will be able to come up with a list pretty quickly. Even without any russian bombs.

Florida, immediately. The threat of ending up with Florida as part of a peace deal is almost as much of a deterrent against invasion as nuclear weapons.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 11:11

Nail Rat: Dec 29, 2000; You maniacs! You blew it up! God damn you! God damn you all to hell!!

mobby_6kl posted:

Shows what she knows about Western countries, I'm pretty sure everyone will be able to come up with a list pretty quickly. Even without any russian bombs.

Florida, Alabama, hell most of the south, and as someone in Chicago, almost all of Illinois. Including all of the suburbs.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 11:11

Gejnor: Mar 14, 2005; Fun Shoe

raifield posted:

Florida, immediately. The threat of ending up with Florida as part of a peace deal is almost as much of a deterrent against invasion as nuclear weapons.

Sir, warcrimes are expressly forbidden under the Geneva convention!!

# ? Mar 29, 2022 11:12

Owling Howl: Jul 17, 2019

GABA ghoul posted:

While the GDP(PPP) per capita of Russia is more than double that of Ukraine, their median incomes(PPP) are actually surprisingly close($4416 for Ukraine, $5504 for Russia). Looks like almost all the income from resources extraction in Russia mostly goes to a small group of people and doesn't benefit the population much and Ukraine might have had a similar economic development as Russia, despite being at war for 8 years.

As I understand it military service has a poor reputation and offers little respect in Russia so anyone who can avoid it do so. Those who do chose to become professional soldiers are disproportionately from rural villages and minorities - the poorest groups from the least developed areas. Now they are fighting around Kharkiv, Kyiv and Mariupol which are probably the best developed areas of Ukraine. Or were in the case of Mariupol.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 11:20

PerilPastry: Oct 10, 2012

gay picnic defence posted:

I just assumed that tweet was taking the piss.

"My sources in the intel community are telling me that the Russians are so enraptured by innovations like "the wheel" and "the secret of man's red fire" that tank crews are increasingly trading in their t-14s for glass beads and copper bells."

PeterCat posted:

I'm sharing this post from the Milhist thread. It's a commentary on a WW2 US Army film on how to deal with tanks. One thing mentioned is that molotovs do work, though modern AFVs are more resistant to them than the older vehicles.

If nothing else, there is a heavy psychological effect of "Oh My God, the tank is on fire!"

This was a fun watch. Incidentally, the "tanker" here is Dick Purcell. He was the first guy to play Captain America too.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 11:22

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

mobby_6kl posted:

Shows what she knows about Western countries, I'm pretty sure everyone will be able to come up with a list pretty quickly. Even without any russian bombs.

I'm Irish, we did exactly this with the northern quarter of our country a hundred years ago. Results have been mixed.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 11:29

GABA ghoul: Oct 29, 2011

PerilPastry posted:

I don't have an informed opinion on any of that but, come on, this guy is obviously full of poo poo.

It does seem to check out with the official numbers though and I'm surprised how wealthy Ukraine is myself. The PPP mean wage is really that close to Russia's while Russia has a much steeper wealth devide between Moscow and the imperial periphery.

Also holy poo poo, 5.8% of the Russian population still use outhouses/ditches with no piping according to official government statistics. How much does some pipes and a septic tank cost?

# ? Mar 29, 2022 11:32

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

BigRoman posted:

I'm genuinely curious. Are there any recent, reputable polls that indicate how popular the LNR & DNR are? Would there be a partisan movement in Luhansk or Donetsk absent Russian support? That said, I agree that the idea of Ukraine taking back Crimea is a pipe dream absent something crazy like the complete collapse of Russia.

There absolutely wouldn�t. LNR and DNR came to be via Russian FSB operative taking some Russia troops and Crimean mafia, and using that to elevate local mafia and fascists in Donbas. They got their poo poo kicked in so hard, after everyone was done with them torturing people and filming �badass� cosplay of WW2 Red Army officers, that they had to have Russian army to roll in and bail them out. Something like half to 3/4 of population had fled the affected areas before this episode of war kicked off.

Russians don�t like them either, it�s just a convenient cudgel to bludgeon Ukraine with.

BigRoman posted:

I seriously doubt that the West can maintain the unity and put in the self sacrifice to keep up the current sanctions against Russia for 10 years. It's a big market with a lot of natural resources. Hell, if Trump gets elected in 2024, its game over for sanctions an unity.

It�s �game over� for Russia if sanctions last until 2023, and catastrophe of untold proportions if they stay merely as is until January 2025. The country will barely have any civil aviation by the end of the year, or functioning oil fields by the end of the next.

Shibawanko posted:

i havent been following. are the russians still losing or have they consolidated now that they apparently decided to focus on the east?

The focus so far is stated and we�re only seeing some nominal pullback in north-eastern front. So far they�re still not winning anywhere except Mariupol, which is taking them embarrassingly long time (in perspective of apparent attempts to capture Kharkiv or Kyiv) and comes at an unknown cost, after they bombed city into rubble and drove 2/3 of the population away. Kherson is seemingly contested right now - if Ukraine retakes it, that�s where they will actually start losing.

mobby_6kl posted:

So you're saying it can be done...

Any Ukrainian military action in Crimea is crazy Clancy poo poo.

PederP posted:

You also use artillery selectively to make sure they don't sleep well and to obfuscate when/if they'll be assaulted. Harassment fire is cheap and effective.

And depending on the morale, entrenchment, numbers, support and equipment of said troops, you can dislodge them. Frontal assaults are not the only way to effect a dislodgement. People don't like to sit around under constant artillery harassment and wait for starvation to set in or ammunition to run out. Cutting supply lines and applying pressure is a perfectly valid way to dislodge troops.

But even so, there are circumstances where an attack can dislodge entrenched troops using assaults after a barrage of destruction-focused artillery fire and aerial support has cleared the way. But granted, that does indicate a highly asymmetrical disposition of forces. Can Ukraine dislodge Russian forces from Donbas in this way? Probably not. Could they dislodge a mauled BTG doing an ad-hoc entrenchment outside Kyiv? I am pretty sure they could. Sure they could just wait a bit and starve them out - but if Ukrainian command need to free up units for elsewhere, it could make sense to force the issue a bit early.

So I don't think it's reasonable to just dismiss dislodgement as relevant. Especially not when considering some of the low-morale, poorly supplied, partially isolated pockets of the Russian advance. But one could also question whether they're actually able to entrench in any meaningful way. Some of what has been shown just looks like desperation rather than proper attempts at fortifying their positions.

The problem with dislodging LDNR frontline is that the area is so small that Russian army can just park artillery on Russian soil and fire away.

Reveilled posted:

But if hypothetically that changed, if the war was clearly lost and the mood shifted where the populace wanted peace at any price and Zelensky and the Rada were both willing to cede Crimea and the Donbas for peace, the territorial integrity clause of the constitution would not actually stop them from doing so.

I don�t think anyone argues such deal is hypothetically impossible. It�s simply not within Zelenskyy�s or Rada�s competence to offer a guarantee for such a deal to hold legal power in Ukraine.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 11:33

Kikas: Oct 30, 2012

Somaen posted:

A lot of these soldiers are coming from shithole villages in Siberia and the Urals. Someone living in Buryatiya or Kuzbass without gas, water from a well and a toilet being a hole in the ground, will have a much worse quality of life than a burgher from a Ukrainian city

Yeah the Russian Federation pretty much stops at Moscow. Once you go further East, there is only Russia. The country is very unevenly deployed. The claim about asphalt is far fetched, but street lights is a very real possibility.
I mean some of those things would be true with parts of Poland :v:

# ? Mar 29, 2022 11:33

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

GABA ghoul posted:

https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1508398726099914756?t=Dbn_UzDAbagUtOXT-w4PTA&s=19

While the GDP(PPP) per capita of Russia is more than double that of Ukraine, their median incomes(PPP) are actually surprisingly close($4416 for Ukraine, $5504 for Russia). Looks like almost all the income from resources extraction in Russia mostly goes to a small group of people and doesn't benefit the population much and Ukraine might have had a similar economic development as Russia, despite being at war for 8 years.

This sounds like a fanfic.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 11:37

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Reveilled posted:

What I'm arguing is that a constitution only functions to bind a state to the extent that it believes the consequence of a breach to be worse than observance. "I can promise anything on paper, regardless of whether it's actually for me to give away" is what the territorial integrity clause in Ukraine's constitution actually boils down to, it is the state promising not to agree to territorial changes, regardless of whether it's actually possible for a constitution to give that power away. It doesn't actually make a future peace treaty any easier or harder to void. Russia's demands include territorial changes, so even if you would not be interested in such a treaty, it seems the Russians are, and they don't seem to care that such a treaty would violate Ukraine's constitution--If they'd achieved their original war goals, they'd likely have voided the Ukrainian constitution in its entirety.

If a country suffers a total loss of a war, then the winning side can just do what they want, no peace negotiations or treaty needed anyway.
I'm thinking of a situation where at some point in the future the country that lost the war is governed by rule of law and somebody has to decide whether any territory had been signed away legally or not. If not, then the country can pursue its return. (There are of course practicalities and politics to consider, but in principle.) This makes it less valuable for the winning party.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 11:40

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Somaen posted:

A lot of these soldiers are coming from shithole villages in Siberia and the Urals. Someone living in Buryatiya or Kuzbass without gas, water from a well and a toilet being a hole in the ground, will have a much worse quality of life than a burgher from a Ukrainian city

I�ve actually been to Kuzbas, and you�d have to go to some 300 people village in the neck of the woods for that - and that�s not a guarantee. Soviets knew how to deploy infrastructure at scale, and did it it well enough.

GABA ghoul posted:

Also holy poo poo, 5.8% of the Russian population still use outhouses/ditches with no piping according to official government statistics. How much does some pipes and a septic tank cost?

More than you want to spend when making GBS threads in an outhouse with your $200/month income does the job.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 11:42

Just Another Lurker: May 1, 2009

mobby_6kl posted:

Shows what she knows about Western countries, I'm pretty sure everyone will be able to come up with a list pretty quickly. Even without any russian bombs.

United Kingdom immediately hands over Northern Ireland (am from Northern Ireland). :stonklol:

# ? Mar 29, 2022 11:52

ronya: Nov 8, 2010; I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.

https://twitter.com/tass_agency/status/1508739518752595970

https://twitter.com/C_Barraud/status/1508733080726556676

Any guesses?

# ? Mar 29, 2022 11:57

Mymla: Aug 12, 2010

mobby_6kl posted:

Shows what she knows about Western countries, I'm pretty sure everyone will be able to come up with a list pretty quickly. Even without any russian bombs.

Putin can have everything south of Sundsvall.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 12:03

Inferior Third Season: Jan 15, 2005

Zelenskyj just gave an address to the Danish government. It is a bit weird hearing the president of a country at war go from talking about their enemy committing war crimes and murdering/raping women and children, to 20 seconds later thanking Lego for deciding not to sell toys in Russia for a while.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 12:05

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

ronya posted:

https://twitter.com/tass_agency/status/1508739518752595970

https://twitter.com/C_Barraud/status/1508733080726556676

Good thing we won, let's go home

# ? Mar 29, 2022 12:05

PederP: Nov 20, 2009

Inferior Third Season posted:

Zelenskyj just gave an address to the Danish government. It is a bit weird hearing the president of a country at war go from talking about their enemy committing war crimes and murdering/raping women and children, to 20 seconds later thanking Lego for deciding not to sell toys in Russia for a while.

The part about janteloven was also pretty weird. Asking Denmark to be responsible for rebuilding a specific city was a smart move - if Ukraine does the same with other cities and nations, Denmark will immediately consider it the most important thing in the world to do a better job than Sweden, and make sure 'our' city is rebuilt much better than the Swedish one, whatever the cost.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 12:09

Aertuun: Dec 18, 2012

https://twitter.com/jsuedekum/status/1508751047648497669

"Jens Suedekum, Professor of International Economics, Heinrich-Heine-University D�sseldorf � Advisory Board German Federal Ministry for Economic Affairs"

# ? Mar 29, 2022 12:10

Barrel Cactaur: Oct 6, 2021

GABA ghoul posted:

Also holy poo poo, 5.8% of the Russian population still use outhouses/ditches with no piping according to official government statistics. How much does some pipes and a septic tank cost?

A lot especially in areas where you have to deal with permafrost.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 12:11

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

https://twitter.com/abarbashin/status/1508736205650903040

https://twitter.com/leonidragozin/status/1508717087191187458

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1508712143708987401

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1508709771846770688

# ? Mar 29, 2022 12:11

GaussianCopula: Jun 5, 2011; Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

GABA ghoul posted:

https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1508398726099914756?t=Dbn_UzDAbagUtOXT-w4PTA&s=19

While the GDP(PPP) per capita of Russia is more than double that of Ukraine, their median incomes(PPP) are actually surprisingly close($4416 for Ukraine, $5504 for Russia). Looks like almost all the income from resources extraction in Russia mostly goes to a small group of people and doesn't benefit the population much and Ukraine might have had a similar economic development as Russia, despite being at war for 8 years.

People making GBS threads on this should keep in mind that the Russian army is an army of the poor minorities in Russia ("country bumpkin" is a word frequently used to describe them) and not the middle class who are invading Ukraine along major roadways. When they go looting, they are probably going for middle/upper class parts, so that might add to the distorted view they have.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 12:13

Kikas: Oct 30, 2012

Edit: I'm a dumbass please ignore.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 12:14

Xarn: Jun 26, 2015

mobby_6kl posted:

Shows what she knows about Western countries, I'm pretty sure everyone will be able to come up with a list pretty quickly. Even without any russian bombs.

Can I give up multiple regions?

# ? Mar 29, 2022 12:20

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

GABA ghoul posted:

Also holy poo poo, 5.8% of the Russian population still use outhouses/ditches with no piping according to official government statistics. How much does some pipes and a septic tank cost?

It's not just the cost. In places like Sakha or Siberia it's just too loving cold to have plumbing outside of the cities.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 12:21

Moon Slayer: Jun 19, 2007

PC LOAD LETTER posted:

Its not a requirement they look exactly like a tank and its likely and drone tank will be smaller than a regular tank but the armor, weapon, engine, etc requirements are likely going to force it to be fairly decent sized at least give it similar looks to a tank.

Already posted this but this sort've what they're likely to end up looking like and weighing. Lots smaller than a regular tank but still fairly big and heavy.

Dahir Insaat has got you covered!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UII0NFypAI

# ? Mar 29, 2022 12:24

Hannibal Rex: Feb 13, 2010

https://twitter.com/MrKovalenko/status/1508519883780284431?t=4Ln403vRG8sU5c6jv2yR_g&s=19

Took them long enough, now we'll see if they've adequately prepared Russian public opinion for this move.

Sanctions chat: Even if Putin is bluffing now, and it's certainly a move that slows the devaluation of the ruble for a few days, I'm pretty sure this Fall/Winter the EU will waver and pressure Ukraine for a settlement, because I really don't expect a lot of EU countries to be able to wean themselves off Russian gas by then.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 12:27

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 23:27

alex314: Nov 22, 2007

A ton of laid off workers, so at least some of them might end up taking the offer from Russian Army.

# ? Mar 29, 2022 12:29

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > READ OP! War in Ukraine: a distressed blender making too many margaritas at once

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