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cptn_dr
Sep 7, 2011

Seven for beauty that blossoms and dies


Obnoxipus posted:

also according to the very cool and official house identification tool, i belong in the fourth house, which tracks, unfortunately.

Get in friend, we're gonna gently caress up an octopus

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Obnoxipus
Apr 4, 2011

cptn_dr posted:

Get in friend, we're gonna gently caress up an octopus

first, we blind it with the shaving mirror. next, flare gun. step three, i don't know, but it's probably going to be pretty cool.

SurreptitiousMuffin
Mar 21, 2010
Devastated to learn I am also fourth house, I wanna hang out with Sex Pal dammit

disposablewords
Sep 12, 2021

cptn_dr posted:

Get in friend, we're gonna gently caress up an octopus

gently caress yeah! Fourth House best house, time to be some horrible impulsive teens!

DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013
Nap Ghost

SurreptitiousMuffin posted:

Devastated to learn I am also fourth house, I wanna hang out with Sex Pal dammit

To be true Sixth House you always have to reach for the writing materials first so you can record data.

SurreptitiousMuffin
Mar 21, 2010

DreamingofRoses posted:

To be true Sixth House you always have to reach for the writing materials first so you can record data.
I did! Writing materials were #1!

Then it was wall-to-wall 4th House things I wanted to be practical dammit.

Chernobyl Princess
Jul 31, 2009

It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important.

:siren:thunderdome winner:siren:

I wound up in the fifth house, so I suppose it falls upon me to remind all of y'all fourth house members to tidy your room and don't stare at the shadow cultists. It's impolite and they're probably more afraid of you than you are of them, after all.

lmao I love the fact that she put this extremely mid 2000's internet quiz together. I feel like I should link it in my livejournal profile.

DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013
Nap Ghost

SurreptitiousMuffin posted:

I did! Writing materials were #1!

Then it was wall-to-wall 4th House things I wanted to be practical dammit.

You forgot the necessity for proper water-tight storage afterwards. Immensely practical. I racked up some second and 4th house points for the flare gun, mirror, and nasty unpoisoned rations.

mewse
May 2, 2006

2nd house because I chose the sword and flag x_x

SurreptitiousMuffin
Mar 21, 2010
EDIT: I should not be revealing things until I have locked in a formal interview but there was briefly more FFX stuff here. If you saw it, be cool.

SurreptitiousMuffin fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Jun 16, 2022

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon
FF8 is better anyway

Happy Landfill
Feb 26, 2011

I don't understand but I've also heard much worse

SurreptitiousMuffin posted:

EDIT: I should not be revealing things until I have locked in a formal interview but there was briefly more FFX stuff here. If you saw it, be cool.

Oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy :yaycat:

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
Just finished my first re-read of both Gideon and Harrow and god drat are these books exceptional. I haven't listened to the audiobooks yet as I've never been an audiobook listener, but Audible gave me two free credits and I think I'll actually use it to give these a shot.

I never pick actors to embody the characters I see in my mind's eye, but Magnus the Fifth inexplicably sprung out as Nathan Fillion. On my second read, the voice of Mercymorn similarly came through immediately as the lesser-known Méabh de Brún (specifically, as Carpenter in The Silt Verses).

DominoKitten
Aug 7, 2012

The audiobooks are exquisitely narrated, so I think you’re about to have a very good time.

DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013
Nap Ghost
I just got a friend of mine to finish Harrow. The suffering is delicious

Plorkyeran
Mar 22, 2007

To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

quote:

Whatever your problem, you can always make up your own House, with the rider that you would have to make it up as though you were ten years old and were basing it heavily around whatever you were into at the time, which would mean that my House would be inspired entirely by the Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness manual

The warcraft 2 manual was loving good reading as a ten year old.

uber_stoat
Jan 21, 2001



Pillbug
checks out

Robo Reagan
Feb 12, 2012

by Fluffdaddy

Cugel the Clever posted:

Just finished my first re-read of both Gideon and Harrow and god drat are these books exceptional. I haven't listened to the audiobooks yet as I've never been an audiobook listener, but Audible gave me two free credits and I think I'll actually use it to give these a shot.

I never pick actors to embody the characters I see in my mind's eye, but Magnus the Fifth inexplicably sprung out as Nathan Fillion. On my second read, the voice of Mercymorn similarly came through immediately as the lesser-known Méabh de Brún (specifically, as Carpenter in The Silt Verses).

im not an audiobook person either but i like the ones for locked tomb. the va is good at emphasis and voices for characters,i dunno if that's common

Happy Landfill
Feb 26, 2011

I don't understand but I've also heard much worse
Yeah I just started the audio book yesterday and I'm super digging it. I wanted to reread the books before Nona came out but between school/work and some other books I'm reading I was worried I wouldn't have the time. Now I can "read" while I drive and work :3:

big dyke energy
Jul 29, 2006

Football? Yaaaay
So, uh, apparently if you go to the Amazon page for Nona and Look Inside, you can just go ahead and read the prologue. And gently caress.

John 20:8
Then the other disciple,
who had reached the tomb first,
also went in,
and he saw and believed

big dyke energy fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Jun 29, 2022

Happy Landfill
Feb 26, 2011

I don't understand but I've also heard much worse
Amazon's Look Inside strikes again :catstare:

Edit, now that I've read it: drat :stare:

...is it september yet?

Happy Landfill fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Jun 29, 2022

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
I read The Dawhounds cause Tamzyn recommended it and that was a pretty good waiting for Nona book.

Except now I also have to wait for that book’s sequel. gently caress.

Chernobyl Princess
Jul 31, 2009

It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important.

:siren:thunderdome winner:siren:

MonsieurChoc posted:

I read The Dawhounds cause Tamzyn recommended it and that was a pretty good waiting for Nona book.

Except now I also have to wait for that book’s sequel. gently caress.

That's how they get you. You get addicted to that particular flavor of humor thinly coating a primal, human scream of sorrow and longing, and then you end up with a whole bookshelf full of New Zealand authors.

... Also if anything bad happens to Wajet in book two I will probably cry.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.

Chernobyl Princess posted:

That's how they get you. You get addicted to that particular flavor of humor thinly coating a primal, human scream of sorrow and longing, and then you end up with a whole bookshelf full of New Zealand authors.

... Also if anything bad happens to Wajet in book two I will probably cry.

For me it’s the cat. Protect that cat.

…so what other New Zealander novels are good? Nona still isn’t out, I gotta cope.

silvergoose
Mar 18, 2006

IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS




Heard The Absolute Book by Elizabeth Knox was great, it's soon on my list to read

cptn_dr
Sep 7, 2011

Seven for beauty that blossoms and dies


Well it's not a novel but some of the Year's Best Short Story anthologies are pretty good.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09DFCP422?tag=paperroadpres-20

I dunno if there's anyone else on the pro scene who writes novels like Muir or Stronach yet, but I reckon we'll get there soon.

Lots of indie writers doing indie things, but it's yet to really take off outside of Gideon and Dawnhounds. Though SurreptitiousMuffin might show up to prove me wrong, he does that sometimes.

cptn_dr
Sep 7, 2011

Seven for beauty that blossoms and dies


silvergoose posted:

Heard The Absolute Book by Elizabeth Knox was great, it's soon on my list to read

Also yeah, it's a very different beast to Gideon but Liz is definitely one of our best writers, though she falls into the category of authors where the critics say "Oh she's writing literature so it's not really fantasy". She disagrees and shows up to our local spec Fic writer meetups sometimes, but what can you do.

Happy Landfill
Feb 26, 2011

I don't understand but I've also heard much worse
man New Zealand sounds cool

SurreptitiousMuffin
Mar 21, 2010

Happy Landfill posted:

man New Zealand sounds cool
yeah nah it's stink aye, we've got that oval office who wrote the dawnhounds and people take him seriously, you should see the bloody state

on a more serious note, I think both Taz and I write that veil of humour b/c we're roughly the same age and the NZ literary scene we grew up in was bleak. It was Owen Marshall and Kirsty Gunn. I remember seeing a movie in '04-'05 that ended with the protag laying her head down on the train tracks then slowly smiling as they began to vibrate. There was an Owen Marshall adaptation out just last year that's loving harrowing. We used to joke "it's not NZ lit until somebody drowns". I think there's a generation of writers who came up through that environment and also had a lot of trauma, and we couldn't keep reading poo poo that wallowed in it – there was a need, I think, to find meaning in those howls of pain, and often that involves kinda messy/vulnerable/human-ness, humour as veil and coping mechanism both, reminding us that we're human and stopping us from breaking down under relentless pressure and pain.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









MonsieurChoc posted:

For me it’s the cat. Protect that cat.

…so what other New Zealander novels are good? Nona still isn’t out, I gotta cope.

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/58458391-she-s-a-killer this is great. starts weird and quirky in the fleabag mold, gradually morphs into a legit thriller.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









SurreptitiousMuffin posted:

yeah nah it's stink aye, we've got that oval office who wrote the dawnhounds and people take him seriously, you should see the bloody state

on a more serious note, I think both Taz and I write that veil of humour b/c we're roughly the same age and the NZ literary scene we grew up in was bleak. It was Owen Marshall and Kirsty Gunn. I remember seeing a movie in '04-'05 that ended with the protag laying her head down on the train tracks then slowly smiling as they began to vibrate. There was an Owen Marshall adaptation out just last year that's loving harrowing. We used to joke "it's not NZ lit until somebody drowns". I think there's a generation of writers who came up through that environment and also had a lot of trauma, and we couldn't keep reading poo poo that wallowed in it – there was a need, I think, to find meaning in those howls of pain, and often that involves kinda messy/vulnerable/human-ness, humour as veil and coping mechanism both, reminding us that we're human and stopping us from breaking down under relentless pressure and pain.

hunt for the wilderpeople is kind of a reaction against that kind of book too, you can see the grim tale of alienation behind it if you squint (not in the novel it came from more stuff like Vigil)

silvergoose
Mar 18, 2006

IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS




SurreptitiousMuffin posted:

yeah nah it's stink aye, we've got that oval office who wrote the dawnhounds and people take him seriously, you should see the bloody state

on a more serious note, I think both Taz and I write that veil of humour b/c we're roughly the same age and the NZ literary scene we grew up in was bleak. It was Owen Marshall and Kirsty Gunn. I remember seeing a movie in '04-'05 that ended with the protag laying her head down on the train tracks then slowly smiling as they began to vibrate. There was an Owen Marshall adaptation out just last year that's loving harrowing. We used to joke "it's not NZ lit until somebody drowns". I think there's a generation of writers who came up through that environment and also had a lot of trauma, and we couldn't keep reading poo poo that wallowed in it – there was a need, I think, to find meaning in those howls of pain, and often that involves kinda messy/vulnerable/human-ness, humour as veil and coping mechanism both, reminding us that we're human and stopping us from breaking down under relentless pressure and pain.

Oh riiiight you're the one who recommended The Absolute Book to me weren't you, haha.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.

SurreptitiousMuffin posted:

yeah nah it's stink aye, we've got that oval office who wrote the dawnhounds and people take him seriously, you should see the bloody state

on a more serious note, I think both Taz and I write that veil of humour b/c we're roughly the same age and the NZ literary scene we grew up in was bleak. It was Owen Marshall and Kirsty Gunn. I remember seeing a movie in '04-'05 that ended with the protag laying her head down on the train tracks then slowly smiling as they began to vibrate. There was an Owen Marshall adaptation out just last year that's loving harrowing. We used to joke "it's not NZ lit until somebody drowns". I think there's a generation of writers who came up through that environment and also had a lot of trauma, and we couldn't keep reading poo poo that wallowed in it – there was a need, I think, to find meaning in those howls of pain, and often that involves kinda messy/vulnerable/human-ness, humour as veil and coping mechanism both, reminding us that we're human and stopping us from breaking down under relentless pressure and pain.

It’s the old adage: you laugh or you cry.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
Wait, are you actually the author!?

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Muffin is, yeah

There is a cc thread where he started talking about self pubbing, then he got picked up by a big boy agent after getting super drunk and going on twitter

SurreptitiousMuffin
Mar 21, 2010
Yeah, I try to keep a level of separation between personal and professional identities because the industry is a snakepit right now (what happened to Taz hosed me up, I have nightmares about it) but too many people know who I am here to fully keep it apart – the book came out of a CC IRC thing, I shouted out a goon by username in the acknowledgements and like ten others by their names. I was particularly cagey/weird on here a couple of weeks back because it was around the launch and I was going mad with stress, not sleeping, constantly waiting for some horrible shoe to drop. Got kinda paranoid there for a bit, though in my defence some level of paranoia seems justified.

SurreptitiousMuffin fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jun 30, 2022

Happy Landfill
Feb 26, 2011

I don't understand but I've also heard much worse
Well, drat, now I definitely gotta pick up Dawnhounds! Always happy to support a Goon, and especially after the glowing praise from Muir! :cheersbird:

Seriously, congrats Muffin!! :)

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?

SurreptitiousMuffin posted:

Yeah, I try to keep a level of separation between personal and professional identities because the industry is a snakepit right now (what happened to Taz hosed me up, I have nightmares about it)

Wait, something happened?

Happy Landfill
Feb 26, 2011

I don't understand but I've also heard much worse

DoctorWhat posted:

Wait, something happened?

I think Muffin might be referring to this?

https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/q58os2/sff_books_the_story_of_tamsyn_muir_her_fanfiction/

Edit: Here's a pretty in-depth interview with Muir about the incident and the fanfic in particular. (CW for discussion of csa)
https://threecrowsmagazine.com/tamsyn-muir-interview-there-is-a-lot-of-blood-on-my-dance-floor/

This relevant bit. Spoilered for, again, discussions of csa.

quote:

Back to me. I raised comment because I wrote a fanfic where a thirteen-year-old girl is groomed and sexually abused by, and I’m fumbling for context here, a much older iteration of her best male friend. Think of the girl and her best male friend as clones, and the older man in this case the genetic original; she herself is a clone of someone the man was unrequitedly in love with. This is all sounding pretty SFF; I should’ve tried to rewrite it and flog it. The rapist is the POV protagonist: he explicitly and with intent grooms and abuses his quarry, which is perhaps a little heavy for source material where the running joke is that we don’t know where a pumpkin is. The story ends with him being murdered by his teenage clone in revenge.

Image result for tamsyn muir
The accusation was that the story was intended to titillate, as it was written on a kinkmeme. (For the uninitiated: a ‘kink meme’ is where people anonymously request porn fanfiction, or ‘fills’, but oftentimes a kink meme sags away from porn and becomes a place for funny-story fills, for gen fills, for romance or shippy fills. In my time there I ended up writing one piece of mild pornography, four ‘gen’ stories with nary a kiss, the sexual-grooming story I mentioned up there, and a sonnet sequence.) The story was written because someone had requested ‘age gap kink’. I put it up on AO3 rated E for Explicit (you have to click a little box that says you are not under 18 when you try to read it). It is also tagged as ‘child abuse’, ‘rape’, and ‘underage’. I apologise in the author’s note for writing a darker story than requested by the requestor: they were so kind about it, and it was not intended as a kind of “take this, pervert” comeback. I thought the request was really interesting. I wanted to write about the complications of an alien race who have, in their canon work, been separated from the younger members of their race on account of the adults being physically overpowering and violent; I wanted to write the interaction of an older out-of-time predator with a much younger, idealistic girl with big ideas of revolution and no actual concept of the kind of monsters she’s dealing with. I also definitely wanted to write about a thirteen-year-old boy who sees himself reflected in his much older predecessor, watches his best friend get taken in and abused by the same, and violently rejects it. It’s a nasty story. The end revenge is, at best, pyrrhic, and it is certainly not the girl’s revenge. The title is taken from Lolita, from the final couplet of Humbert Humbert’s Wanted poem: And I shall be dumped where the weed decays/And the rest is rust and stardust.

In a very real way I am the wrong person to discuss dark fanfiction with, because I have not written age-gap/underage stories to titillate. I’ve written loads of stories about grooming and sexual abuse, although sometimes it is metaphorical (The Magician’s Apprentice, first published in Weird Tales and edited by the wonderful Ann VanderMeer, is a story that sets up sexual grooming as a throughline but the grooming is for… something else) and sometimes it is not metaphorical (Chew, first published in Nightmare Magazine, edited by the excellent John Joseph Adams — a teenage girl is raped and murdered in post-WWII Stuttgart, and her story begins there). I don’t think anyone talked about my pro fiction in the Tamsyn Muir PSA.

Maybe they didn’t know it was there, but I have a sense that the problem for some people was the fanfiction part: because all fanfic is obviously porn, then if you’re writing fanfic with child abuse, it’s got to be child porn by definition. Like, why would you put anything in a fanfic unless it was to gratify the deepest and most secret desires of yourself and/or your audience. Why would you bake something into a cake unless it was something you wanted to eat? But fanfic doesn’t have to be cake any more than pro fiction does, and I think we’re undervaluing a huge amount of incredible work by assuming it was all done as a kind of baroque variation on jacking off.

It’s also not as easy as “If you’re writing from a place of personal damage, maybe you get to write this.” People have written brilliantly about personal damages they have not suffered. People have personal damage they don’t, can’t, or won’t disclose. Living cheek-by-jowl with rape culture and teen sexualisation, and total dismissal of teenage girls period, is more than enough of an ‘excuse’ to write about sexual abuse one has not suffered physically but has arguably suffered spiritually. Some people are going to write about the topic with the intent to do it in a thorny and damning and complicated way. Some of them are going to write about it with the intent to titillate. Some of them are going to write about it intending both, trying to start a specific conversation with the reader, going for a deliberate effect. For some readers, their hard line is that they don’t want to see any of this stuff, they want to protect teenagers at all costs, they want to stop the people who would use this material to groom and abuse teenagers. However, the community policing seems to start with often-queer, often-female-identified creators, doesn’t interrogate the work itself, and seems to… not leave the community. A critique that begins with soft targets and never rages against hard targets stops looking like any critique at all. Author as leading moral light is a lovely idea, but it was always one that bore down hardest on women and fiction for women. Ladies and their novels, you know? Read Louisa May Alcott’s An Old-Fashioned Girl. It has some befuddling loving sermonizing. Know what’s naughty? Fringes

Edit again, sorry: motherfucker, Muir wrote Promstuck??? :wth: :wth: :wth:

Happy Landfill fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Jul 1, 2022

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MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.

SurreptitiousMuffin posted:

Yeah, I try to keep a level of separation between personal and professional identities because the industry is a snakepit right now (what happened to Taz hosed me up, I have nightmares about it) but too many people know who I am here to fully keep it apart – the book came out of a CC IRC thing, I shouted out a goon by username in the acknowledgements and like ten others by their names. I was particularly cagey/weird on here a couple of weeks back because it was around the launch and I was going mad with stress, not sleeping, constantly waiting for some horrible shoe to drop. Got kinda paranoid there for a bit, though in my defence some level of paranoia seems justified.

Grats on the book deal, and good call on keeping some separation. The internet can be a nasty place.

I’ll def check the sequel, not to put pressure or anything. If I can wait for old grrm I can wait for anything. :p

Edit: Yeah Muir wrote a bunch of homestuck fanfic. Turns out I’d read them already lol.

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