|
Worm overall worked for me, but Wildbow certainly has a ton of weaknesses. Race is the most cartoonishly obvious. It's weird that Worm clearly works to have a lot of racial (and gender and sexual) diversity in its cast, but then it's just wildly awful with it in peculiar ways.
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 04:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 02:12 |
|
|
i was convinced he was like, deeply rural European or something since the setting was right but all the details about it were so hilariously out of touch but last time we had this chat someone said he was Canadian
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 04:40
|
|
|
He's Canadian, but from a super rural part of Ontario
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 04:40
|
|
|
Rob Filter posted:Wildbow really hates drug dealers / drug users. I think it's more "the view of a sheltered nerd child about drugs" than someone with an ideological commitment to the drug war. My views about wildbow stuff are significantly more positive than many others in this thread*, but the way the drug users are presented in Worm is almost comically bad. The scene you describe is particularly egregious. Also the Asian gang, which I remember having a hilarious name like "Azn Bad Boyz" or something. * They're definitely not my favorite, but I think they compare favorably with most web serials, which usually are aimless and/or overly indulgent - with wildbow's stuff I at least get the feeling that the author knows where he's trying to take the story, with the exception of Ward (I think he probably knew where he wanted this to go, but kinda got lost on the way there in such a way that many earlier arcs feel pointless in the grand scheme of the plot). Other web serials frequently have a distinctly "fan-fiction-y" sort of feel to them, with characters speaking with a "contemporary real-world" voice (and often suffering from the issue of multiple characters flat-out having the same voice), and generally behaving and speaking in ways that are clearly intended to be satisfying to the reader in some sense (this is what I mean by "overly indulgent"). It'll also be clear that the author is more or less making things up as they go along (which can be fine if a series is specifically just aiming to be something like a situational comedy or romance, but frequently this isn't the case).
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 06:59
|
|
|
I don't think Wildbow had much of an idea what he wanted to do with Ward at all. I think he's mentioned developing the story for one of Victoria's buddies before deciding that Victoria should be the protagonist fairly late in the proceedings. Personally, I think he wrote Ward simply to shut down the people asking where Worm 2 was and also as a response to the general apathy towards Twig. Worm's fun, though. I think there's a nice sense of naivety about the story. Wildbow's just kind of writing what he wants and in some of the comments on earlier chapters, he'll admit that things that quite work out how he intended or wanted them to, and he'll base whole scenes and arcs around things that are just inaccurate. But I think you do get the sense that he wanted to write something, although nothing really cohered together until, I think, sometime around the Slaughterhouse Nine arc (at the earliest) and definitely around the time of Alexandria's death (at the latest.) There's a lot to like about it, but you've really got to enjoy it as this janky story that was basically written before a live audience. I think Pact is his best story in a lot of ways and Twig was interesting. But this one-two hit of Ward and Pale? Eeesh. It's a shame he's so satisfied with being a Reddit guy, though. I've always thought he could get published traditionally and make some big waves if he'd just take the time and energy to refurbish Worm. My time engaging with agents and publishers over the past year or so have only made that more apparent! But the worth of editing Worm is whole other discussion, and something I would've said was far more likely before Ward came into being.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 10:15
|
|
|
Huh, so BoC is hopping on the Kindle Unlimited train afterall. I know it's a very good deal for the authors but I always feel a little conflicted about it. Makes it harder to recommend things to friends when there's an actual entry cost, and I just know I'm going to be late to the party on some excellent novel or another and simply never try it due to not having the first volume. Which are both very selfish reasons, don't get me wrong, I'm just venting a bit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 14:53
|
|
|
Yeah, it's not something I subscribe to either so those stories are pretty much gone for me.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 15:01
|
|
|
Infinity Gaia posted:Huh, so BoC is hopping on the Kindle Unlimited train afterall. I know it's a very good deal for the authors but I always feel a little conflicted about it. Makes it harder to recommend things to friends when there's an actual entry cost, and I just know I'm going to be late to the party on some excellent novel or another and simply never try it due to not having the first volume. Which are both very selfish reasons, don't get me wrong, I'm just venting a bit. Look I hate Amazon as much as the next guy but who doesn't have Amazon prime in this day and age. Or even if you somehow don't, if you read any amount of cheap books a year, KU is worth it because it's cheaper than buying even cheap books. It's great value even if you only read one a month lol. If your friends don't even read that many books they're not going to read a web novel.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 15:37
|
|
|
Does Prime come with KU?
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 15:52
|
|
|
DACK FAYDEN posted:Does Prime come with KU? Yeah.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 15:56
|
|
|
Infinity Gaia posted:Huh, so BoC is hopping on the Kindle Unlimited train afterall. I know it's a very good deal for the authors but I always feel a little conflicted about it. Makes it harder to recommend things to friends when there's an actual entry cost, and I just know I'm going to be late to the party on some excellent novel or another and simply never try it due to not having the first volume. Which are both very selfish reasons, don't get me wrong, I'm just venting a bit. So, I write a somewhat-on-the-larger-side-but-not-the-biggest webnovel. My KU analysis suggested $100-$350k/year, probably somewhere in the middle. That is a loving stupid amount of money. I love having my story free, but even the low end of that analysis is too high for me to justify keeping my story entirely free, when that sort of money is dangling in front of me. I also have something of an inside track on BOC's deal, and I'd likely take it as well, even with the KU stipulation. For everyone writing for a living, we never know when the gravy train is going to end. Tastes could change tomorrow, and half my fans just leave for something else. Then I'm stuck high and dry with no income. I'm doing KU in large part because it'll pad my savings, and help tide me over until the next thing. Reentering the workforce with a 2, 3, 5 year gap on my resume, and that long NOT practicing my relevant work skills is going to be tough. I can't blame anyone for wanting to make a living, as much as it sucks for the readers.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 15:59
|
|
|
DACK FAYDEN posted:Does Prime come with KU? It doesn't. Prime Reading is a separate thing from Kindle Unlimited.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 16:15
|
|
|
Sailor Dave posted:It doesn't. Prime Reading is a separate thing from Kindle Unlimited.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 16:19
|
|
|
it's really hard to blame people for not wanting to be starving artists when i know so many artists who are y'know, starving. if you make that much money you better be tipping 100% whenever you go to a coffee shop to do your work, tho
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 16:22
|
|
|
On the plus side, you can just buy the kindle books directly. I don't do monthly subscription services, but most of these converted web serials cost about the same as just snagging a paperback at a local bookstore. Beware of Chicken is... five bucks, to buy book 1 without any subscription service involved. Not too bad
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 16:24
|
|
|
If you aren't giving an author money you have no standing to complain when they aren't giving you something for free. If you are giving them money then you're almost certainly past volume 1 already (and guessing that content is available on patreon as well), so you're not losing anything.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 16:24
|
|
|
If anything if you were a Patreon sub you should complain that new readers get to pay $5 instead of $5x10 months or whatever lol
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 16:34
|
|
|
Selkie Myth posted:My KU analysis suggested $100-$350k/year, probably somewhere in the middle. Wait, what? For one book, for a series, for what exactly? That's a hell of a lot more than I was thinking.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 16:45
|
|
|
TUTBAD 96- I am now more interested and invested in the plight of Bastlefolk than pretty much anything else about this world. I hope this becomes a sustained arc for Alfric because it will absolutely fit with how his life keeps going more and more off-kilter and that he's becoming more and more okay with that. Also he is gonna make some mistakes soon with Mizuki and I am here for how it all blows up 
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 16:49
|
|
|
DACK FAYDEN posted:Does Prime come with KU? no
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 16:54
|
|
|
mizuki must be protected at all costs
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 18:49
|
|
|
Zore posted:TUTBAD 96- This is opening the biggest can of worms in existence, but the whole bastlefolk thing is actually a really good ethical dilemma. The effort involved in raising a thousand infants, for only a single person to come into existence, I totally understand why society at large just wants to ignore everything about it. And even though society seems reasonably fair in this world, there have to be poor people that could use those resources better..., maybe? Honestly I don't have an answer but it is very interesting.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 18:50
|
|
|
Hungry posted:Wait, what? For one book, for a series, for what exactly? That's a hell of a lot more than I was thinking. My series. It's moderately large
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 18:50
|
|
|
A big flaming stink posted:mizuki must be protected at all costs Also Mizuki is literally my wife irl and when she speaks without thinking I lol
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 18:52
|
|
|
Selkie Myth posted:For everyone writing for a living, we never know when the gravy train is going to end. Tastes could change tomorrow, and half my fans just leave for something else. Then I'm stuck high and dry with no income. I'm doing KU in large part because it'll pad my savings, and help tide me over until the next thing. Reentering the workforce with a 2, 3, 5 year gap on my resume, and that long NOT practicing my relevant work skills is going to be tough. Yeah, it might be that we're still in the early days of a professional web fiction boom and anyone who's established now will be fine indefinitely as the growing size of the market makes up for diminished interest in specific authors. Much more likely though is that a lot of the people who are currently making a good living writing web serials today won't be in ten years even if they keep grinding away. There's just so much uncertainty about your long-term income as an independent author that I think you'd be crazy to pass up a big paycheck unless you have a very good plan B for when writing stops paying the bills.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 18:56
|
|
|
Peachfart posted:This is opening the biggest can of worms in existence, but the whole bastlefolk thing is actually a really good ethical dilemma. The effort involved in raising a thousand infants, for only a single person to come into existence, I totally understand why society at large just wants to ignore everything about it. And even though society seems reasonably fair in this world, there have to be poor people that could use those resources better..., maybe? Honestly I don't have an answer but it is very interesting. the bigger issue imo is dungeon delvers have huge incentives to engage in motivated reasoning that the products of a dungeon are always enemies to be exterminated or resources to be exploited. it makes things muuuuuuuuuuuuuch more complicated if there is the possibility that a person worthy of empathy can be created, so for the delver, they will always trend towards assuming that is not the case. difficult to make a man understand something when his salary depends on not understanding it and all that also from last chapter, isra talking with the bastlefolk about feeling out of place in the world had the most massive trans vibes i swear
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 18:56
|
|
|
Zore posted:TUTBAD 96-
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:12
|
|
|
I kinda hope TUTBAD just continues to pile up things that the story could turn into being about but never actually stops being about the crew going dungeon delving once a week.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:20
|
|
|
This Used To Be About Dungeons And It Still Is
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:20
|
|
|
(TUTBAD) Penelope watched as thirty seven babies died under her care, despite years of her best efforts and dedicating all her time to the task, and decided that this is what she's gonna do with the rest of her life. I admit, that's something that's hard for me to wrap my head around. I don't have the heart for it. I mean I generally wanna help people but talk about soul-crushing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:25
|
|
|
im glad that he's successfully kept the part I liked about worth the candle alive lol. The actual adventure was never terribly interesting, it was always the consequences.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:26
|
|
|
the real ethics question I think isn't what to do with the dungeons but rather whoever created the dungeons and allowed it to sometimes create sentients and sapients
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:28
|
|
|
well it wasn't joon at least, he put some effort in to his creation in the end
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:29
|
|
|
i think first contact is giving me mental illness btw. i love it so much.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:32
|
|
|
TUTBAD Someone on the discord pointed out that it would've been more than four years for Penelope since she's a chrononaut, and this also means she would be spending each baby's "final day" multiple times desperately trying to save them just to see them die over and over. Christ.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:34
|
|
|
Larry Parrish posted:the real ethics question I think isn't what to do with the dungeons but rather whoever created the dungeons and allowed it to sometimes create sentients and sapients How do you mean?
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 19:55
|
|
|
Even if we ignore the issues the dungeons have in implementation and the steadily escalating inequality they create, the idea of making an "eternal frontier" of targets to rob and exploit as an outlet for the rapacity of capitalism and the ambition of the young seems kinda sketch to me. Sure, if you were trying a utopian project and you wanted people to stop stabbing each other, I can see where someone might think of making a bunch of unpeople that don't count so the real people can gang up on them. But I think a society built on the assumption that there need to be exploited victims propping it up is pretty messed up! Those fundamental values will bleed into other aspects of how people treat each other.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 20:48
|
|
|
basically that. the dungeons seemingly exist to provide endless resources, but since they can sometimes produce sentients who basically only exist to be murdered, it means whoever made the dungeons therefore made sentients who only exist to get murdered. it's just a variation on the age-old if god is real, he has many crimes to answer for kind of question.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 20:56
|
|
|
Yeah but the editors explicitly aren't omnipotent and can't just make whatever changes they want, so I don't think going all Problem of Evil makes sense here. In story, dungeons don't exist to provide resources, they exist to keep magic from loving everything up, the resources are an (admittedly extremely important) side benefit. And so it doesn't make a lot of sense to me to talk about how ethical they were absent discussion of the alternatives. Like yeah, if the dungeons making sentients is something easy to prevent then yeah, it's unforgivable. If it's the magical equivalent of vaccine allergies then I think it's a lot more defensible. Patrick Spens fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Apr 19, 2022 |
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 21:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 02:12 |
|
|
It's 2022 and quote is still not edit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 21:17
|
|