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Jerkface posted:Leia taking over the backstory bit and then Obi immediately blowing it was great Haven't seen the scene yet, but I'm getting a visual of the bit from Lucifer where Trixie pretends to be Lucifer's kid so they go in the gifted kids school. Edited to add: drat I miss Lucifer and especially Scarlet Estevez as Trixie.
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Jun 1, 2022 20:57
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Galaga Galaxian posted:
I'll say it: I don't like it. In fact, I preferred the old days when "sexist too" was one of the many Imperial vices.
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Jun 1, 2022 20:58
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Sash! posted:I'll say it: I don't like it. In fact, I preferred the old days when "sexist too" was one of the many Imperial vices. The thing with the Empire is that almost anyone who isn't human is less than poo poo in their eyes. The Empire is "post-racial" because there are so many non-humans for them to piss on. That said, note that almost everybody in a position of power is still a white male.
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Jun 1, 2022 21:06
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If I do a little mental gymnastics it went something like Obi-Wan has PTSD and doesn't want to fight Vader, BUT I also think Vader letting him go was Vaders own PTSD, after burning Obi Wan for a while he kind of had a little Anakin flashback and pushed him out of the fire, letting him go was Vader also freezing up. If this is what they were going for, they could have telegraphed it a bit more. The next few episodes should be like a mirror version of each others stories, with them both clearing some past trauma (Obi getting over his guilt at turning Anakin into a cyborg monster and Vader letting go of all his Anakin parts and becoming fully Vader) and gearing up for their real big fight. All of this does kind of invalidate the Death star fight but there's plenty of retconning going on anyway.
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Jun 1, 2022 21:07
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Obi-wan's brother, Obi-waan.
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Jun 1, 2022 21:12
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Obi-two Kenobi
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Jun 1, 2022 21:16
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Jerkface posted:Leia taking over the backstory bit and then Obi immediately blowing it was great The TTRPG gamer in me can't help but hear the dice clatter during scenes like this where the character with all their juice in social skills playing the space princess cringes when the dude who filled in all the laser sword stuff on their character sheet to make a laser sword warrior monk hermit tries to "help" in a social encounter. In his prime Obi-Wan wouldn't have made such an obvious fumble but ten years of your only social outlet being barely making eye contact at the Meat Factory and weekly visits to haggle with a Jawa fucks with a guy. Everyone posted:The thing with the Empire is that almost anyone who isn't human is less than poo poo in their eyes. The Empire is "post-racial" because there are so many non-humans for them to piss on. That said, note that almost everybody in a position of power is still a white male. I actually think "evil warmongering empire, but inclusive" works great for our current cultural moment, TBH. https://twitter.com/USMC/status/1531994393950953472 Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Jun 1, 2022 |
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Jun 1, 2022 21:18
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Sash! posted:I'll say it: I don't like it. In fact, I preferred the old days when "sexist too" was one of the many Imperial vices. I'll say I don't like it because in the special editions Temuera Morrison redubbed all of the troopers lines and now it's just like so uh some stormtroopers are clones and others aren't? I'm not even a giant starwars dork and things like this annoy me to no end, I'm just asking for some continuity here.
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Jun 1, 2022 21:24
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Fried Watermelon posted:Obi-wan's brother, Obi-waan. His name is Owen and he grew up on the planet Stewjon. Dipshit! rear end in a top hat!
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Jun 1, 2022 21:27
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:I'll say I don't like it because in the special editions Temuera Morrison redubbed all of the troopers lines and now it's just like so uh some stormtroopers are clones and others aren't? I'm not even a giant starwars dork and things like this annoy me to no end, I'm just asking for some continuity here. Nah, he didn't - go look up a video of the mind trick scene on YouTube. It's got CG doodahs flying around but the voice isn't Tem, it's still the OG dude.
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Jun 1, 2022 21:30
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:I'll say I don't like it because in the special editions Temuera Morrison redubbed all of the troopers lines and now it's just like so uh some stormtroopers are clones and others aren't? I'm not even a giant starwars dork and things like this annoy me to no end, I'm just asking for some continuity here. He redubbed Boba Fett only. Also the entire big plot point of The Bad Batch is about the Empire moving to conscripted/volunteer troops
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Jun 1, 2022 21:33
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Alright my mistake then, I must have confused the redubbing Boba with redubbing all of them. Thanks for the correction.
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Jun 1, 2022 21:41
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Imagine thinking Kenobi would dominate the TV twitter conversation last week in a neck and neck race with Stranger Things.... And then they released all of this, while stranger things came out swinging. Ooof. Child Leia is fine. Petty jedi hunters are fine. The director doesn't know how to direct. and that fight scene... rough. Just... rough. Honestly, watching the first two episodes, thinking they were fine if a tad lukewarm, and then watching all of Stranger Things didn't do this 3rd episode any favors.
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Jun 1, 2022 21:45
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When they were in the One of the Good One Alien's truck with the Stormtroopers all I could think of was the Auralnauts Laser Moon dialogue. "Are you sure you're not a Jedi? Because I've seen a lot of Jedi and you literally look exactly like every single one of them. Well alright if you say you're not a Jedi I have to believe you. Have a nice day."
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Jun 1, 2022 21:46
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LionArcher posted:The director doesn't know how to direct. I don't think Deborah Chow is the issue. She's directed some of the best Mandalorian episodes. I feel like studio meddling and rewrites, probably budget constraints due to time and a whole host of other exec/studio-based factors might have had a hugely negative effect on the way Kenobi is playing out.
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Jun 1, 2022 21:50
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teagone posted:I don't think Deborah Chow is the issue. She's directed some of the best Mandalorian episodes. I feel like studio meddling and rewrites have had a hugely negative effect on the way Kenobi is playing out. Okay that's very fair. But I'm sorry, between the chase scene in last episode and the worst lightsaber fight in all of star wars in this episode... I just. throws up hands.
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Jun 1, 2022 21:51
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LionArcher posted:Okay that's very fair. But I'm sorry, between the chase scene in last episode and the worst lightsaber fight in all of star wars in this episode... I just. throws up hands. Yeah I dunno, I looked up the stunt coordinator for Obi-Wan and they worked on all the John Wick films and the guy was also the 2nd unit director on Kate and Birds of Prey, all of which had decent to great action. It's so strange lol.
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Jun 1, 2022 21:58
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Epi Lepi posted:
I thought they were doing another vision like they did earlier in the the episode with Anakin in his robes. Maybe it would've been a mental showdown with Obi learning to face his 10 year long trauma with his apprentice turned Hitler. No, let's bang sabers
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Jun 1, 2022 21:59
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teagone posted:Yeah I dunno, I looked up the stunt coordinator for Obi-Wan and they worked on all the John Wick films and the guy was also the 2nd unit director on Kate. It's so strange lol. The stunts were great though. Force push into saber lock, earlier when he's throwing/dragging hapless villagers around. Honestly on paper it all sounds good. Vader torturing people as an evil monster to draw him out. He's still reluctant to fight. Finally cornered, they cross sabers in a big open mine full of equipment and Ben, a broken man who's lost much of his Force connection, gets totally no-sold and dumpstered by Vader who torments him with flammable ore in a mirror of how he was left a decade ago, before he's rescued in a nick of time. It's just shot so loving DEAD. I would have to watch it another time or two to really drill down on how much of it is composition, editing, lighting, set design (seriously, you could have droid mining arms swinging around and all kinds of poo poo going on in a star war mining pit) but it sucks. Like, it's the second act fight where Obi loses, fine. But it doesn't have to look like dogshit and be visually boring. Oh, speaking of, did the Sabers look a little off to anyone else? It looked to me almost like they were LEDs with very little post work done on them. Like it's cool that they have the tech to bake-in colored lighting emitted from them now, but it feels like they maybe leaned into that practical aspect too much and they look a bit like toys? Am I off base here?
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Jun 1, 2022 22:05
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Owlbear Camus posted:Oh, speaking of, did the Sabers look a little off to anyone else? It looked to me almost like they were LEDs with very little post work done on them. Like it's cool that they have the tech to bake-in colored lighting emitted from them now, but it feels like they maybe leaned into that practical aspect too much and they look a bit like toys? Am I off base here?
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Jun 1, 2022 22:11
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Owlbear Camus posted:The stunts were great though. I don't think they were. I thought the choreography/action design was super boring and generic. Smoke and fire? Bad guy posturing? It all felt so very rote and boilerplate. Couple all that crap with a distinct lack of visual flair and that's just no bueno for me.
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Jun 1, 2022 22:11
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Owlbear Camus posted:
If you compare them to that bit in AOTC where Dooku and Anakin are fighting in a dark place, it seems they cranked up the brightness by an insane amount. I'm guessing they didn't light the surroundings better because they're just featureless piles of dirt, so the sabers look extra bright.
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Jun 1, 2022 22:15
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Owlbear Camus posted:
In some shots they reminded me a little of the anh sabers. I figured it was an on purpose callback
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Jun 1, 2022 22:22
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LionArcher posted:
Counterpoint: These episodes have been fine and were all better than anything in the hot garbage that was Stranger Things S4 (except episode 4 of Stranger Things, aka the only good episode.) I'm actually really surprised to see the backlash against this episode. I thought it was much better than the first two, and while I did have some minor issues with some of the events, the pros way outweighed the cons. Maybe my standards are just lower for Star Wars?
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Jun 1, 2022 22:24
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The makers of a forty-five year old cartoon ought to have laid down the formula. Doctor Who has the same issue with quite a few of its writers, but that franchise's hallmark is eternal changeability rather than "person from X bloodline with a glowing sword and bounty hunters"
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Jun 1, 2022 22:33
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I'm not too down on the fight and how it all played out. I can see Vader not going full-bore on Obi-Wan since he's only 10 years into being evil, I can't imagine Obi-Wan was giving him the fight he was hoping for, and he got whammied with heaps of triggering fire in front of him. By ANH he's got 9 more years under his belt to presumably get even stronger in the force (and adapt better to his wrecked body) and more fully embrace the dark side. It absolutely could have been done better, but I was pleasantly surprised to see him coming in and being a big factor in the story this early. I'm also a pretty easy fan to please. Give me one good (not even very good or amazing; although I'd prefer that kind of quality, I can get by on good) Obi-Wan/Vader fight at the end of the show and I'll be all set. Oh, and I'm calling something now: Obi-wan will fight with his eyes closed in his final fight with Vader, either by choice or because the circumstances of the fight have blinded him, representing his renewed connection to the force and relying on it to show him ~the way~. OldSenileGuy posted:Maybe my standards are just lower for Star Wars? This has pretty much been the best descriptor of my fandom for a long time. I've liked the setting, concept, presentation, and overall vibe of the various Star Wars media I've seen and both the legends and Disney-canon books enough that I'm willing to look past a lot of the low-quality elements of Star Wars to find stuff to enjoy and geek out about. Every once and awhile stuff comes along that works on every level for me personally like any book Zahn writes with Thrawn in it, just about any Star Wars space battle (they usually rock to me no matter what media they're in), or real fun force stuff. Or sometimes there's just really good people involved in the creation of a piece of Star Wars, like with Empire Strikes Back or Mando, and that makes it easy to enjoy because it's just plain good. I just generally give the properties I like a LOT more leeway to not offend me with their obvious flaws than the ones I don't. I feel like everyone does that to some degree, but I definitely think I do it all the time with Star Wars. I know for drat sure I'll be doing that with Rogue Squadron when that movie comes out, since I was a big fan of the Legends books and it's bound to have some insane space combat in it. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jun 1, 2022 |
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Jun 1, 2022 22:35
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NowonSA posted:I can see Vader not going full-bore on Obi-Wan since he's only 10 years into being evil, I can't imagine Obi-Wan was giving him the fight he was hoping for, and he got whammied with heaps of triggering fire in front of him. We see Vader commit some needlesly cruel murders to draw out Obi-Wan. He also killed younglings before he got in the suit remember? And he intentionally lights the fire himself to drag Obi-Wan through it first, lol. If they wanted to convey Vader having a triggered moment the 2nd time the pile of space coal or whatever was set ablaze, they certainly could have done that better.
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Jun 1, 2022 22:39
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OldSenileGuy posted:I'm actually really surprised to see the backlash against this episode. I thought it was much better than the first two, and while I did have some minor issues with some of the events, the pros way outweighed the cons. It was... fine, but Mando has set a high bar for Star War TV and Vader/Obi crossing blades again needs to be more than just "fine." The expectation is for some kind of setpiece at least, not some dark shots in a gravel pit you were able to use because your great uncle left the gate unlocked for you after the shift whistle blew Friday night.
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Jun 1, 2022 22:43
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I just assumed that Vader thought Obi-Wan was alone, and therefore once he was captured, he planned to bring him in for torture or whatever. But then when Obi-Wan clearly had help, Vader called an audible and decided to let Obi get "rescued" to hopefully lead him to whoever is helping him (presumably other Jedi?) I guess if the next episode starts with Vader/Inquisitors saying "welp, we have no idea where obi-wan went" then we'll know that's wrong. EDIT: It's kind of "a thing" in star wars for the Empire to let their enemy escape so they can lead them to the bigger fish
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Jun 1, 2022 22:45
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I think it might be safe to assume Vader's built this confrontation up in his head and perhaps seeing Obi-Wan scared and frail is muddling his thoughts a bit. On one hand he's angry that his confrontation isn't what he's expected, maybe even disgusted that Obi-Wan's skills have blunted/"he's been taking it easy" while Vader has suffered every day since their last fight. Maybe even a tiny part of the back of his head hears his friend in pain and it made him hesitate. I'll admit I'm very much making excuses for the show at this point.
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Jun 1, 2022 22:46
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OldSenileGuy posted:Counterpoint: These episodes have been fine and were all better than anything in the hot garbage that was Stranger Things S4 (except episode 4 of Stranger Things, aka the only good episode.) Edit, I don't agree and the show (star wars) is just not very good. I'm sad. I loved Mando. I liked BF, warts and all. But this just feels... overly noted. LionArcher fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jun 1, 2022 |
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Jun 1, 2022 22:49
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Owlbear Camus posted:Vader/Obi crossing blades again needs to be more than just "fine." I guess I was ok with it because to me it seemed like the appetizer, not the main course. Someone else in the thread already mentioned - I was pretty surprised to get this much Vader this early in the series as it is. I kind of assumed his appearances at the beginning of this episode would be it for this episode, to slooooooooly tease out the confrontation. So to have a bonus confrontation already is icing on the cake. I guess I'll feel differently if they don't have another big fight in the series, but that seems unlikely?
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Jun 1, 2022 22:49
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OldSenileGuy posted:I guess I'll feel differently if they don't have another big fight in the series, but that seems unlikely? They have to, otherwise if that was it then lol. Obi-Wan also needs to make some sarcastic comment about Anakin never really being a Jedi master during their fight, otherwise what is the point of this show? 
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Jun 1, 2022 22:51
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teagone posted:We see Vader commit some needlesly cruel murders to draw out Obi-Wan. He also killed younglings before he got in the suit remember? And he intentionally lights the fire himself to drag Obi-Wan through it first, lol. If they wanted to convey Vader having a triggered moment the 2nd time the pile of space coal or whatever was set ablaze, they certainly could have done that better. Yeah, it's a small distinction but Vader's definitely progressed enough down the path of evil that he'll kill kids or innocent people or really almost anybody if he thinks it's necessary to accomplish his goals. However, Obi-Wan's like a father and a brother all rolled up into one for him, so I totally buy the idea that when push comes to shove he's not as willing to kill or torture Obi-Wan as he thought he was, but that conflict in him is resolved by the time of ANH. We also know from Vader trying to turn Luke to the dark side that he's not a pure vengeance driven murder machine, and will try to take other paths or actions with those he cares about. Him being spooked by fire is just the obvious audience interpretation of the dynamic there. I'd also imagine that it's more the act of burning his own master that got to him more than the fire itself. That seems like it could've been a "yes I'm doing to him what he did to me!" start that led into "wait I know how much this sucks and I really don't like hearing it, lets push him away and do something else to him." Letting Obi-Wan go so he leads them to more people Vader wants to catch makes sense too. I bet they won't actually explain what exactly was up with Vader there though, since that seems to be the general level of writing quality Star Wars is at lately, and I'm sure they want to play it off like "well what do YOU think he was thinking there?" or "Yeah we just thought that wall of fire sure blocked Vader off from him completely and he had no way to get to him!" As Nero Danced posted:I'll admit I'm very much making excuses for the show at this point. Definitely plenty of that going on with me, so we're in this together! I call dibs on being the Jedi Master of Star Wars Apologism, but you can be my Padawan. Defending this show if we don't get another Obi-Wan/Vader showdown is beyond even my abilities though. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Jun 1, 2022 |
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Jun 1, 2022 22:57
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They hosed up the fight by not making it obvious enough Vader purposely let Obi go. Or that it was some ptsd trauma poo poo as to why he froze and did a cool stare. It's too ambiguous and many are taking it like he was somehow defeated by the logistics of getting around a medium size fire which is actually a funny interpretation and i stand corrected. Also, I loved the whole episode. Vader's throne room had massive bare CGI prequel vibes hell yeah, the whole thing felt weird in s prequel kind of way and that is my favourite SW.
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Jun 1, 2022 22:59
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I really liked this episode. Vader straight up killing innocent people shows you how far gone he is and how scary he is. Just breaking that kid's neck so quick. drat. Looking forward to the next episode.
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Jun 1, 2022 23:00
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I hope whatever line Obi has to Vader in their final confrontation is good. Something like "you're no Master. Underneath it all you're still just a scared little padawan learner" and then does whatever he does to dunk on Vader and win the fight. Only because it paints a picture in my head of Vader spending the next decade in a Costanza-like rage trying to come up with the perfect "jerk store" comeback. Then when he finally thinks he has the comeback and hits Obi-Wan with "NOW I AM THE MASTER", Obi-Wan drops the perfect "Only a master of evil, Darth" comeback and turns that moment into a huge dunk on Vader OldSenileGuy fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Jun 1, 2022 |
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Jun 1, 2022 23:01
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We'll also never see a Vader that's as entertaining in concept/execution/actual legitimately interesting character stuff as Darth Vader, early 20's from the Story Draft podcast, or as insane on the screen as he is in comics or video games, so I'm just kind of settling for what I can get here.
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Jun 1, 2022 23:03
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Yeah pretty disappointed in this. So much of it just seems half-assed. One thing that they could have had some fun with was Obi-Wan's whole look. The first blue outfit was kinda ok, but then he goes on the mission and puts on a boring jedi outfit? He stands out like an idiot - everyone else on that whole planet had a cooler outfit than him. He puts his hood up for a few seconds but it doesn't cover poo poo! Then next scene he has it down again haha. And why the gently caress does he have the same haircut and beard? It would have been cool with buzzcut Trainspotting Ben  One part I liked was when the inquisitors had that big sloth-looking thing in the lineup - that was kinda funny. He looked so bummed!
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Jun 1, 2022 23:03
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OldSenileGuy posted:I hope whatever line Obi has to Vader in their final confrontation is good. Something like "you're no Master. Underneath it all you're still just a scared little padawan learner" and then does whatever he does to dunk on Vader and win the fight. Speaking of, I kind of like how in the original movie he calls him Darth, like it's his first name, but after all that's been built up about the Sith Lords and the Darth title, it sounds like he's saying it derisively and almost dismissively. Obi-Wan is a master of ragging on everyone.
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Jun 1, 2022 23:05
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