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mlmp08 posted:Full (wall of) text of the pope’s comments are interesting. Popete posted:The pope: "There are good people on both sides" He wants journalists to remember to cover the human element, to write on the personal and local scale about how normal people are affected. He seems to suggest that focusing on, say, hardware statistics and global politics mostly serves the powers that may have instigated or at the very least have a financial interest in prolonging the war. He also throws in a reminder that we need to find and cement ways to support refugees even when the public interest has faded, which it inevitably will. He also says that the war in Ukraine has confirmed his personal belief that the we've been in a fragmented Third World War for some time. I know very little about the current Pope but I thought his answer was insightful and not at all about "there are good people on both sides" — which is the kind of reductive statement he's cautioning against.
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Jun 15, 2022 11:53
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Charlotte Hornets posted:https://twitter.com/UKikaski/status/1536691056330293248 Are there targeting systems for this particular application of rockets? I know that the US had computers for toss bombing with planes which is the closest thing I can think of but I don't know if helicopters have ever used rockets in a ballistic arc before this war. BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 11:58 on Jun 15, 2022 |
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Jun 15, 2022 11:55
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BattleMaster posted:Are there targeting systems for this particular application of rockets? I know that the US had computers for toss bombing with planes but I don't know if helicopters have ever used rockets in a ballistic arc before this war. I don't think there's anything more advanced than a chart for angle of launch and associated travel distance of the projectile
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Jun 15, 2022 11:59
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https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1536944902323458049 you can also probably apply this to tanks
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Jun 15, 2022 12:15
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A big flaming stink posted:my guy have you visited a gas station lately? The United States was only getting like ~1% of its oil imports from Russia. The US is a net energy exporter, so nationwide, the US should benefit from oil prices going up. Some places like the Aleutians maybe got oil from Russia, idk. If the US government decides not to tax oil and gas companies further to make pump prices cheaper, then I guess that is their decision - but overall the economy of the US benefits from higher gas and oil prices, unlike Europe. (E: And beyond that, although a net exporter, the US does import a fair amount of oil, but of that, the majority comes from Canada:  ). Prices at the pump being high seems to be something that Biden should be able to easily solve, but maybe does not want to or cannot without Republican assistance which they won't give. Inflation, certainly more tricky, but blaming Russian sanctions for high pump prices in the US doesn't really make much sense.Also pump prices in the USA are still hilariously low, but I guess that's a different thread. Saladman fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Jun 15, 2022 |
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Jun 15, 2022 12:16
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anatomi posted:I don't think that's the point Francis was trying to make. He's appealing to journalists not to reduce the ongoing horror to a narrative about good guys versus bad guys or to war analytics. He said more than that pope posted:A couple of months before the war started I met a head of state, a wise man, who speaks very little, very wise indeed. After we talked about the things he wanted to talk about, he told me that he was very concerned about the way NATO was moving. I asked him why, and he said, “They are barking at the gates of Russia. They do not understand that the Russians are imperialists and will allow no foreign power to approach them.” Very wise indeed. Except Russia originally started this over a trade agreement with the EU - not EU or NATO membership. The NATO argument is as wise as the biolabs argument is insightful.
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Jun 15, 2022 12:31
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Yeah, that was stupid. That said, the core theme in his response seemed to be about the importance of journos focusing on the human element, because relaying the horror rather than the logistics of war is more beneficial to humanity ("and the Church" lol). I thought that was decent enough, his "wise friend" aside. But I may have misinterpreted his message.
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Jun 15, 2022 12:46
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If you look at the totality of the Pope's comments on the war its pretty clear he is in basically the right place, using his position to remind people of the humanitarian dimension of things, and pointedly calling out the Patriarch of Moscow for politicising religion. He knows how many divisions the Vatican has so he's talking about the things he knows people will listen to him on.
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Jun 15, 2022 12:52
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FishBulbia posted:https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1536944902323458049 Matches up with a lot of mocking of failed Switchblade strikes I've seen in russian sources; either it's a hilariously unreliable weapon, or it's very unintuitive.
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Jun 15, 2022 13:14
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Neurolimal posted:Matches up with a lot of mocking of failed Switchblade strikes I've seen in russian sources; either it's a hilariously unreliable weapon, or it's very unintuitive. It's a good reminder--which some of us have brought up a few times in this thread--that handing kit over is only part of the process. Training matters, and you can't handwave it away.
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Jun 15, 2022 13:19
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Having used robots and drones in the U.S. Army, I'm guessing these drones are probably complicated trash bloated with extra unnecessary features. If you know the civilian model already, why bother switching over unless you had to?
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Jun 15, 2022 13:24
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The switchblade always truck me as a pointless weapon. It's a mortar shell with thousand extra steps that would probably be better substituted with just firing more mortar shells. If you want loitering capability, give them some predators / geagles with hellfire missiles
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Jun 15, 2022 13:27
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Owling Howl posted:Except Russia originally started this over a trade agreement with the EU - not EU or NATO membership. The NATO argument is as wise as the biolabs argument is insightful. Personally, I think it was a combination of factors; violently couping a Russia-sympathetic government, the drifting away from trade with Russia, the severe ramping up of strikes on Donetsk, the (completely empty, mind) threats of nuclear armament, and continued NATO pursuit. Most of which does not justify war, of course. I don't think Francis is saying "the war is just", rather that there were many clear signs of friction and offramps.
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Jun 15, 2022 13:27
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steinrokkan posted:The switchblade always truck me as a pointless weapon. It's a mortar shell with thousand extra steps that would probably be better substituted with just firing more mortar shells. If you want loitering capability, give them some predators / geagles with hellfire missiles The idea is that you want something an infantry company can bring with them. I agree that using a glorified pneumatic tube to launch it adds unnecessary complexity. (If nothing else, you have to build it to withstand a very hard, initial acceleration.) Predators and similar drones are fantastic, but are too large to tote around in a rucksack. Personally, I think the quad-copter format seems to work well for companies and platoons. A cavalry troop (company) may need something larger due to their wider dispersion, but maneuver companies don't need a drone that goes 20km. Leave that asset for the battalions and brigades.
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Jun 15, 2022 13:34
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Neurolimal posted:Personally, I think it was a combination of factors; violently couping a Russia-sympathetic government, the drifting away from trade with Russia, the severe ramping up of strikes on Donetsk, the (completely empty, mind) threats of nuclear armament, and continued NATO pursuit. Most of which does not justify war, of course. I don't think Francis is saying "the war is just", rather that there were many clear signs of friction and offramps. Strikes on Donetsk only started after Strelkov and other Russian proxies started taking over local administrations back in 2014. Do you have any sources on threats of nuclear armament?
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Jun 15, 2022 13:38
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It's pretty clearly a weapon designed for small squad on squad encounters where neither side has immediate artillery support rather than a war of artillery.
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Jun 15, 2022 13:39
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fatherboxx posted:Strikes on Donetsk only started after Strelkov and other Russian proxies started taking over local administrations back in 2014. Some Ukrainian official said Budapest was a bad idea and Putin claimed that this meant Ukraine was going to build WMDs. People underestimate how much Russia's rhetoric is trolling about Kosovo & Iraq/Libya
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Jun 15, 2022 13:41
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fatherboxx posted:Strikes on Donetsk only started after Strelkov and other Russian proxies started taking over local administrations back in 2014. Not particularly interested in arguing how just the strikes were, only that they didn't help with averting war. quote:Do you have any sources on threats of nuclear armament? https://www.dailysabah.com/world/europe/ukraine-mulls-nuclear-arms-if-nato-membership-not-impending-envoy https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/russlands-truppenverlegung-ukrainischer-botschafter-wir-100.html quote:a member of the NATO military alliance, the Ukrainian ambassador to Germany said. Occurred after the massing of troops on the border, so subject to debates over whether or not the decision to invade had already been irrevocably made at that point.
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Jun 15, 2022 13:44
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Neurolimal posted:Not particularly interested in arguing how just the strikes were, only that they didn't help with averting war. ... because the actions of armed Russian agents in Donetsk and Crimean takeover by "polite men" were not acts of war? Neurolimal posted:https://www.dailysabah.com/world/europe/ukraine-mulls-nuclear-arms-if-nato-membership-not-impending-envoy Thank you, seems extremely rushed from Myelnik, yes.
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Jun 15, 2022 13:49
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Neurolimal posted:Not particularly interested in arguing how just the strikes were, only that they didn't help with averting war. Neurolimal posted:https://www.dailysabah.com/world/europe/ukraine-mulls-nuclear-arms-if-nato-membership-not-impending-envoy
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Jun 15, 2022 13:51
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https://mobile.twitter.com/avalaina/status/1536663629143105537
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Jun 15, 2022 13:51
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One interesting thing was the TB2s started operating in Donetsk last year from what I understand. I.e. Ukraine was about to do a "Azerbaijan in Nagorno-Karabakh" on the Russian sponsored regions unless something drastic was done. My read of Russia on Ukraine is that it was like the scare of the red tide flowing down Indochina provoking an ideological response from western capitalist thought leaders as opposed to a dry economical rationalisation or thinking about what was good for the peoples directly involved. SE still has the scars from that result of that ideological reaction. That Russia turned nasty on Ukraine at the time of the trade agreement does not mean the aggravation was for dry economical reasons, it was a lot about representing and enabling the perceived cultural victory that the west was having over Russia in Ukraine.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:01
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Electric Wrigglies posted:Ukraine was about to do a "Azerbaijan in Nagorno-Karabakh" on the Russian sponsored regions unless something drastic was done. There is literally zero evidence of that, lmao.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:04
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Paladinus posted:There is literally zero evidence of that, lmao. I wouldn't care if there were (there wasn't). Countries are allowed to fight back. Russia started this war in 2014.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:08
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Electric Wrigglies posted:I have a question, does this conflict spell the end of the EU economy (based upon cheap gas) and US dollar (due to Russia joining up with the other BRICS countries to firmly establish an alternative to the USD hegemony. While it may sound far fetched on the face of it, BRICs is Brasil (neutral), Russia (on field trip), India (neutral), China (neutral and actively keen to set up an alternative via amongst other things the silk road) and South Africa (neutral). no (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 15, 2022 14:09
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Wasn't a significant part of Zelensky's platform a political (not military) resolution to the war in the east?
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Jun 15, 2022 14:09
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Paladinus posted:There is literally zero evidence of that, lmao. As soon as someone links to it, it's a source (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 15, 2022 14:09
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Electric Wrigglies posted:One interesting thing was the TB2s started operating in Donetsk last year from what I understand. I.e. Ukraine was about to do a "Azerbaijan in Nagorno-Karabakh" on the Russian sponsored regions unless something drastic was done. This is utter nonsense, and I can only wonder what kind of horseshit have you been reading to develop such understanding. Ukrainian governments since 2016 have repeatedly stated that they have no intent to reclaim LDNR territory through military force, while also possessing more than sufficient military strength to roll in and gently caress up the proxy forces. In fact, they were successfully doing that in 2015, fledgling as it was, until Russian forces intervened openly and threw them back. The only obstacle to a military solution since then has been presence of Russian soldiers on the territory, which was large enough to make any “blitz” scenario impossible, and guarantee an open war with Russia.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:10
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Good article from RUSI: https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/macron-must-avoid-immolation-french-influenceFishBulbia posted:Wasn't a significant part of Zelensky's platform a political (not military) resolution to the war in the east? It was, but that ran into the problem of realising that Putin wasn't going to budge from an interpretation of Minsk that wasn't permanent puppet states with a veto on Ukrainian foreign policy. Then the policy became 'accept the frozen conflict' while reforming the armed forces and building economic ties with the EU so that Ukraine stops being economically dependent on Russia, which ran into the problem of being invaded. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Jun 15, 2022 |
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Jun 15, 2022 14:11
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FishBulbia posted:Wasn't a significant part of Zelensky's platform a political (not military) resolution to the war in the east? It was, so much that half of the country considered him Russian shill up until Russian tanks rolled into Chernobyl.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:12
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FishBulbia posted:Wasn't a significant part of Zelensky's platform a political (not military) resolution to the war in the east? Yes, and his presidency marked overall lowering of intensity of the conflict. When the war ends and Churchill moment passes I am sure Poroshenko would hit hard on Zelensky for being too soft pre-war, that narrative is already being seeded on the margins of Ukrainian media.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:13
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fatherboxx posted:Yes, and his presidency marked overall lowering of intensity of the conflict. I think Poroshenko would've lost the war. Or at least fled.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:19
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Ukraine started striking military units in Donbas in Oct21 https://www.defenseworld.net/2021/10/27/ukrainian-military-deploys-turkish-made-bayraktar-drone-in-donbas.html#.YXlXmZ5ByUk was this only going to be a one off? Or was it the start of Ukraine knocking over separatist firepower without the consequent collateral damage that would have been incurred arty dueling. The separatists had no answer for these, Russia does but even they struggle. I did not mean to imply they were going to blitz the regions with an armoured push. Azerbijan's victory was not from a massive ground invasion, it was the loiter ammunition and drone dismantling of Armenia's armed forces that did it. Yes they attached too but my apologies for not clarifying that I was not talking about that bit of it. Ukraine would have been in a much better position negotiating with the separatists if every time they fired a shot at Ukraine, the arty (and only the arty) would get destroyed by drones. Like a lot a lot better. someone already answered the question better than you chief. Zhanism posted:This seems to be having the opposite effect. EUs economy isnt based on cheap gas. The EU economy isnt going to collapse to the stone age if Russia turns off the tap. Its facing painful adjustments but lets not forget that the EU as whole has higher population than USA and its GDP is i think 3rd in the world.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:19
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FishBulbia posted:Wasn't a significant part of Zelensky's platform a political (not military) resolution to the war in the east? Yes, and despite a lot of pushback from the more hawkish political parties and street activists, he stuck to it. Perhaps the only missed opportunity he had was to have a viable diplomatic Plan B to float internationally, when it became obvious that Minsk 2 wasn't going to work.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:20
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Electric Wrigglies posted:I have a question, does this conflict spell the end of the EU economy (based upon cheap gas) and US dollar (due to Russia joining up with the other BRICS countries to firmly establish an alternative to the USD hegemony. While it may sound far fetched on the face of it, BRICs is Brasil (neutral), Russia (on field trip), India (neutral), China (neutral and actively keen to set up an alternative via amongst other things the silk road) and South Africa (neutral). If you want answers, try to formulate your question in a way that isn't going to be dismissed outright as farcical. Yes, the EU is going to burn to the ground tomorrow and the US is going to sink into the ocean, is that what you wanted to hear?
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Jun 15, 2022 14:21
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Electric Wrigglies posted:Ukraine started striking military units in Donbas in Oct21 https://www.defenseworld.net/2021/10/27/ukrainian-military-deploys-turkish-made-bayraktar-drone-in-donbas.html#.YXlXmZ5ByUk was this only going to be a one off? Or was it the start of Ukraine knocking over separatist firepower without the consequent collateral damage that would have been incurred arty dueling. The separatists had no answer for these, Russia does but even they struggle. Oh, one of those. If you wanted to argue in good faith, you'd look up the recorded cease fire violations compiled by international observers and note that virtually all of them were committed by Russia, instead of pulling off this manipulative bullshit.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:23
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steinrokkan posted:Oh, one of those. If you wanted to argue in good faith, you'd look up the recorded cease fire violations compiled by international observers and note that virtually all of them were committed by Russia, instead of pulling off this manipulative bullshit. what are you talking about? I am not talking violations (arty that gets hit while firing on Ukrainian soil is not going to prompt anything other than crocodile tears as far as violations go). I was talking practicalities. The drones were a game changer in the tit for tat that was ongoing. That is all I said. E) actually, I can see how it was read that I was saying more and could be read as saying that Ukraine was about to go on the offensive, my bad. My point is that the tit for tat had taken a huge turn in Ukraine's favor with the deployment of drones to the separatist areas. So much so that the Russian position in those was untenable without drastic changes to the support provided. Electric Wrigglies fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Jun 15, 2022 |
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Jun 15, 2022 14:29
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At one point, Russian violations of the ceasefire had become so egregious that Putin had to publicly visit the seperatists, and plead with them that he is not a loser. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 15, 2022 14:30
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Electric Wrigglies posted:what are you talking about? I am not talking violations (arty that gets hit while firing on Ukrainian soil is not going to prompt anything other than crocodile tears as far as violations go). I was talking practicalities. The drones were a game changer in the tit for tat that was ongoing. That is all I said. It's just a drone, lmao.
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Jun 15, 2022 14:33
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Really buying into the Grey Wolf propaganda about the Bayraktar
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