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Gervasius
Nov 2, 2010



Grimey Drawer

Delivering weapons Serbia purchased from China months ago. No big deal.

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WAR CRIME GIGOLO
Oct 3, 2012

The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

Marshal Prolapse posted:

Nah just drone his rear end. Shows them they can’t protect anyone, even the top of the chain, so if you’re at the bottom, your “turbo hosed.”

Well yes that too. That's the hope as I've mentioned upthread this guy coming in will create more meetings of the minds which can then be droned. But if that doesn't happen fast enough we must win in the field.

hellotoothpaste
Dec 21, 2006

I dare you to call it a perm again..


so, the article says he swam for 2.5 hours, and according to the map scale went about 10 loving miles. That is insane, but also what I’d consider doing after what he says he saw of the theater bombing. :-(

Edit: Oh right, the map isn’t pointing out where he started, 10 miles did sound sort of impossible

ummel
Jun 17, 2002

<3 Lowtax

Fun Shoe

Alan Smithee posted:

uhhh I highly date this one consultant they are bringing in is going to unfuck their whole systemic necrosis

Seems to be official assessment too.

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1512580368469303301

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1512583390066847746

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Alan Smithee posted:

uhhh I highly date this one consultant they are bringing in is going to unfuck their whole systemic necrosis

Oh no that's not at all what I mean. I should've just quoted the article

quote:

For people like me, the organisation of the RFA is ‘simple’: Putin is the ‘Commander in Chief’, he is issuing orders to Shoygu, Shoygu to the headquarters of the responsible military districts (West OSK and South OSK), and commanders of military districts to commanders of field armies (GTAs, GCAAs, CAAs, and ACs). This is how the RFA is indoctrinated, organised, equipped and trained to work.
Now it turned out that nothing of this was the case so far.

Instead, and ‘faithfully’ along the principle, ‘let all the guys earn their medals’, Putin was issuing his ‘orders’ directly to commanders of field armies (note: Putin is never issuing clear and direct orders: that would make him directly responsible; instead, he’s commanding through ‘rough directives’, so that it’s always the recipient of these who is to blame if something goes wrong). Shoygu, MOD, West OSK and South OSK played no role in operations so far, except for monitoring the growing chaos around them… because, the result was that every commander of every single field army was running his own operation. There was no coordination between them.

Obviously, Putin’s orders were based on Putin’s political interests, Putin’s wishful thinking and illusions, not on military realities: every commander of every field army was ordering his troops to do exactly what he understood Putin demands, even if knowing that the mass of orders was not making any sense.

What a surprise then, the result was a total screw up. Airborne units of the 35th CAA were rushing in complete disregard for coordination with heavier, mechanised units of the 36th CAA — which was slow to follow up, and when it appeared, did not provide support. Eventually, battered units of the 35th ended in the back of the 36th (and the other way around), resulting in that ‘legendary’ traffic jam of their supply columns… Another example: the 1st GTA de-facto fell apart because the 2nd GCAA couldn’t care less about protecting its supply lines, and then the 2nd GCAA’s advance on Kyiv collapsed, and the 6th CAA was mauled by a single Ukrainian mechanised brigade — because the 1st GTA was neither there to protect the flank of its northern- nor that of its southern neighbour…

There was no coordination between RFA’s field armies at all. Each army commander was acting on his own, along ‘order from above’. Exactly like Keystone Cops…

BTW, this practice could be monitored all the way to operations south of Izium and in the Severodonetsk area of the last few days: remnants of the 1st GTA and the 20th CAA were rushed through positions of the 6th CAA with intention of ‘encircling the LOC’ from the north. Independently from this, the 1st AC was ordered to assault and conquer Severodonetsk: why trying to surround the place on one side, while assaulting it on the other — all at the same time? This is making no sense at all.

Obviously, there was no coordination at all between four involved field armies: each of commanders was following his own set of orders, and their units were providing no mutual support to each other…

(BTW, this is explaining even why all the ‘humanitarian corridors’ didn’t work. For example: how should anybody on the Russian side have coordinated exit of civilians out of Mariupol, if these had to pass through the areas controlled by the 1st AC, 8th and then the 58th CAA — if the three didn’t coordinate even their combat operations….?!?)

Now, I do not know who has managed that ‘feat’, but as of yesterday, the entire chain of command of the RFA was restored to what it should have been, right from the start. Henceforth, all the operations in Ukraine are to be run by a single, unified command. That is: the headquarters South OSK, commanded by Army General Aleksandr Dvornikov.

https://medium.com/@x_TomCooper_x/supplement-reorganisation-of-the-rfa-command-in-ukraine-d1bb674718fc

This obviously will not solve all of Russia's problems. It won't solve the decades of institutional rot and it won't solve the problem that Ukraine's military is generally better trained and more independent (and at this point much better equipped at least at the level of individual soldiers).

But it may address the total non-coordination problem between units issue, so we may see a lot fewer vehicle columns wandering around without air support type issues.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Alan Smithee posted:

uhhh I highly date this one consultant they are bringing in is going to unfuck their whole systemic necrosis

So, Major Ivanov. What would you say... you do here?

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

The Russian military stole the property of the fish inspection of the Kherson region

quote:

This was announced by Sergei Ilyin on his Facebook page.

"The world's first looting and terrorist forces in Kherson stole property belonging to the fish inspection. Namely, engines, boats and vehicles. Also, Russian looting troops are looting boat berths. They are stealing boats and motorbikes," the statement said.

Doesn't seem like the behavior of a group that plans to be there much longer.

alex314
Nov 22, 2007

They probably need that hardware to evacuate troops that are caught against Dnieper River.

Kaal
May 22, 2002

through thousands of posts in D&D over a decade, I now believe I know what I'm talking about. if I post forcefully and confidently, I can convince others that is true. no one sees through my facade.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Oh no that's not at all what I mean. I should've just quoted the article

https://medium.com/@x_TomCooper_x/supplement-reorganisation-of-the-rfa-command-in-ukraine-d1bb674718fc

This obviously will not solve all of Russia's problems. It won't solve the decades of institutional rot and it won't solve the problem that Ukraine's military is generally better trained and more independent (and at this point much better equipped at least at the level of individual soldiers).

But it may address the total non-coordination problem between units issue, so we may see a lot fewer vehicle columns wandering around without air support type issues.

It’s certainly possible that this will be the outcome, or alternatively the Russian forces will become even more static and dysfunctional as their C3 is made even more regimented. Or perhaps there will be political resistance as commanders object to being sidelined, or mass confusion as a poorly trained army of raw conscripts, irregular auxiliaries, and aged reservists try to grapple with a new command system. I think there’s real limits to how much anyone can predict right now out of such a chaotic military.

I have the same concerns about predictions that the northern Russian forces will take a particularly long time to reinforce the east, for that matter. Maybe they’ll take the time necessary to reorganize, or maybe they’ll just get loaded up onto Belarusian trains and shipped directly to the front lines before the troops figure out how to filter back into Russia. There’s a lot of possibilities and motivations that should be considered other than coordinating a quality military offensive.

Kaal fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Apr 9, 2022

Just Another Lurker
May 1, 2009

Pablo Bluth posted:

Apart from the video of a helicopter that might have been hit by one, there's been a distinct lack of attributable Starstreak appearances in Ukraine. Either they're not proving useful, haven't been deployed in great numbers, or it's been good opsec. NLAW seem to be the ones that have made a difference. One of the reminders from this war is that cheap and plentiful it itself a valuable quality (unless it's something Russian that's cheap, plentiful but badly maintained).

As far as i know they are the only weapons being manufactured in my area so i'm just cheering them on. :ukraine:

They are more towards the Stinger end of business than NLAWs plus i think they did not put into action as quickly... or they might be shite. :iiam:

Crow Buddy
Oct 30, 2019

Guillotines?!? We don't need no stinking guillotines!

Dapper_Swindler posted:

https://twitter.com/666_mancer/status/1511948583259545600

yeah, thats a not a good sign. like obviously people age faster and poo poo but if your sending someone my dads age off to die in some BTR, your not doing so hot. i assume part of the reason they are wearing masks is to hide the ages, either really young kids or old loving men and dudes who probably wouldnt qualify at all.

From a few pages back. Are these Ukrainian TDF (aux I hope) geezers or Russian geezers being sent to the front? I am guessing the latter but come on…

Roman Reigns
Aug 23, 2007

Crow Buddy posted:

From a few pages back. Are these Ukrainian TDF (aux I hope) geezers or Russian geezers being sent to the front? I am guessing the latter but come on…

They're Tuvan, an indigenous people that live in Russia.

Zedsdeadbaby
Jun 14, 2008

You have been called out, in the ways of old.

Crow Buddy posted:

From a few pages back. Are these Ukrainian TDF (aux I hope) geezers or Russian geezers being sent to the front? I am guessing the latter but come on…

I think they're Tuvan, same ethnicity as Sergei Shoigu, it's a rather impoverished area

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa
War is God's way of educating Europeans about ethnic minorities in Russia.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug
https://twitter.com/VeroWendland/status/1512831467256176640?s=20&t=lScJOG1-qvfPVNV5w0Bu1Q

Bug Squash
Mar 18, 2009

quote:

Instead, and ‘faithfully’ along the principle, ‘let all the guys earn their medals’, Putin was issuing his ‘orders’ directly to commanders of field armies (note: Putin is never issuing clear and direct orders: that would make him directly responsible; instead, he’s commanding through ‘rough directives’, so that it’s always the recipient of these who is to blame if something goes wrong). Shoygu, MOD, West OSK and South OSK played no role in operations so far, except for monitoring the growing chaos around them… because, the result was that every commander of every single field army was running his own operation. There was no coordination between them.
This is exactly how Michael Cohen described Trump's method for giving orders. Total lack of personal accountability, so it's always someone else's fault if they chose to accomplish your directive in an illegal manner. I would wager this is pretty common in any criminal enterprise. Pretty good for keeping the big cheese safe and feeling important, but utter crap at doing anything efficiently.

Hand Row
May 28, 2001

Bug Squash posted:

This is exactly how Michael Cohen described Trump's method for giving orders. Total lack of personal accountability, so it's always someone else's fault if they chose to accomplish your directive in an illegal manner. I would wager this is pretty common in any criminal enterprise. Pretty good for keeping the big cheese safe and feeling important, but utter crap at doing anything efficiently.

Eh it’s standard corporate behavior.

Kavros
May 18, 2011

sleep sleep sleep
fly fly post post
sleep sleep sleep

Dapper_Swindler posted:

https://twitter.com/666_mancer/status/1511948583259545600

yeah, thats a not a good sign. like obviously people age faster and poo poo but if your sending someone my dads age off to die in some BTR, your not doing so hot. i assume part of the reason they are wearing masks is to hide the ages, either really young kids or old loving men and dudes who probably wouldnt qualify at all.



Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Bug Squash posted:

This is exactly how Michael Cohen described Trump's method for giving orders. Total lack of personal accountability, so it's always someone else's fault if they chose to accomplish your directive in an illegal manner. I would wager this is pretty common in any criminal enterprise. Pretty good for keeping the big cheese safe and feeling important, but utter crap at doing anything efficiently.

also hitler too. he was big on long verbal poo poo and letting the upper and lower management figure it out.


Crow Buddy posted:

From a few pages back. Are these Ukrainian TDF (aux I hope) geezers or Russian geezers being sent to the front? I am guessing the latter but come on…



Russia. there is video of them. its in Tuva which is a poor southern region of Russia.



exactly.

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Pablo Bluth posted:

Apart from the video of a helicopter that might have been hit by one, there's been a distinct lack of attributable Starstreak appearances in Ukraine. Either they're not proving useful, haven't been deployed in great numbers, or it's been good opsec. NLAW seem to be the ones that have made a difference. One of the reminders from this war is that cheap and plentiful it itself a valuable quality (unless it's something Russian that's cheap, plentiful but badly maintained).

I think you might be equating ATGM's and MANPADS' too much because they're not that similar in capabilities or tactics. Here's a few differences that I can think of:

Deployment
ATGM:
- you generally have them along a frontline where they have a chance of being used against enemy vehicles
MANPADS:
- you have to sprinkle them all along your force, from frontline to rear echelon, because helicopters and planes can go around force concentrations and prefer soft targets in the back

Target availability
ATGM:
- Russia has thousands of armoured vehicles that make fine targets for Javelin
MANPADS:
- Russian helicopters that might venture near Ukrainian controlled area count in the hundreds

Enemy predictability
ATGM:
- wherever there is an axis of advance, you can expect to see enemy AFV's and lay ambush to them
- in prevailing conditions Russian vehicles mostly adhere to roads
MANPADS:
- air units can show up anywhere, giving little time to prepare
- air units generally try to avoid travelling on roads (although there have been exceptions recently...)

Counter-measures and tactics
ATGM:
- very few Russian vehicles have active protection systems (APS) that can hard kill missiles, and Arena is vulnerable against top attack ATGMs
- optically guided fire-and-forget missiles like Javelin and NLAW give no warning to tanks that have laser warning systems
MANPADS:
- helicopters and planes can drop flares to counter Stingers
- modern attack helicopters have warning systems if they are targetted with laser like Starstreak does, giving pilot some time to GTFO
- AA systems generally don't have to shoot a plane or helicopter down to be effective; if they make the enemy give up on approaching their target and go back to base or blindly fire rockets from afar that's good

ummel
Jun 17, 2002

<3 Lowtax

Fun Shoe

Bug Squash posted:

This is exactly how Michael Cohen described Trump's method for giving orders. Total lack of personal accountability, so it's always someone else's fault if they chose to accomplish your directive in an illegal manner. I would wager this is pretty common in any criminal enterprise. Pretty good for keeping the big cheese safe and feeling important, but utter crap at doing anything efficiently.

It's definitely mob boss leadership. I'm not speaking from authority on the subject, but it's why RICO became a thing.

Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013

The Malta Conference, anyone?

Alan Smithee posted:

uhhh I highly date this one consultant they are bringing in is going to unfuck their whole systemic necrosis

"There are no bad ships." A single leader cannot solve systemic and organizational issues overnight, but in military operations they can have a surprisingly strong impact over a surprisingly short period of time.

Remember a few weeks ago when I postulated itt that the major axes of advance weren't coordinating with each other, and that caused all sorts of logistical and operational issues? A couple posters even poo-pooed that such lack of coordination would cause issues. It turns out I was wrong! It wasn't the Fronts out of sync, but the loving Combined Arms Armies themselves! All of the things that general staffs are supposed to solve were being ignored.

I think Ukraine will hold, but I'll predict that the Battle of the Donbass is going to play out very differently than the Battle of Kyiv.

Ynglaur fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Apr 9, 2022

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!

Dapper_Swindler posted:

Russia. there is video of them. its in Tuva which is a poor southern region of Russia.

I don't think "southern" really captures the remote vestige of Russian empire that it is, it's tucked away amid distant mountains around the borders with China, Mongolia, and Kazakhstan.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

Intel: Putin may cite Ukraine war to meddle in US politics

quote:

Russian President Vladimir Putin may use the Biden administration’s support for Ukraine as a pretext to order a new campaign to interfere in American politics, U.S. intelligence officials have assessed. Intelligence agencies have so far not found any evidence that Putin has authorized measures like the ones Russia is believed to have undertaken in the 2016 and 2020 presidential elections in support of former President Donald Trump, according to several people familiar with the matter who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive findings.

But given Putin’s antipathy toward the West and his repeated denunciations of Ukraine, officials believe he may see the U.S. backing of Ukraine’s resistance as a direct affront to him, giving him further incentive to target another U.S. election, the people said. It is not yet clear which candidates Russia might try to promote or what methods it might use. The assessment comes with the U.S. electoral system already under pressure. The American public remains sharply divided over the last presidential election and the insurrection that followed at the U.S. Capitol, when supporters of Trump tried to stop the certification of his loss to President Joe Biden. Trump has repeatedly assailed intelligence officials and claimed investigations of Russian influence on his campaigns to be political vendettas.

Top U.S. intelligence officials are still working on plans for a new center authorized by Congress focusing on foreign influence campaigns by Russia, China and other adversaries. Avril Haines, the U.S. director of national intelligence, also recently appointed career CIA officer Jeffrey Wichman to the position of election threats executive several months after the departure of the previous executive, Shelby Pierson. “Our Election Threats Executive continues to lead the Intelligence Community’s efforts against foreign threats to U.S. elections,” said Nicole de Haay, a spokesperson for Haines, in a statement. “We’re also continuing to work to deliver on the legislative requirement to create a center to integrate intelligence on foreign malign influence.”
I wonder how Biden's admin can/will handle this.

PerilPastry
Oct 10, 2012
Sounds like Ukraine's talks with other countries re: security guarantees is prompting Zelensky to temper his expectations and take a more flexible approach:

"“All these different countries are ready to guarantee different things (...) . We do not need to have 40 countries that are ready to join and fight for Ukraine at the command. We do not need this; we need serious players that are ready for anything. We need a number of states that are ready to provide us with any weapons within 24 hours. We need certain countries, on which the sanctions policy depends, and such sanctions must be developed and written out. We need them to introduce everything at once, as soon as we hear a threat from the Russian Federation, within a day, or two-three days,” Zelensky noted."

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-po...cifics-yet.html

So much for demanding security guarantees stronger than NATO's article 5 (and support for their EU bid).

PerilPastry fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Apr 9, 2022

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Grouchio posted:

Intel: Putin may cite Ukraine war to meddle in US politics

I wonder how Biden's admin can/will handle this.

well they were able to pull all the various kill switches and mallware putin planted through out the net. i am pretty sure they will be way way more prepared this time.

Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013

The Malta Conference, anyone?

Grouchio posted:

Intel: Putin may cite Ukraine war to meddle in US politics

I wonder how Biden's admin can/will handle this.

Well, they could start by putting a bunch of traitors and insurrectionists (but I repeat myself) on trial. Give them a fair trial, of course. I'm pretty confident the evidence suffices to convict most of them.

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009
https://mobile.twitter.com/haynesdeborah/status/1512835320668168201

Marshal Prolapse
Jun 23, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I give you the Brimstone aka Sea Spear.

https://youtu.be/F1cS8zhweq4

Zwabu
Aug 7, 2006

Grouchio posted:

Intel: Putin may cite Ukraine war to meddle in US politics

I wonder how Biden's admin can/will handle this.

LOL like he wasn't going to meddle in any case.

PederP
Nov 20, 2009

Dapper_Swindler posted:

well they were able to pull all the various kill switches and mallware putin planted through out the net. i am pretty sure they will be way way more prepared this time.

Indeed, and there is also a limit to what Russia can do with the economy they have, especially post-sanctions. The Russian regime isn't the only actor (state as well as non-state) with a vested interest in US elections. And many of those actors have considerably deeper pockets than Kremlin. Even if Russia has proven exceptionally apt at manipulating and influencing the politics and public discourse of other countries, it still takes money, time and people to keep up the effort.

For what it is worth, I certainly don't think Wall Street and global capital interests want an isolationist president with pro-Russia bias. Kremlin has gone full anti-globalism. There is a lot of existing pro-Russian bias in the system in many countries, but I think it will fade as current and (sadly) future atrocities are revealed and create stronger anti-Putin, anti-Russian sentiments.

But lets see how this war ends. There may not be a President Putin to influence the next election. I have a hard time seeing the current regime remain in power for an extended duration. The Russian economy is broken, the war is a disaster for them - and it may yet get worse. I'm still tending towards a dissolution of the Russian Federation within a few years or the regime being replaced with a China-backed communist party taking over and introducing a parallel power structure.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Grouchio posted:

Intel: Putin may cite Ukraine war to meddle in US politics

I wonder how Biden's admin can/will handle this.

....he's literally been doing so for the last 10+ years?

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Grouchio posted:

Intel: Putin may cite Ukraine war to meddle in US politics

I wonder how Biden's admin can/will handle this.

I wouldn't trust that until AMD can confirm it

Marshal Prolapse
Jun 23, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Try it again Putin. This time NSA and Cyber command will not be restrained like they were with the last admin. :gritin:

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug
Have a bomb sniffing dog

https://twitter.com/nite0wl/status/1512855065102635015?s=20&t=lScJOG1-qvfPVNV5w0Bu1Q

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Enjoy every sandwich.

Smellrose
Good dog.

Kraftwerk
Aug 13, 2011
i do not have 10,000 bircoins, please stop asking


Saying his name as it’s written is even cooler. It’s Patron and depending on how you pronounce it it can be the tequila brand too.

Do we have any information about where the current status of the war is?

Has everyone just dug into fixed lines along the East with no major advances or battles now?

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

PederP posted:

Indeed, and there is also a limit to what Russia can do with the economy they have, especially post-sanctions. The Russian regime isn't the only actor (state as well as non-state) with a vested interest in US elections. And many of those actors have considerably deeper pockets than Kremlin. Even if Russia has proven exceptionally apt at manipulating and influencing the politics and public discourse of other countries, it still takes money, time and people to keep up the effort.

For what it is worth, I certainly don't think Wall Street and global capital interests want an isolationist president with pro-Russia bias. Kremlin has gone full anti-globalism. There is a lot of existing pro-Russian bias in the system in many countries, but I think it will fade as current and (sadly) future atrocities are revealed and create stronger anti-Putin, anti-Russian sentiments.

But lets see how this war ends. There may not be a President Putin to influence the next election. I have a hard time seeing the current regime remain in power for an extended duration. The Russian economy is broken, the war is a disaster for them - and it may yet get worse. I'm still tending towards a dissolution of the Russian Federation within a few years or the regime being replaced with a China-backed communist party taking over and introducing a parallel power structure.

i dont even think china will pick a communist party personally. they will probably pick whoever will take their cash and not make a scene. so possibly communist and possibly just boring Luka type assholes.

i dont think putin lasts the next few years honestly but thats just me.

smug n stuff
Jul 21, 2016

A Hobbit's Adventure

Kraftwerk posted:

Do we have any information about where the current status of the war is?

Has everyone just dug into fixed lines along the East with no major advances or battles now?

After RU took Izyum they haven't made much progress recently - ISW seems to think they're working on building up for a major offensive soon, who knows.

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Phlegmish
Jul 2, 2011



Kraftwerk posted:

Do we have any information about where the current status of the war is?

Has everyone just dug into fixed lines along the East with no major advances or battles now?

Last I read, the Russians were attacking the remaining Ukrainian-controlled cities in Luhansk Oblast, including Rubizhne. I don't know how that's been going.

Other than that, I think things have been quiet? The Russians are supposedly getting ready to launch a major offensive in Donetsk Oblast as well.

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