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Comstar posted:Wargaming.net is leaving Russia and Belarus. They are closing their site in Minsk. They have a load of employees in Russia they have a duty of care to, it would not be fair to poo poo on them by posting something that would get them all a bit of special attention from the security services.
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Apr 4, 2022 13:41
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https://twitter.com/dmytrogurinmp/status/1510681928088829953 The usual cw apply, description of russian atrocities. The only moral thing is to wish as many dead russian soldiers as possible and total shunning of russia from all international arenas until their crimes have been prosecuted. Personally I am in favor of military intervention to help Ukraine, even if it means ww3
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Apr 4, 2022 13:41
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Senjuro posted:It's what makes tankies so particularly infuriating. They're simultaneously smart enough to see through western propaganda, something many people take at face value, and too dumb or stubborn to understand not every anti-western force is good and no atrocity is too great for them to reconsider their stance. They read a People's History of the United States when they were 19 and never extended their critical thinking any further than that
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Apr 4, 2022 13:41
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Senjuro posted:It's what makes tankies so particularly infuriating. They're simultaneously smart enough to see through western propaganda, something many people take at face value, and too dumb or stubborn to understand not every anti-western force is good and no atrocity is too great for them to reconsider their stance. this but someone has to be the Good guy then, its how humans are. they fall into the same traps the chuds do but tweaked a bit. they want big strong daddy but red instead of orange(well thats changing). freebooter posted:They read a People's History of the United States when they were 19 and never extended their critical thinking any further than that obviously not Zinn but has Chomsky said anything lately? he seems to be ok with various genocides or at least excusing them when they are happening.
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Apr 4, 2022 13:46
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https://twitter.com/SlavaMalamud/status/1510939537215737857
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Apr 4, 2022 13:53
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Are they aware that tattoos aren't manatory for Nazis? E: thats a stupid question mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Apr 4, 2022 |
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Apr 4, 2022 13:54
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My own 20yo-ish reading of A People's History was (while valuable) tempered by having recently visited the remembrance museum at Tuol Sleng and being very put off by the fact that when writing about the Mayaguez incident Zinn only referred to the Khmer Rouge as a "revolutionary regime" while painting the Americans as the only villains in the piece. Deeply disingenuous poo poo.
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Apr 4, 2022 13:54
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It seems that a debate is opening up on whether current events ought to be considered a genocide. https://twitter.com/eugene_finkel/status/1510922348899315716 https://twitter.com/eugene_finkel/status/1510951119991812098 I guess the RiA oped was more influential than intended.
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Apr 4, 2022 13:55
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What was the point of digging trenches in the red forest? I haven't read about trenching in any other area.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:03
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freebooter posted:They read a People's History of the United States when they were 19 and never extended their critical thinking any further than that I don’t know why they would get to that position my reading Howard Zinn, who was a loving bonafide war hero, who volunteered to fight exactly the kind of people who run the Russian Federation during the Second World War.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:05
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Heran Bago posted:What was the point of digging trenches in the red forest? I haven't read about trenching in any other area. Lots of trenches in the Donbas.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:07
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Heran Bago posted:What was the point of digging trenches in the red forest? I haven't read about trenching in any other area. Soldiers dig trenches everywhere, routinely. It's basic defense. There's trenches and embankments built around all their stuff.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:07
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Is that story about radiation poisoning based on anything besides seeing casevacs driving through the zone toward belarus
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Apr 4, 2022 14:09
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Heran Bago posted:What was the point of digging trenches in the red forest? I haven't read about trenching in any other area. There was trench digging elsewhere, originally looked like the Russian's plan to try to defend and hold their gains around Kyiv.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:10
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If the big European nations like Germany vote to ban oil/gas from Russia, but a country like Hungary opposes, can Ukraine just tell Hungary to gently caress off and cut the pipeline, go source it some other way?
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Apr 4, 2022 14:12
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Senjuro posted:It's what makes tankies so particularly infuriating. They're simultaneously smart enough to see through western propaganda, something many people take at face value, and too dumb or stubborn to understand not every anti-western force is good and no atrocity is too great for them to reconsider their stance. Are they really smart enough to see through western propaganda, or are they just disaffected from society and reflexively contrarian? Is a bitter, MAGA 20 year old Proud Boy who calls CNN fake news and guzzles down anti-vax Facebook articles pushed by Russia smart enough to see through western propaganda? Perhaps you're conflating process and results.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:13
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Feliday Melody posted:Close enough I think I also saw a cartoon with a US M1 tank painted in LGBT colors vs a russian tank with a huge main gun just before the war too lol. Deteriorata posted:Soldiers dig trenches everywhere, routinely. It's basic defense. There's trenches and embankments built around all their stuff.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:15
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Pleasant Friend posted:If the big European nations like Germany vote to ban oil/gas from Russia, but a country like Hungary opposes, can Ukraine just tell Hungary to gently caress off and cut the pipeline, go source it some other way? does it have to be unanimous?
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Apr 4, 2022 14:15
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Eh...you know, that's not appropriate for the thread, so I'm editing it out.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:17
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Both genocide scholars and genocide deniers are united by a shared belief that the word "genocide" is a magic shibboleth that can induce people en masse to give a poo poo about horrifying atrocities. Personally I believe the word no longer has the kind of valence it had in the immediately post-WW2 era, partially due to countries like Israel turning the genocide dial until it broke off, and partially due to the internet age i.e. the abandonment of anything that we could confidently point to as consensus reality.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:20
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Deteriorata posted:Soldiers dig trenches everywhere, routinely. It's basic defense. There's trenches and embankments built around all their stuff. Poorly disciplined soldiers run, well disciplined soldiers dig. Armies have done a century of work learning to do it fancier, but the most basic defense is a hole and a pile of dirt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFq---9EopM mobby_6kl posted:They do but they almost certainly didn't actually dig ditches there, it was probably an exaggeration of just being idiots They likely actually dug holes, just because armies dig a lot of holes for basically everything. Barrel Cactaur fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Apr 4, 2022 |
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Apr 4, 2022 14:21
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FishBulbia posted:Is that story about radiation poisoning based on anything besides seeing casevacs driving through the zone toward belarus It's based on ambulances being photographed pulling up to a radiation treatment facility in Gomel. There aren't a lot of feasible explanations for why they were there.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:22
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Dapper_Swindler posted:does it have to be unanimous? Considering what I read about Poland and Lithuania abandoning Russia gas, it sounds like Germany/France does not need permission from Hungary to cut their own purchases, thank goodness. However it sounds very unlikely Hungary would ever choose to stop - but all their gas runs through Ukraine. Ukraine hasn't turned off the gas so far because Western Europe is essential to their victory, but without risking pissing off Germany any longer, I kinda hope Ukraine wouldn't feel the need to keep supplying a country like Hungary with a head of state so nakedly against them.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:23
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Edit: ^^ Do not conflate purchasing decisions of individual companies or countries with EU-dictated embargo.FishBulbia posted:Is that story about radiation poisoning based on anything besides seeing casevacs driving through the zone toward belarus No. The actual statement was worded in a way where the trench statement could’ve easily meant “why did you need radiation evac from Chernobyl, you dumbfucks were digging trenches there or something?” Pleasant Friend posted:If the big European nations like Germany vote to ban oil/gas from Russia, but a country like Hungary opposes, can Ukraine just tell Hungary to gently caress off and cut the pipeline, go source it some other way? No, for many reasons. Dapper_Swindler posted:does it have to be unanimous? Depends on the exact article they’re put under, but it in this case it most likely is a foreign policy decision, in which case it must be anonymous.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:34
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Pleasant Friend posted:If the big European nations like Germany vote to ban oil/gas from Russia, but a country like Hungary opposes, can Ukraine just tell Hungary to gently caress off and cut the pipeline, go source it some other way? Russia spent much of the last decade isolating Ukraine and creating alternative supply lines for their fossil fuels to European nations. Hungary switched to Russian pipelines via Austria and Serbia last year. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/hungary-receives-gas-shipments-ukraine-pipeline-operator-says-2021-10-04/
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Apr 4, 2022 14:34
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Zelensky visited Bucha and just held a press conference from the town (surrounded by Very Large Men). Haven't found a translation yet.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:38
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cinci zoo sniper posted:No, for many reasons. Would you mind explaining some of the reasons why? Kaal posted:Russia spent much of the last decade isolating Ukraine and creating alternative supply lines for their fossil fuels to European nations. Hungary switched to Russian pipelines via Austria and Serbia last year. I am not sure I understand the point of the article you linked, which seems to be about how Hungary IS getting gas from Ukraine. While its great for Hungary they have other options, wouldn't that also support the rational that Ukraine shouldn't facilitate gas from Russia to Hungary through their borders?
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Apr 4, 2022 14:42
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mobby_6kl posted:That's a good one too. Incredible how they don't get that Ukraine is a completely different situation than Libya and actually wants to be in the EU and get those sweet regional development funds. what gets me in that picture is how all those smaller countries are depicted as inanimate objects, just resources to be consumed and only the big powers are represented as characters with their own agency the picture says more about russia still being stuck in the imperialism era than anything else
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Apr 4, 2022 14:45
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Pleasant Friend posted:I am not sure I understand the point of the article you linked, which seems to be about how Hungary IS getting gas from Ukraine. While its great for Hungary they have other options, wouldn't that also support the rational that Ukraine shouldn't facilitate gas from Russia to Hungary through their borders? So what that article is talking about is that Gazprom stopped supplying gas to Hungary via Ukraine. As it states, any Ukraine-Hungary transfers are from residual stored supply, not from Gazprom. Hungary is now supplied via Austria and Serbia. Hungary hasn't been supplied via Ukraine since October 2021.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:48
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Pleasant Friend posted:If the big European nations like Germany vote to ban oil/gas from Russia, but a country like Hungary opposes, can Ukraine just tell Hungary to gently caress off and cut the pipeline, go source it some other way? Doesn't look like Germany is going to do that anyway, so it doesn't really matter. Robert Habeck is the German Federal Minister of Economics https://twitter.com/KSTA/status/1510958477727916035?s=20&t=xC7KgfL3sQZLyszE9xp-9Q Tweet translation: quote:Even after the atrocities and alleged war crimes in #Bucha , Robert #Habeck and Lars #Klingbeil maintain their position that an immediate stop to the supply of gas and oil from Russia is not feasible. Article link: https://www.ksta.de/wirtschaft/trot..._source=Twitter Machine translation - relevant paragraphs quote:Klingbeil said on Sunday evening on the ARD program "Anne Will" that, despite the terrible pictures of Butscha, he considered "an immediate gas embargo to be the wrong way for many reasons". The Bavarian Prime Minister, CSU boss Markus Söder, shared this position and pointed out that Russia was already looking for other customers, such as India. "We're just turning the gas tap a little further every day," said Klingbeil. To make a complete stop from one day to the next, "we have to talk about the consequences that this would have for us in Germany, despite all the brutality of these pictures and all the emotionality that I also have". It's not just about the consequences for industry, but also about social cohesion. There's more about how they're working on 'decoupling' from Russian coal by the end of summer/gas by the end of the year but the above is the bottom line.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:49
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Youth Decay posted:Zelensky visited Bucha and just held a press conference from the town (surrounded by Very Large Men). Haven't found a translation yet. https://twitter.com/kyivindependent/status/1510974076105498630 Pleasant Friend posted:Would you mind explaining some of the reasons why? To start with, I don’t know if Hungary receives all of its gas via Ukraine, and if it’s possible to isolate Hungarian gas flow so that no other destinations suffer a shortfall. Directly on the point, doing so would harm Ukrainian gas transit revenues, and piss of a lot of the Europe, and also give Hungary real reasons to stall or veto potential EU decisions on Ukraine, including permanently barring Ukraine from having a shot at EU membership, and any sanctions escalations right now. This is an impossibly naive idea.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:49
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Zlodo posted:what gets me in that picture is how all those smaller countries are depicted as inanimate objects, just resources to be consumed and only the big powers are represented as characters with their own agency Yup, its not an anti-imperialism piece, the message is that the bear is angry that someone else ate the sweet honey that HE was entitled to
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Apr 4, 2022 14:49
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mobby_6kl posted:I think I also saw a cartoon with a US M1 tank painted in LGBT colors vs a russian tank with a huge main gun just before the war too lol. That's a thing I'd actually like to see IRL.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:50
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mobby_6kl posted:I think I also saw a cartoon with a US M1 tank painted in LGBT colors vs a russian tank with a huge main gun just before the war too lol. An inclusive and tolerant nation has a military which knows that for all its technological might, it is truly strong for its acceptance of everyone despite their differences, making them all the more able and willing to defend their freedom. Russia trusts naked force, systemic violence, and cycles of abuse to carry the day and is now reaping the consequences. A Good Cartoon.
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Apr 4, 2022 14:56
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Failed Imagineer posted:Both genocide scholars and genocide deniers are united by a shared belief that the word "genocide" is a magic shibboleth that can induce people en masse to give a poo poo about horrifying atrocities. Personally I believe the word no longer has the kind of valence it had in the immediately post-WW2 era, partially due to countries like Israel turning the genocide dial until it broke off, and partially due to the internet age i.e. the abandonment of anything that we could confidently point to as consensus reality. Genocide is hard to pin down. Another lifetime ago I did a grad school genocide and mass atrocity class with a quant violence scholar where a lot of the focus was basically "is it possible to make an authoritative genocide dataset" answer: no... but I think one possible way we could define genocide is "Given that an action led to a conviction in a reasonably fair and free court for genocide, it was probably genocide". Under that definition: - RTLM was genocide, which means that efforts to use a media platform to justify mass violence via ethno-cultural erasure on the part of para-state media actors are genocide, which means that at least arguably Russian propaganda efforts could be investigated as genocide. The charge might not be sustained in the end because the broadcasts of the media are not directly accessible to the people doing the killing, but we're enough in the orbit that it could be investigated as such. - Srebrenica was genocide, which means highly localized mass-slaughter along ethnic lines of inhabitants of a town including children is genocide, which means that at least arguably Bucha could be investigated as genocide. The charge might not be sustained in the end because there's some threshold number, proportion, or manner of deaths that are needed, but we're enough in the orbit that it could be investigated as such. I am not sure if Russia's actions in Ukraine currently amount to genocide -- I could definitely see the counter argument for both cases I've brought up -- but I feel very comfortable saying they feel qualitatively and quantitatively similar to other actions previously legally found to be genocide. I don't think anything I've said here requires a particularly sophisticated or exhaustive definition of genocide, or even a forward-looking one.
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Apr 4, 2022 15:03
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https://ria.ru/20220403/ukraina-1781469605.html Eng choice quotes https://mobile.twitter.com/francska1/status/1510898134481788930
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Apr 4, 2022 15:04
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Quixzlizx posted:Are they really smart enough to see through western propaganda, or are they just disaffected from society and reflexively contrarian? Is a bitter, MAGA 20 year old Proud Boy who calls CNN fake news and guzzles down anti-vax Facebook articles pushed by Russia smart enough to see through western propaganda? Perhaps you're conflating process and results.
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Apr 4, 2022 15:08
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freebooter posted:My own 20yo-ish reading of A People's History was (while valuable) tempered by having recently visited the remembrance museum at Tuol Sleng and being very put off by the fact that when writing about the Mayaguez incident Zinn only referred to the Khmer Rouge as a "revolutionary regime" while painting the Americans as the only villains in the piece. Deeply disingenuous poo poo. It's important to remember that Zinn was an activist, not a historian. While A People's History was a necessary counter-narrative when it was published in 1980, it has since been lapped by American historical scholarship, particularly with regards to issues of race, gender, and imperalism.
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Apr 4, 2022 15:12
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gay picnic defence posted:I don't think insecurity was ever their issue, they just made a lot of noise about it because it's somewhat justifiable compared to "I want my empire back". It's probably fairly high on their priorities now even if it wasn't before. gay picnic defence posted:The fact that there's clearly been warcrimes and genocide taking place yet NATO/the west is still pussyfooting around the idea of sending tanks and fast jets to Ukraine for fear of escalating the conflict shows just how secure Russia really was and still is. Have NATO ever intervened because of warcrimes ?.
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Apr 4, 2022 15:13
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Comstar posted:Wargaming.net is leaving Russia and Belarus. They are closing their site in Minsk. I assume it's to do with a mass exodus of players leading to financial losses? I barely played either of their games before i deleted them in March and even then i never gave them money. Too busy enjoying Space Engineers to care anyways. 
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