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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Even if you went to the hottest hot spot in the red forest, dug up a bunch of dirt, and ate it, you still wouldn't get acute radiation poisoning. You would, at worst, get statistically high levels of cancer in the next few years from soldiers stationed in and around the plant. I'm pretty confident this will be mass hysteria. They're in a stressed state in what is basically the world's biggest haunted house. Anything goes slightly wrong with your health in there, and you'd reasonably start making GBS threads yourself. So, basically Havana Syndrome on a mass scale.
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Mar 31, 2022 11:24
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Even if you went to the hottest hot spot in the red forest, dug up a bunch of dirt, and ate it, you still wouldn't get acute radiation poisoning. You would, at worst, get statistically high levels of cancer in the next few years from soldiers stationed in and around the plant. Not a nucular expert but IIRC the problem is that certain fungi tend to accumulate and concentrate radionuclides in the fruit body so when you eat a mushroom you might be eating all the radioactive Caesium from half a ton of soil or something. Dunno if it's enough to give you acute radiation poison, just wanted to mention it.
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Mar 31, 2022 11:26
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quote:The ICRC did say that it had been involved in two evacuation operations for Ukrainian people, on March 15 and March 18 when they “facilitated the voluntary safe passage of civilians” out of the northeastern city of Sumy. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/red-cross-denies-role-in-forced-evacuations-of-ukrainians-to-russia/ There sure are some Ukrainian allegations flying, but the Red Cross have been in many war zones and they are good guys. I'm not going to rule anything out, but so far I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and put this down to fog of war, possibly some Russian false flag poo poo and understandably high Ukrainian emotions.
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Mar 31, 2022 11:28
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Dwesa posted:Not sure whether this was posted or mentioned before, but Russia allegedly shot down their own aircraft Dick Ripple posted:Russia shot down 6 or 8 of their own aircraft in the recent Georgian conflict. We obviously won't find out the full extent of it until after the war, but it's pretty much a given that the amount of friendly-fire in this conflict is going to be completely and utterly bonkers, especially on the Russian side with their piss-poor comms and coordination, but even on the Ukrainian side too I imagine.
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Mar 31, 2022 11:31
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What evidence is there of ICRC participating in forced displacement of people from Ukraine? I remember one tweet some time ago that claimed Russia was setting up refugee camps and that ICRC was going to get involved. The first part is demonstrably true, as a lot of people from LDNR choose to evacuate to Russia freely/have no other options, and there are obviously cases where Ukrainians on newly occupied territories leave for Russia as their only way to escape the warzone (in part because Russia often blocks corridors to Western Ukraine), so there are refugee centres in the open, but what's the role of the Red Cross exactly? My reading of the situation is that Ukraine is rightfully unhappy with the fact that Russians don't give people the option to evacuate to the West, and instead pressure them to move to Russia, which one could argue classifies as forced displacement (not to mention kidnapped Ukrainian mayors and activists, who are probably not kept in regular refugee camps). ICRC's involvement, similar to the Belarusian border crisis, seems to be that of helping people where they are without calling out the aggressor. The justification being that doing so would put their work in jeopardy.
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Mar 31, 2022 11:31
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Bug Squash posted:I'm pretty confident this will be mass hysteria. They're in a stressed state in what is basically the world's biggest haunted house. Anything goes slightly wrong with your health in there, and you'd reasonably start making GBS threads yourself. So, basically Havana Syndrome on a mass scale. If they got any good loot and think they can bribe a doctor it's a good play. We all got sick from Chernobyl (probably psychosomatic), pass some swag to a doctor to say that these soldiers have radiation poisoning and need to be sent back home to recuperate.
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Mar 31, 2022 11:43
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Sounds like something that would work in the effeminate, decadent armies of the so called West. In Russia we have strong soldiers, if they complain, we beat them up. If they get up, they were faking it and we beat them up again. If they don't get up, we get somebody who is still able to move to dig a shallow grave.
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Mar 31, 2022 11:48
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cinci zoo sniper posted:https://twitter.com/kevinrothrock/status/1509462280936857600 Yeah, this is flailing and a hope that trump/chuds do more pro Russia. Dwesa posted:Despite the best efforts of Fucker Carlson and other vermin, it doesn't really seem to work, not even among Republicans Yeah, it’s the dumbest trumpists and Q types who believe that poo poo.
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Mar 31, 2022 11:52
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Short thread. https://twitter.com/elbeardsley/status/1509468052202692611
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Mar 31, 2022 12:05
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I'm willing to believe it simply on the grounds the motherfucker is still alive, and people in his situation don't tend to live through intentional detainment by Russians. How much it speaks to a wider issue instead of him getting lucky with the general incompetence of this invasion, well, remains to be seen.
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Mar 31, 2022 12:09
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Not really unexpected, but at this point making Ukraine totally reliant on other countries for arms is probably not going to have the long term effect that Russia presumably thought it would a month ago. https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1509478186761039877?t=YxWMTR27viTT0kuUSNWc1A&s=19 ]
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Mar 31, 2022 12:13
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Alchenar posted:Not really unexpected, but at this point making Ukraine totally reliant on other countries for arms is probably not going to have the long term effect that Russia presumably thought it would a month ago. It's not, but maybe they can now claim that the country is demilitarized
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Mar 31, 2022 12:18
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Gives me the same vibe as people walking into Comet Ping Pong demanding to see the child trafficking tunnels. Or the Alabama national guard marching into L.A. and shaking the mayor down to find out where the kolkhozes and Stalin statues are.
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Mar 31, 2022 12:20
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A primer on the Ukrainian perspective on the ICRC thing. https://twitter.com/kvtktkt/status/1507851273550409728
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Mar 31, 2022 12:27
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That Hunter/Biden testimony in Moscow sounds fair. Why not go along with it as long as Putin testifies in The Hague at the same time?
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Mar 31, 2022 12:28
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Alchenar posted:Not really unexpected, but at this point making Ukraine totally reliant on other countries for arms is probably not going to have the long term effect that Russia presumably thought it would a month ago. Also, it’s buildings in the end of the day. People are likely alive, and thus the institutional competency remains. If they have managed to preserve the institutional knowledge, digitally or otherwise, there’s a fair chance they’ll rebuild the sector much faster than what Kremlin could’ve expected.
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Mar 31, 2022 12:30
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Also, it’s buildings in the end of the day. People are likely alive, and thus the institutional competency remains. If they have managed to preserve the institutional knowledge, digitally or otherwise, there’s a fair chance they’ll rebuild the sector much faster than what Kremlin could’ve expected. Oof, there's going to be some hard economic choices about what gets rebuilt. Also if you are rebuilding the factories and tooling from scratch then there is the option to dump legacy platforms and fully modernise. Guilt the Germans into giving you the right to set up a Leopard 2 factory and build as many Ukr variants as you want etc etc.
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Mar 31, 2022 12:35
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Big "you don't know anything about me MOM" energy https://twitter.com/BenHNoble/status/1509486310091857925?t=s-i6EeKqlgKYnXECfDoVaA&s=19 I would guess this is in response to US officials saying Putin was misled by his advisors
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Mar 31, 2022 12:38
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Alchenar posted:Oof, there's going to be some hard economic choices about what gets rebuilt. Also if you are rebuilding the factories and tooling from scratch then there is the option to dump legacy platforms and fully modernise. Guilt the Germans into giving you the right to set up a Leopard 2 factory and build as many Ukr variants as you want etc etc. The french are going to drop the leclerc for a leopard2 derivative in the next future(MGCS), after that they could just gift Ukraine the whole tooling...
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Mar 31, 2022 12:39
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Paladinus posted:What evidence is there of ICRC participating in forced displacement of people from Ukraine? I remember one tweet some time ago that claimed Russia was setting up refugee camps and that ICRC was going to get involved. The first part is demonstrably true, as a lot of people from LDNR choose to evacuate to Russia freely/have no other options, and there are obviously cases where Ukrainians on newly occupied territories leave for Russia as their only way to escape the warzone (in part because Russia often blocks corridors to Western Ukraine), so there are refugee centres in the open, but what's the role of the Red Cross exactly? And "one could" argue. Ugh. Given the repeated blocking of humanitarian supplies to Mariupol and blocking non-Russian evacuation attempts, you're playing a lawyer to war criminals. And "corridors to Western Ukraine"? That's not where people from Mariupol flee.
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Mar 31, 2022 12:41
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Alchenar posted:Oof, there's going to be some hard economic choices about what gets rebuilt. Also if you are rebuilding the factories and tooling from scratch then there is the option to dump legacy platforms and fully modernise. Guilt the Germans into giving you the right to set up a Leopard 2 factory and build as many Ukr variants as you want etc etc. Yeah, I’m thinking that we’re going to see only some of the best Ukrainian stuff survive - Skifs, Neptunes, Tochkas, etcetera. I don’t see amazing value in rebuilding factories for Soviet tank variants, when they can partner with someone in America/Europe/Korea/Japan for building more modern poo poo. Going to be plenty of simply outsourced western stuff as well, which we’ll likely be happy to pay for in complete separation from whatever Ukrainian Marshall Plan looks like, simply to buy a large and experienced MIC workforce.
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Mar 31, 2022 12:42
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Dwesa posted:Despite the best efforts of Fucker Carlson and other vermin, it doesn't really seem to work, not even among Republicans Man, I wouldn't have guessed that it would be that much higher, but that low is surprising. That's pretty much margin of error off of zero
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Mar 31, 2022 12:42
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ummel posted:A primer on the Ukrainian perspective on the ICRC thing. Right. You mean tweet. All that seems to say is that the Red Cross - an international and internationally recognized aid organization - is setting up refugee aid resources and offices around a theatre of war (Ukraine) regardless of national borders, and this somehow "whitewashes" or legitimizes Russia's displacement of refugees from Ukraine. Ok. So the Red Cross should, what? Refrain from helping refugees where they are? Arm themselves and start fighting the russians? Condemn thr russian state and get tossed out of Russia, unable to help anyone? What power does the Red Cross have to stop this war, stop an invasion, stop the refugee flow , prevent the russians from doing basically anything? The Red Cross operates in accordance with international law protected by the Geneva convention (which the russians hardly give a gently caress about) so they can go anywhere even into warzones to help victims. Helping the victims of war is helping the invader now? Absolute horseshit. You have an axe to grind about aid organizations, fine. Just be upfront about it.
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Mar 31, 2022 12:45
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Alchenar posted:Oof, there's going to be some hard economic choices about what gets rebuilt. Also if you are rebuilding the factories and tooling from scratch then there is the option to dump legacy platforms and fully modernise. Guilt the Germans into giving you the right to set up a Leopard 2 factory and build as many Ukr variants as you want etc etc. Bro given that basic car mechanics are now making ballistic shields and improvised tanks from scrap, I think the industry will recover very fast.
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Mar 31, 2022 12:46
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It's interesting that Republicans tended to be more strongly anti-Putin prior to 2014, joined hands with everyone else in condemning him in 2014 itself, but then afterwards went on a spree of thinking he was a great guy until the current total collapse. What exactly accounted for that surge of confidence, I wonder? Trump obviously played a role but apparently the trends were starting even before then. Conversely, interesting that Democrats tended to be more in favor of Putin prior to 2014 - I guess probably as part of a "We should be trying to make friends with and integrate Russia, not isolate it!" drive before deciding that Putin was not the man to do so. cinci zoo sniper posted:Also, it’s buildings in the end of the day. People are likely alive, and thus the institutional competency remains. If they have managed to preserve the institutional knowledge, digitally or otherwise, there’s a fair chance they’ll rebuild the sector much faster than what Kremlin could’ve expected. Alchenar posted:Oof, there's going to be some hard economic choices about what gets rebuilt. Also if you are rebuilding the factories and tooling from scratch then there is the option to dump legacy platforms and fully modernise. Guilt the Germans into giving you the right to set up a Leopard 2 factory and build as many Ukr variants as you want etc etc. Yeah, I actually kinda wonder - rebuilding the old factories and old knowledge may be an option, but I suspect Ukraine is going to want to jump on tooling for NATO gear instead of Warsaw Pact gear as much as possible when the war is over so the old competencies might take some retraining at least. In addition to their own homegrown defense initiatives of course. KitConstantine posted:Big "you don't know anything about me MOM" energy I mean they're not entirely wrong about not understanding what anyone in the Kremlin is thinking, but maybe that doesn't speak as well of them as they seem to think it does.
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Mar 31, 2022 12:47
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KitConstantine posted:Big "you don't know anything about me MOM" energy Seems like they're trying to convince themselves that there is some method to their madness.
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Mar 31, 2022 12:49
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Tomn posted:It's interesting that Republicans tended to be more strongly anti-Putin prior to 2014, joined hands with everyone else in condemning him in 2014 itself, but then afterwards went on a spree of thinking he was a great guy until the current total collapse. What exactly accounted for that surge of confidence, I wonder? Trump obviously played a role but apparently the trends were starting even before then. Conversely, interesting that Democrats tended to be more in favor of Putin prior to 2014 - I guess probably as part of a "We should be trying to make friends with and integrate Russia, not isolate it!" drive before deciding that Putin was not the man to do so. 2015/2016 was the apex of russian efforts on social media in the US. After the 2016 election anti-bot/disinfo efforts started to be taken at least somewhat seriously. That's not to say that suddenly they were eliminated from social media, just it went from basically unenforced/the wild west to more of a cat and mouse game. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Mar 31, 2022 |
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Mar 31, 2022 12:50
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Xachariah posted:Seems like they're trying to convince themselves that there is some method to their madness. One of my favorite parts is when they say "the fact that the US doesn't understand how we made these decisions means that WE should be worried about the US, actually!!!"
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Mar 31, 2022 12:53
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GABA ghoul posted:Not a nucular expert but IIRC the problem is that certain fungi tend to accumulate and concentrate radionuclides in the fruit body so when you eat a mushroom you might be eating all the radioactive Caesium from half a ton of soil or something. Dunno if it's enough to give you acute radiation poison, just wanted to mention it. Mushroom picking season is late summer, early to mid autumn. I think it was morels that could be seen as early in May, but in any case any speculation about soldiers foraging for fungi in March is absurd.
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Mar 31, 2022 12:54
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Xachariah posted:Seems like they're trying to convince themselves that there is some method to their madness. This is also why most places usually have officials and diplomats constantly having actual, genuine discussions with foreign diplomats and politicians rather than just lying to them constantly about everything. So even if they do periodically lie at least the other nations understand what they're thinking and how decisions are being made. Either way this is a big LOL because the US has been predicting their moves accurately throughout this war.
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Mar 31, 2022 12:55
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evilbastard posted:In conversation today the Chernobyl motorbike rider hoax of 2004 was mentioned. Turns out her Angelfire pages still exists, and is being updated (Last update March 24th) I remember that page, amazing it still exists. Here's another looney going into Chernobyl, on a road bike this time. He's back in Ukraine right now if you look at his channel, cycling round Kiev with the Ukrainian version of bike messengers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzHqffYGwfs&t=1910s
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Mar 31, 2022 12:55
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KitConstantine posted:Big "you don't know anything about me MOM" energy The Putinist strategy of "lie about everything, sell off all our logistics/ equipment, prostitute our troops, throw more VDV at it" is just too advanced for our malformed Western minds  Could they be any more CHUD NATION if they tried?
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Mar 31, 2022 12:57
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Ola posted:What's the deal here? Could the Russians be doing stuff under the Red Cross flag in some areas instead? Ukrainians seem to be mad that the red cross is neutral and working with the Russians to give aid to occupied areas and PoWs.
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Mar 31, 2022 12:58
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KitConstantine posted:Big "you don't know anything about me MOM" energy
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Mar 31, 2022 13:00
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Nice piece of fish posted:Right. You mean tweet. Red Cross are not even publishing the lists of refugees detained in Russia or helping them contact their relatives, they are covering up a war crime and waiting out until Russia officially annexes all of Donetsk region so they can pretend that no displacement happened because oops its inside one country now.
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Mar 31, 2022 13:01
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Nice piece of fish posted:Right. You mean tweet. They could stop participating in Russian forces deportation of Ukrainian nationals? Look, if the Red Cross knows: 1. Russian forces purposefully stop humanitarian corridors that would evacuate Ukrainian citizens to Ukrainian held territory by literally mining them and shelling civilians as they evacuate (a war crime); 2. Russian forces are forcing Ukrainians trying to evacuate combat zones to go to Russia, which constituted forced deportation, which is a war crime; and 3. Is taking away the Ukrainian passports and documents of Ukrainian civilians and the force relocating them deeper into Russia (another war crime); Then yes, the Red Cross should have absolutely nothing to do with the transportation, housing, care, and processing of Ukrainian citizens forced into Russia, because in doing so, even if you give the most charitable interpretation of this and say “the Red Cross is just trying to help suffering evacuees,” they are still willfully aiding and abetting a number of clear Russian war crimes and crimes against humanity. By way of analogy, if the Red Cross were helping the Germans process Jews during the Second World War, even if they were authentically trying to feed and cloth Jewish deportees, it would still have been aiding and abetting genocide. So I think it’s more than fair to point out to the Red Cross right now that if they as an organization are participating in any way in the Russian process of forcing Ukrainian citizens into Russia they are helping perpetrate a war crime, even if they are not the one driving the busses, taking away the passports, and forcing Ukrainians into the depths of Russia. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Mar 31, 2022 |
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Mar 31, 2022 13:02
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Nice piece of fish posted:Helping the victims of war is helping the invader now? And you should be upfront about being a Red Cross volunteer and engage with the subject matter of their post, instead of sealioning about. Given that they just shared what Ukrainians are saying, I would recommend first findings out what’s their actual opinion the matter is, before you attack it. Nevertheless, the gist of the material they shared boils down to a view that ICRC contributes to legitimisation of forced deportation of Ukrainian citizens to Russia, because it is Red Cross that ostensibly receives them in Russia, without exercising their mandate properly on Ukrainian territory - which would’ve included proper evacuation corridors.
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Mar 31, 2022 13:03
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Blaming the red cross is stupid, based on conspiracy theories, and there is no substance to speak of.
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Mar 31, 2022 13:06
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ZombieLenin posted:
The red cross gave aid to concentration camps and PoW camps in WWII. They didn't have the ability to stop what was happening, so just worked with the Nazis to help in anyway they could, sometimes simply registering names of deportees if they could not provide aid. You can criticize and they do deserve criticism for taking neutrality to its absurd ends sometimes, especially in ww2, but it fundamentally allows for aid to get through when it otherwise wouldn't. These people seem mad at realizing neutrality means neutrality, and international organizations not being superpowers, FishBulbia fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Mar 31, 2022 |
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Mar 31, 2022 13:07
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There is a principled stance and a material one. If the red cross protested what would that accomplish? No aid to refugees?
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Mar 31, 2022 13:10
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