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"And to think I actually kissed him!" I love Nena, girlboss
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Jun 14, 2022 17:50
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 Saji's life ain't going well.
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Jun 14, 2022 19:16
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the biggest gundam kill counts probably are something like 1. original turn-a and turn-x pilot 2. Gihren Zabi 3. Char (counting fifth luna) 4. Haman Karn (Might be tied with char). 5. quattre. Not counting the SRA from gundam-x since they seem noticeably less autocratic than zeon. also I didn't watch seed or victory.
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Jun 14, 2022 20:07
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The villains from 00 S2 vaporize a couple of small countries and directly caused a bunch of death by shooting the orbital elevator with the Memento Mori, so either Ribbons or Arthur Goodman(depending on if you give Ribbons credit as overall commander or Goodman credit as on-site commander) are probably ahead of Haman and Char.
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Jun 14, 2022 20:30
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The blue cosmos guy from destiny blew up 3 cities and destroyed like 5 colonies with the super laser. I'd put him in the top 3.
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Jun 14, 2022 20:56
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Did the Devil Gundam actually kill anyone or did it just walk around menacingly
War and Pieces fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jun 14, 2022 |
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Jun 14, 2022 21:05
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Stairmaster posted:the biggest gundam kill counts probably are something like 1. original turn-a and turn-x pilot 2. Gihren Zabi 3. Char (counting fifth luna) 4. Haman Karn (Might be tied with char). 5. quattre. I mean, Gihren and the Turn A pilots, sure, but this is for military hardware, not civilian targets. Gihren gets points for the solar ray, but Operation British mostly just killed random people standing around, not tanks and Mobile Suits. Haman and Char's big attacks were on soft targets. (Honestly, I feel like the video counting Gato is cheating. Superweapon kills don't have any style.) War and Pieces posted:Did tyr Devil Gundam actually kill anyone or did it just walk around menacingly It zombified most of Shinjuku, wiped out most of the MS team sent to capture it, and seemed to blow up some of the Gundam army sent to fight it in the finals.
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Jun 14, 2022 21:11
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murder is murder my man
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Jun 14, 2022 21:37
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Stairmaster posted:murder is murder my man What if the ones doing the murder are just super adorable and like eating cake?
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Jun 14, 2022 21:39
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Waffleman_ posted:
Saji doesn't get much breaks.
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Jun 14, 2022 21:49
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If we only got Military targets for UC it's like Gihren and Revil with Solar System and Colony Laser Bright with the Gryps Uso with the Keilas Guile And then like, Iron Mask with the Rafflesia?
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Jun 14, 2022 21:55
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Stairmaster posted:murder is murder my man First, second, and third degree classifications disagree with you. What's more, pilot scorecards tend to be based on how many planes they take down. Giving people points for firing a superweapon is bad enough, but having it count civilian fatalities undermines the whole sport of the thing. Might as well give an award to Agnika Kaieru's dad for inventing the killbots that wiped out 25 percent of an interplanetary civilization. (Heck, given that Gjallarhorn apparently makes Ahab reactors near a star other than Sol, PD humanity might be interstellar.) Zedd posted:Saji doesn't get much breaks. And he doesn't deserve them.
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Jun 14, 2022 21:59
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Waffleman_ posted:Saji's life ain't going well. You could say that about Saji at any point after about episode 5 and it'd be accurate, from what I remember of the show. He's a poo poo magnet, and at some point it stops having any real emotional impact because so much bad poo poo keeps happening to someone so apparently ordinary. Which kind of detracts from the whole "view of how Celestial Being's war fucks over the average person" thing. Stairmaster posted:the biggest gundam kill counts probably are something like 1. original turn-a and turn-x pilot 2. Gihren Zabi 3. Char (counting fifth luna) 4. Haman Karn (Might be tied with char). 5. quattre. We're never given any indication what the original use of the Turn X was, how much action it saw etc. It might have been a one off unit that wiped out a dozen civilizations before it was lost, or it might have been a mass produced unit mostly used to trim hedges in a really ostentatious way for all we know. The pilot of the Turn X on Earth in the past of Turn A itself was trying to stop the Turn A from wiping out civilization and lost, so they're unlikely to have commit any genocide. Also, I'm pretty sure the colony that Quattre destroyed in the Wing Zero is noted to be empty. So he didn't kill a notably high number of people. Stairmaster posted:murder is murder my man Kill counts for military purposes aren't about murder though; they're about taking out enemy military units and preventing them from impacting the battle. So even Kira's pacifist action of disabling units by removing weapons/limbs etc. are "kills", while Sven gunning down infantry in his mobile suit doesn't count towards his kill count. poo poo, a week or three back people were arguing that only mobile suit kills counted, and even taking out tanks, planes etc. doesn't add to your kill count. Gihren has no kill count because of it, at least within the way the term is normally used. He certainly killed the greatest number of people, probably more than the Turn A pilot even, given the colonies are noted in show to have left before the Turn A acted in CC's history, while 4 entire Sides were destroyed on Gihren's order, but the term "kill count" doesn't usually refer to that kind of thing regardless. Honestly, I'm not sure that anyone else in the entirety of Gundam is even in the same ballpark of death they directly caused as Gihren, because he was directly responsible for the death of nearly half of humanity, normally held to be around 4 to 5 billion people, inside one month. That's an insane number of people, and is likely more people dead in one go than every war in history put together. It's a number probably only rivaled by the total death count of diseases like malaria, and that's had thousands of years to do it. While Gihren, again, took a month. Maybe less. tsob fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Jun 14, 2022 |
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Jun 14, 2022 22:00
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Is Gihren singularly responsible for the death count of the first month OYW or did the federation go nuts with the nuking colonies or something? I can't remember.
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Jun 14, 2022 22:18
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If we want to get pedantic (and we do) it's always stated that both Zeon AND the Federation are responsible for killing half of humanity. So you gotta give him a fraction of those kills, probably like 1/2 to 2/3rds of the death count so like 1/4th-1/3rd of humanity. Edit: I don't think it's explicitly stated what the Federation exactly did in this period. I'm assuming they went ham with their navel superiority War and Pieces fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Jun 14, 2022 |
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Jun 14, 2022 22:25
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I can't believe the Doan's Island remake of all things is the most I've enjoyed of animated Gundam content in at least 10 years. Good work, Yas.
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Jun 14, 2022 22:34
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War and Pieces posted:If we want to get pedantic (and we do) it's always stated that both Zeon AND the Federation are responsible for killing half of humanity. So you gotta give him a fraction of those kills, probably like 1/2 to 2/3rds of the death count so like 1/4th-1/3rd of humanity. It's not really. The narrator for the original show says that both sides are responsible, but the visual as he says so is of Zaku IIs and Salamis Cruisers guarding a colony as it's about to fall, after we see Char's Salamis fire on an undefended colony. The novel, the original setting notes, data books etc. all agree that Zeon deliberately targeted and killed the residents of Sides 1, 2, 4 and 5 too. With words like "unilateral", "slaughter" etc. used to describe their actions. Fans like to guard a mental image of fleets of Federation ships against hordes of Zaku IIs all firing off nukes in blind desperation in the middle of the colonies, and them all being destroyed by unintentional crossfire, but it's not actually supported in any real way. It's just something that's built up based of what people imagine the opening narration taken entirely on it's own to mean.
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Jun 14, 2022 22:35
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Musai, not Salamis. Salamis are Feddie warships. What was Zeon's prewar-January 0079 population? 100 million?
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Jun 14, 2022 22:38
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The original show/movies established that the war itself never actually touched Side 3, so their during war numbers are virtually identical to their pre-war numbers. Which the narrator quotes as being 150 million people at one point. I've always wondered if that's a mistranslation like the "both sides lost nearly half their population" line in the opening narration though, because 150 million is a tiny population for an entire Side. It'd mean there'd be about 4.2 million people per colony cylinder, assuming Side 3 had 35 cylinders as per the setting document. The same document which says that a colony can hold 36 million people. And that's an open-type colony, with transparent walls for half it's surface area. Side 3 used closed type colonies that supposedly could house twice the population because it used that "land" for housing instead of lakes, light etc. So they should be able to hold 50 million or more people. Mind you, O'Neill colonies are generally thought to be capable of holding a population of about 5 to 10 million people in reality (or, at least, in thought experiments and whatnot) but Gundam often ascribes higher numbers regardless, so 4.2 million people even in an open type colony seems miniscule. It's also worth remembering that the population numbers in UC aren't really well documented either. The pre-war number of about 11 billion throughout the Earthsphere is based on some figures in the original setting notes, but even they give the figure as being in UC0050, so it's probably closer to 12 billion by UC0079 when the war takes place. At least, if those numbers are held to be accurate, which a lot of sources seem to use them now so they probably are what Banrise is using, regardless. That all said, data books and so on often put Side 3's population at about 1 to 2 billion instead of the 150 million in the sub/dub, so that's probably a better figure regardless. If you go by that, then you could extrapolate the other Sides to have roughly similar figures, so 2 billion at Side 3, 1 billion at 5 other Sides for a total population of 7 billion people in the Sides and 4 to 5 billion on Earth. Zeon's slaughter of 4 Sides plus the colony drop would then have killed about 5 to 6 billion people, assuming 1 to 2 billion died in the colony drop or direct aftermath (tsunamis, starvation etc). Which is generally consistent numbering for the death toll. tsob fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jun 14, 2022 |
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Jun 14, 2022 23:00
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Monaghan posted:Is Gihren singularly responsible for the death count of the first month OYW or did the federation go nuts with the nuking colonies or something? I can't remember. in the sense hitler is responsible for deaths in europe from wwii yes quote:Mind you, O'Neill colonies are generally thought to be capable of holding a population of about 5 to 10 million people in reality (or, at least, in thought experiments and whatnot) why not just build a bigger o'neil cylinder
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Jun 14, 2022 23:03
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Stairmaster posted:why not just build a bigger o'neil cylinder The size of the cylinders O'Neill designed were based on material strengths etc. so far as I know, and Gundam adopted those dimensions. There have been designs that just upscaled them, like the McKendree Cylinder put forward by someone for NASA's consideration in 2000. It uses carbon nanotubes instead of steel, so while an O'Neill cylinder measures 6km by 36km and has about as much livable land as Hong Kong (roughly 500km squared), a McKendree Cylinder measures 460 km by 4,600 km and contains 13 million km squared living space, giving it a livable area equivalent to the size of Russia. tsob fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Jun 14, 2022 |
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Jun 14, 2022 23:09
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tsob posted:That all said, data books and so on often put Side 3's population at about 1 to 2 billion instead of the 150 million in the sub/dub, so that's probably a better figure regardless. If you go by that, then you could extrapolate the other Sides to have roughly similar figures, so 2 billion at Side 3, 1 billion at 5 other Sides for a total population of 7 billion people in the Sides and 4 to 5 billion on Earth. Zeon's slaughter of 4 Sides plus the colony drop would then have killed about 5 to 6 billion people, assuming 1 to 2 billion died in the colony drop or direct aftermath (tsunamis, starvation etc). Which is generally consistent numbering for the death toll. The most amazing thing for me about the UC is that, just 13ish years after the One Year War, despite Gryps and 30 Bunch and the Dublin Drop and so on... the Spacenoid population is back up to 10 billion. For context, at the fastest rate of global population growth, going from 5 billion people to 10 billion would take 32 years. That's the absolute peak of 2.2%, back in '62. Meanwhile, the lowest estimate I can get for UC population growth is 2.5%. Conclusion: UC humanity is very horny.
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Jun 14, 2022 23:15
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I mean, how else do you explain names like Four Vaginas, Full Frontal and so on?
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Jun 14, 2022 23:19
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Those are both the same guy kinda.
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Jun 14, 2022 23:20
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chiasaur11 posted:
*Newtypes are very horny.
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Jun 14, 2022 23:23
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BjRJORXk1k
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Jun 14, 2022 23:26
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I choose to believe this is all setup and he's planning to headshot Mayor McCheese with a bazooka.
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Jun 14, 2022 23:27
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War and Pieces posted:*Newtypes are very horny. Nah. Kira and Lacus don't even sleep in the same bed. Meanwhile, Bright in ZZ can't care about anything besides eventually getting home to his family, and he still has to use all his willpower to avoid cheating on his wife. This is a UC humanity in general thing.
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Jun 14, 2022 23:30
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I'm not a big fan of Pro-Zeon works, for the same reason someone might not be a fan of the Historiographies of WW2 that portray the Wehrmacht and SS as "Noble Soldiers, fighting with Honor against the Slavic Hordes, who only lost because of superior numbers and the allies cheating by having more industry." EDIT: It's also really loving weird how Kira and Lacus are too pure to have sex together, while Lacus sleeps in a bed surrounded by young children.
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Jun 14, 2022 23:37
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Fivemarks posted:I'm not a big fan of Pro-Zeon works, for the same reason someone might not be a fan of the Historiographies of WW2 that portray the Wehrmacht and SS as "Noble Soldiers, fighting with Honor against the Slavic Hordes, who only lost because of superior numbers and the allies cheating by having more industry." The tragedy of the setting is that the Spacenoids we're 100% right to rebel, they just had the bad luck/complacency of getting saddled with horrible leadership. It's something like the Islamic Revolution in Iran or all those wars of decolonization that ended up in Tin Pot Dictatorships. Ultimately the Federation is responsible for all the misery of the UC so it's easy to fall into the trap of rooting for Zeon.
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Jun 14, 2022 23:48
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chiasaur11 posted:The most amazing thing for me about the UC is that, just 13ish years after the One Year War, despite Gryps and 30 Bunch and the Dublin Drop and so on... the Spacenoid population is back up to 10 billion. If it's just Spacenoid population that that's measuring, it is probably helped by people emigrating from Earth.
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Jun 14, 2022 23:48
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Tickles my fancy just a little bit that he’s promoing a special red burger and a special 3x burger
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Jun 14, 2022 23:51
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Fivemarks posted:EDIT: It's also really loving weird how Kira and Lacus are too pure to have sex together, while Lacus sleeps in a bed surrounded by young children. And Kira already slept with Flay. It's part of SEED's confusing approach to horniness in general. The UC frequently has people naked because UC humanity is even more into sex than warcrimes (and they love war crimes). It's part of a unified setting, SEED, meanwhile, has lots of nudity and bouncing, but it doesn't really lean into it as a thematic element. It's just... there. WrightOfWay posted:If it's just Spacenoid population that that's measuring, it is probably helped by people emigrating from Earth. Total population for space and Earth was down to 6.5 billion or so. Even if everyone left Earth, it's still the largest baby boom in history. No wonder the UC names Mobile Suits after Watership Down. El-ahrairah is clearly a major role model.
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Jun 14, 2022 23:54
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War and Pieces posted:The tragedy of the setting is that the Spacenoids we're 100% right to rebel, they just had the bad luck/complacency of getting saddled with horrible leadership. It's something like the Islamic Revolution in Iran or all those wars of decolonization that ended up in Tin Pot Dictatorships. This is not a remotely fair or reasonable assessment of the politics or blame in UC, considering that the Federation literally built the very land the Spacenoids live on (or at least, paid for it to be built), so they absolutely have some legitimate claim to rule, and that Side 3 were the only Side to rebel during the One Year War; with the movies establishing that they had already been granted autonomy after Zeon Zum Deikun's original rebellion at some point in the UC0060s. There is some argument to be made that the Federation should have given the Sides independence, or at least more control, but that doesn't apply to Side 3 by the time of UC0079, since they were in charge of themselves (akin to Canada, Australia etc; the Federation was, at best, just a nominal leadership they could and did ignore) and it's a lot less black and white than "it's all the Federation's fault" even if you do make that argument.
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Jun 14, 2022 23:55
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chiasaur11 posted:Nah. Kira and Lacus don't even sleep in the same bed. Meanwhile, Bright in ZZ can't care about anything besides eventually getting home to his family, and he still has to use all his willpower to avoid cheating on his wife. Kira is one of the like 4 Gundam protagonists we have for-real proof ever actually had sex.
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Jun 14, 2022 23:57
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it went pretty badly, i can see why he'd hold off
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Jun 14, 2022 23:58
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chiasaur11 posted:The most amazing thing for me about the UC is that, just 13ish years after the One Year War, despite Gryps and 30 Bunch and the Dublin Drop and so on... the Spacenoid population is back up to 10 billion. Honestly I've long come to the conclusion that pretty much everyone making works set in UC set after the OYW is intentionally ignoring most of the casualties of that war that aren't directly depicted onscreen otherwise the numbers just don't add up, at least Macross had the excuse after it's near extinction of humanity that they just did a lot of cloning to rebuild the population, and sure UC has cloning too but we never really see it used anywhere besides the Puru series
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Jun 15, 2022 00:00
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ImpAtom posted:Kira is one of the like 4 Gundam protagonists we have for-real proof ever actually had sex. Kira, Amuro, Mikazuki, Flit, Asemu, Reiji. That's six, right off the top of my head.
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Jun 15, 2022 00:00
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chiasaur11 posted:Kira, Amuro, Mikazuki, Flit, Asemu, Reiji. Oh right I forgot AGE exists. So 6.
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Jun 15, 2022 00:00
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drrockso20 posted:Honestly I've long come to the conclusion that pretty much everyone making works set in UC set after the OYW is intentionally ignoring most of the casualties of that war that aren't directly depicted onscreen otherwise the numbers just don't add up, at least Macross had the excuse after it's near extinction of humanity that they just did a lot of cloning to rebuild the population, and sure UC has cloning too but we never really see it used anywhere besides the Puru series The numbers are actually possible. They're just remarkably high. Basically, they say that Banagher's generation is huge.
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Jun 15, 2022 00:02
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