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Official https://www.viz.com/shonenjump/jujutsu-kaisen-chapter-183/chapter/24344?action=read I just realized this reminds me of a Bobobo technique.
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May 8, 2022 16:38
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| # ? May 27, 2024 21:53 |
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This guy rules.
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May 8, 2022 20:01
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Yeah the whole smoke and mirrors around pachinko is to obfuscate odds and keep you chasing that big chance time. Pachinko parlors are sensory overload centers by design, which makes sense as a base for a domain
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May 8, 2022 21:32
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Lmfao the second I saw the video game characters at the start I started smiling, then lolling at Hakari's mini self explaining the rules. Also just glancing at the rules before I've read them has me I feel like this is the most Hunter X Hunter power I've ever seen including Hunter X Hunter powers.
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May 8, 2022 22:55
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yea hakari's powers are extremely nen
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May 8, 2022 23:12
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After the first page I immediately opened the wikipedia page for pachinko machines lol. Ironically also the conservative faction is wrong considering his Domain Expansion seems to be way more traditional than any other modern sorcerer's lol I'm mainly writing this out to get my own understanding of the chapter straight. My understanding is pachinko machines are just pinball machines without flippers where you hope the pinball lands in these little catchers that give a payout instead of falling into the gameover pit at the bottom of the machine. There are these pins the pinball can ricochet off and the catchers generally slowly open and close. It's mainly luck-based like a slot machine but arguably good players can adjust the force of the initial pinball shot as well time it to the catchers opening. I think this is what Hakari is saying at the end. His ability is luck based on the surface but with skill it's not nearly as up in the air as it seems. Like everything classic pachinko machines have been replaced by digital ones that are even closer to how slot machines work. All of the storyline stuff playing out is just playing while the probability is being calculated. It's the replacement for watching the physical pinballs ricocheting around the pins before seeing if they drop into a catcher or the game over pit. Every time Hakari uses his cursed technique (the sliding train doors or the ball he can fire) that counts as firing a metaphorical pachinko pinball. Hakari can choose to use the doors or the ball but the colour will be random. The colours from green to gold have increasing chances of getting him a good "spin", and that spin decides which Riichi scenario plays out. The Riichi themselves also have various success chances, from the super low chance to succeed one we first see to the 80% chance to succeed Riichi we end on. When a Riichi succeeds Hakari gets a Jackpot which gets him a bonus. A jackpot also gets him either increased probability of a jackpot or faster spins, and it seems like 75% of the time it's increased jackpot probability. If Hakari's "spin" generates rainbow coloured doors or a rainbow coloured ball it's an instant jackpot regardless of the Riichi. He also mentions getting a jackpot for four executive effects. I wonder if he means four of the same colour in a row or if he just gets a Jackpot every fourth spin. He also has some random luck boosters that can trigger at random to increase his chances of getting a jackpot even on lovely spins. I still have some questions about it but I think they can only be answered by seeing what happens after Hakari's next spin. The flowchart isn't clear if Jackpot is a mode as it specifies "normal mode" and the two steps after jackpot both flow back to jackpot rather than to Normal Mode. Why is faster spins good, does it mean he can use his attacks faster? Is he not able to use his technique during Riichi? How many spins does he get? After the Faster Spins options leads back to Normal Mode it mentions decreased spins. Does Hakari have a set number of spins he's allowed or is based on his cursed energy? e: Interestingly Charles is convinced once Hakari gets jackpot it's all over, so I'm assuming unlike us he knows exactly what happens when a Jackpot occurs. EmmyOk fucked around with this message at 23:49 on May 8, 2022 |
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May 8, 2022 23:44
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Once I understood all that matters is "this color foreshadowes a good chance" and this is literally a slot machine otherwise I got what was happening. But I had to read it 3 times. So much of the extra rules felt like information warfare, but thats what slot machines are too? Ah yesss you've triggered a THING and thus we do OTHER THINGS and see the shiny pictures! So lol its so convoluted its incredibly funny. I understood this power way better than STAR POSITION cursed technique. It also feels like a weird commentary on himself. Gege clearly loves games and manga, and the "you're ruining this manga with games!" felt very meta lmao.
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May 9, 2022 00:08
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Charles comment when he first meets Hakari about how the reasons for fighting in the culling game are negative but a battle manga needs something positive definitely felt incredibly tongue in cheek in post Shibuya JJK
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May 9, 2022 00:12
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From the explanation Hakari gets between 1 to 4 effect attacks (Balls or Doors) the more he does the higher chance of his scenario being good (Though that also depends on the colour that shows up) if he gets four attacks out or the Color is rainbow he will get a Jackpot. How many attacks he gets is random as the Richii has a chance to activate after any of the attacks. Edit: This means Hakari is probably most vulnerable when awaiting the results of a Richii as he does not appear to be able to make effect attacks while the Scenario is playing. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 01:07 on May 9, 2022 |
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May 9, 2022 00:53
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Also I like that Hakari and many of the newer domains we’ve seen have been less “I win end of story” and more “I have a significant advantage because I know the rules better.”
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May 9, 2022 01:16
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Bread Set Jettison posted:Also I like that Hakari and many of the newer domains we’ve seen have been less “I win end of story” and more “I have a significant advantage because I know the rules better.” It’s because it and Higaruma’s are old style Domains. Which are easier to create then Modern Domains which are lethal I win mechanics.
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May 9, 2022 01:21
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MonsterEnvy posted:It’s because it and Higaruma’s are old style Domains. Which are easier to create then Modern Domains which are lethal I win mechanics. I love that power creep is an actual real thing that has happened within JJK with Domains.
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May 9, 2022 01:26
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Electric Phantasm posted:I love that power creep is an actual real thing that has happened within JJK with Domains. Old Styles even fell out of favour, because the much more advanced Modern Domains would always overpower them. But this in turn lead to Domain Expansion becoming very rare cause everyone was trying to make it lethal and it was too hard for the vast majority of Sorcerers. This means an old style domain is now pretty useful because there are so few that actually know the version that would overpower it.
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May 9, 2022 01:32
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these kids today and their FTKs
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May 9, 2022 01:33
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dogsicle posted:these kids today and their FTKs
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May 9, 2022 02:16
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And then power creep became so bad they made simple domain to counter the insta hit effects. Which I’m guessing won’t be as useful countering old style domains. RULES FIGHT
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May 9, 2022 03:36
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Is pachinko just as unfathomable as this ? Thanks for the explanation on hat happened, because I think that's the first time where I genuinely just could not put the pieces together on how an ability works in a series. This is actually more complicated than any Nen ability in Hunter x Hunter and that series had an ability all about tax plus compounding interest baked into it.MonsterEnvy posted:Old Styles even fell out of favour, because the much more advanced Modern Domains would always overpower them. But this in turn lead to Domain Expansion becoming very rare cause everyone was trying to make it lethal and it was too hard for the vast majority of Sorcerers. This means an old style domain is now pretty useful because there are so few that actually know the version that would overpower it. I'm not sure this is accurate. The idea is that domains that better structured will overpower the other in a domain clash. Just because it's instant kill doesn't mean it will overpower a non instant kill one because it might not be as well constructed . The only reason instant kill ones take so much cursed energy to maintain and construct is because the requirement of the auto hit is a really hard condition to hit. But if the domain itself isn't as well put together, would it overpower the non instant kill one which is much more stable?
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May 9, 2022 03:40
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Modern Domains are stated as generally being more refined due to how advanced they are to create in the first place. They replaced old style ones cause they were just better. If Old Style ones were effective against them, they would not have been largely replaced.
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May 9, 2022 03:48
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Better to have a domain that lets you just immediately beat the opponent than one that just gives you an advantage that you can still potentially lose in which lead to the arms race to certain kill domains dominating.
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May 9, 2022 03:49
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I mean the only times we’ve seen someone use a domain to truly overwrite another is Gojo and Sukuna right? We’ve seen a lot more domains smooshing together Unless I’m forgetting something, and I probably am?
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May 9, 2022 03:49
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Yeah but this is in the case of fighting someone without a domain, you could potentially be on equal levels or close enough which I assume would've been far more common back in the day than it is now also.
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May 9, 2022 04:04
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MonsterEnvy posted:Modern Domains are stated as generally being more refined due to how advanced they are to create in the first place. They replaced old style ones cause they were just better. Nah Tengen specifically said that the instant kill techniques just became more popular and then that's all sorcerers were doing that because of how potent it was to have an instant hit so the old domains died out, but because it was so difficult to meet the instant hit condition sorcerers stopped trying to do them. I went back and re-read it to be sure, there's nothing there about them being more powerful than non kill ones, just much much harder to create. I mean it makes sense, if you can make something guarantee your ability hits, why wouldn't you make your domain do that.
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May 9, 2022 04:07
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Bread Set Jettison posted:I mean the only times we’ve seen someone use a domain to truly overwrite another is Gojo and Sukuna right? We’ve seen a lot more domains smooshing together Domains get into a Tug of War once they go against each other. The more Refined Domain (With amount of Curse Energy and Compatibility also being a factor) will win out over the less Refined one. When Dagon and Megumi's Domains clashed Dagon's was winning the Tug of War, it was just not so vastly superior the effect was instant like with Gojo and Jogo's battle.
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May 9, 2022 04:13
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For fun, I have decided to lay out Hakari's Domain in the simplest way I can as I understand it. Hakari's Goal is to get a Jackpot which gives him a currently unknown reward. The Domain first starts out at the Normal Stage where Hakari can make 1 to 4 attacks of two different types of his choice (Shooting Balls or Closing Shutters). After an attack there is a chance a chance one of four Scenarios will play out (Guaranteed if he does four attacks), and the Scenario will either fail and reset things to the Normal Stage, or succeed and give Hakari a Jackpot. The number of attacks he does along with the color of the attacks (Both of which are random) determine how likely he is to get a Scenario with a High Chance of success (The best one having an 80% chance). If he gets four attacks out without triggering a scenario, or the attack is Rainbow Colored the Scenario after the attack will give him a Jackpot. After getting a Jackpot he will 75% of the time increase his probability of getting another Jackpot, or 25% of the time increase the speed of his spins for a period of time (Which I assume means his attacks comes out faster) before going back to normal. By default an attack he makes has a 1 in 239 chance of triggering a Jackpot (But he is very lucky and says he has never needed more then 30 tries.) MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 04:35 on May 9, 2022 |
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May 9, 2022 04:31
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Bread Set Jettison posted:And then power creep became so bad they made simple domain to counter the insta hit effects. Which I’m guessing won’t be as useful countering old style domains. Yes, simple domains are just for countering insta-kills EXCEPT in cases like Fushiguro where it's more of a proto-domain and the user is in a situation where they can prop it into an incomplete domain.
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May 9, 2022 04:36
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MonsterEnvy posted:For fun, I have decided to lay out Hakari's Domain in the simplest way I can as I understand it. As far as I can tell this is concise and totally correct. The only additional thing is he also has some random events that improve his odds that can trigger so he can potentially jackpot during terrible spins. I think what happens post jackpot is a bit unclear still as well as the reduced number of spins he gets post speed up. However I think we have no way of knowing that until we see it next week.
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May 9, 2022 09:06
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Considering older domains were rule based and got supplanted in the Meta by one-hit kill domains I wonder how much of that was due to Sukuna. Malevolent Shrine might have been the first or at least first significant domain of the one hit to kill type. Considering Megumi's incomplete domain was able to tug of war with Dagon I'm not so sure that OHKO domains would be better than RB domains. Yes Megumi was going to lose and had others there with him but it's still an incomplete domain vying with one of the top level special grade curses. During the tug of war as well the one hit kill is no longer active. If you have a RB domain would your abilities be unaffected? Hakari for example in a domain tug of war would disable his opponents one hit kill which is the best part of creating and maintaining a domain while still getting to go for his jackpot. I suppose we need to see a domain battle between two people on more similar footing before we can really know how those fights go. We've only seen two and in both cases one participant was much stronger than the other. I've also been thinking a lot about a fight between 20 finger Sukuna and Gojo and curious how it would play out. It's specified a few times that the more refined or better constructed domain wins out rather than just the most powerful. Malevolent Shrine is also described as a masterwork equivalent to a painter creating artwork directly on the air instead of canvas.
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May 9, 2022 09:17
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I think the Domains = Sure Hit + Sure Kill thing only applies to sorcerers and not curses. Like, Mahito and Jogo and Dagon's domains only emphasized the Sure Hit part, the Sure Kill part was less from their domain and more that their cursed techniques were pretty much capable of killing you if they landed. Like Mahito's technique is a Sure Kill on a single touch, Jogo loving throws lava and meteors at you, and Dagon, uh, summons very toothy fish to bite you (still very dangerous as Nanami and co. can attest). Same for Sukuna, the Sure Kill part just comes from the overwhelming amount of damage he can put out, but that's just something he can do without his domain, it's just on a wider level because his domain works a bit differently (expanded range in exchange for letting people escape).
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May 9, 2022 10:20
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Though I guess it's more iffy with regards to Sukuna since he was a sorcerer first and a cursed spirit later.
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May 9, 2022 10:21
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I believe the term used through the manga from Shibuya on really is "guaranteed hit" rather than "guaranteed kill". People just use guaranteed kill because generally if you have your guaranteed hit you're going to win. Even Gojo's isn't a kill shot, certainly not anymore than Mahito's is. Megumi also using his incomplete domain is described as not yet being able to have a "guaranteed hit". The difference between guaranteed hit and old style domains is that the old style don't involve guaranteed hits, they just force you into following a set of rules.
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May 9, 2022 10:35
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Dagon had to split it's efforts among multiple people and injured them heavily while doing so,p Mahitos domain was just instant death if you're in it unless something removable is affected, Jogo attack got blocked by infinity but that's not really a knock against him.
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May 9, 2022 10:35
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ChaseSP posted:Dagon had to split it's efforts among multiple people Mahitos domain was just instant death if you're in it unless something removable is affected, Jogo attack got blocked by infinity but still hit. I think also when Gege wrote the Jogo fight he hadn't fully formed how Domain Expansion works. Gojo says any cursed technique is guaranteed to hit in there, which is basically true. However later it's described as your domain will have a "guaranteed hit" attack rather than anything you do in there being guaranteed to land. Jogo's really slow moving big rock always felt like an odd example of guaranteed to hit too. Whereas Mahito being able to transform your soul as long as you're in his domain or Dagon's piranhas only existing the moment they touch you are much easier to understand examples of guaranteed hits.
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May 9, 2022 10:39
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Also whoever said Charles falling for a really obvious romance manga true was on the money. It's really funny but also informs his character as a bad Mangaka really well.
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May 9, 2022 10:44
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Yeah I always interpreted it as “guarantee hit” but what that means is to the style and techniques of the user. That’s why smallpox’s domain “hits” by trapping you in a coffin under a giant rock where you have a few second to not die. Really the lawyer man domain is the only domain we’ve seen that doesn’t have some mechanic that leads to hitting the user in the domain itself. Instead it creates a rule that gives advantage after the domain. God I love rules fight Bread Set Jettison fucked around with this message at 14:17 on May 9, 2022 |
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May 9, 2022 14:15
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Given we're told that the rule download in Hakari's domain is part of his guaranteed hit. Any effect that the domain stipulates should count as a guaranteed hit so for Higuruma's trial things like "no violence" and the ability for Judgeman to read someone's history are part of his guaranteed hit.
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May 9, 2022 14:19
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It’s basically rules based vs lethal. All Disaster Curses Domains are of the Modern Lethal Style. Jogo’s mountain burns you by you being in it before he starts tossing Lava that will certainly kill you, Mahito always counts as touching you, and Dagon’s Shikigami are taking bites out of you before you can react. Hanami, Domain was probably similar.
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May 9, 2022 17:13
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Hakari's is a lethal domain because if he uses it on someone like Yuji their head will implode like Scanners when their brain gets the info dump
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May 9, 2022 17:53
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I want to have a curse technique that revolves around pinball now. Like I can summon flippers and bumpers as it's basic expression just like Hakari can summon shutters outside his domain. My Domain expansion is a scale recreation of an actual pinball playfield where a moderally sized pinball is shot onto the field and I have to keep it in play while targeting both the various holes and tarets on the playfield. Hitting the opponent would be a point modifier and my Sure-hit effect is that the opponent will reflect the ball as if they were a bumper as well as taking blunt force damage from being hit. I figure my domain always starts by assuming I have 5 balls before things like extra balls and multiball scenarios get triggered. Also, I can "nudge" the playfield (probably with a really powerful kick to the ground/wall) to try and angle some shots better but if I push too hard and trigger the tilt sensor it's an automatic dead ball. My Domain is called Black Knight: Sword of Rage based on the real life series of pinball machines and rocking the main theme from the older cabinets. If I manage to achieve a high score while the domain is active it will summon the black knight as a powerful Shikigami outside the domain for a limited duration to fight alongside me and I can summon a flail to attack with as well as detaching the spiked ball from to reflect around like a pinball.
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May 9, 2022 20:28
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my domain would give me a gun, which i would shoot the other person with wait gently caress thats already in the manga!! my domain would drop my opponent into a very tedious TVIV thread where all the posters have latched onto some inconsequential detail of a tv show and derailed all conversation to be exclusively about the inconsequential detail - it would be an "instant kill" domain because the other person would kill themselves immediately
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May 9, 2022 21:15
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| # ? May 27, 2024 21:53 |
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Domain expansion: Cleaveland Steamer
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May 9, 2022 21:51
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