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cinci zoo sniper posted:Not sure what you did expect from it. HT is a pretty well respected source and it’s been around since 1924. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindustan_Times
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Jun 21, 2022 14:16
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Tai posted:15 ish years ago, I worked nights while at uni and there was a heavy Polish and Baltic presence there. An easy 75% of the work force of around 150 people. USSR is only part of it, Poland was literally taken apart by Prussia, the Habsburgs and the Russian Empire and wiped clean from the map for 123 years. And, despite of it happening in 1772 you can still see the effect it has on Poland. Why Silesia is so connected to Germany, why the whole Eastern Poland is so close to Russia, you can see it in people's family trees, town names and designs, infrastructure, especially rail infrastructure, check out this cool map from the 1950s, before we decided to fix some of the mistakes of the Russian opressor. You can even see it by how people vote, what they drink, local customs, local slang etc. USSR was Russia returning to govern us like a satelite state and I'd say we got off lightly by not being integrated "properly". But the partitions is a grudge we have been harboring for 300+ years, against all who participated but especially Russia since living in the Russian "Zabór" was the loving worst. And we never let go, because they only doubled down during WW2 with the Siberia deportations and Katyń genocide.
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Jun 21, 2022 14:16
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Morning maps https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1539179413610569728?s=20&t=bkDMwNDGFcdh2JvAz9AqYQ https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1539190547352788994?s=20&t=bkDMwNDGFcdh2JvAz9AqYQ Morning proofs https://twitter.com/CovertShores/status/1539237749227651072?s=20&t=-CUnCdVg2R_9QxbsLjdcxg Morning sads https://twitter.com/markmackinnon/status/1539169626143219712?s=20&t=GdBkc1NPfzWlFxO13oNU2A https://twitter.com/StratcomCentre/status/1538944519646887936?s=20&t=GdBkc1NPfzWlFxO13oNU2A Edited in original source on burning oil
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Jun 21, 2022 14:37
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I'm seeing reports of Russia claiming that Geneva conventions don't apply to the two captured US fighters. Is this Russia trying to goad the US into joining the war, or ???
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Jun 21, 2022 14:45
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Marshal Prolapse posted:HT is a pretty well respected source and it’s been around since 1924. It’s absolutely not a well respected source for Eastern European news. It looks like an absolutely unremarkable newspaper, with minuscule circulation and reputation problems as per the page you linked. Lastly, did you know that Daily Mail has been around since 1896?
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Jun 21, 2022 14:48
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cinci zoo sniper posted:It’s absolutely not a well respected source for Eastern European news. It looks like an absolutely unremarkable newspaper, with minuscule circulation and reputation problems as per the page you linked. Lastly, did you know that Daily Mail has been around since 1896? Do you have any actually evidence to support this? HT was one of the driving forces for Indian Independence. I mean look what Kit just posted. It appears the only sin might be the sin of stock photos.
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Jun 21, 2022 14:50
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Mr. Apollo posted:Did anything every come of the OSINT accounts saying they were taking a break for a few days? I remember some people were suggesting that there may have been a major OPSEC breach in the UAF so they suffered a major defeat. I'm pretty sure it was just 2-3 accounts that coincidentally were taking a break for unrelated reasons around the same time. And then some other accounts flipped out and jumped to conclusions.
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Jun 21, 2022 14:51
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Mr. Apollo posted:Did anything every come of the OSINT accounts saying they were taking a break for a few days? I remember some people were suggesting that there may have been a major OPSEC breach in the UAF so they suffered a major defeat. The only thing that seems to have happened is someone loosing their mortar shell inscription photo service.
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Jun 21, 2022 14:51
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Shooting Blanks posted:I'm seeing reports of Russia claiming that Geneva conventions don't apply to the two captured US fighters. Is this Russia trying to goad the US into joining the war, or ??? Russia doesn’t abide by the Geneva Conventions generally. They’re just trying to divide NATO by getting people to debate how acceptable that is.
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Jun 21, 2022 14:51
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Marshal Prolapse posted:Do you have any actually evidence to support this? HT was one of the driving forces for Indian Independence. I don’t think the burden of proof is on me here. You linked to a sloppily written article, got burnt by it, claimed that it’s actually a great newspaper [for news about Eastern Europe, since what else would be relevant in this thread], and backed that claim up with a Wikipedia link that is unable to support it.
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Jun 21, 2022 14:59
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Not that there's an argument. They're uniformed marked combatants openly carrying arms who signed a contract with the ukrainian government, and that last bit doesn't even matter.
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Jun 21, 2022 15:01
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Shooting Blanks posted:I'm seeing reports of Russia claiming that Geneva conventions don't apply to the two captured US fighters. Is this Russia trying to goad the US into joining the war, or ??? The Geneva conventions do not (fully) apply to mercenaries. Mercenaries are not entitled to the status of combatant or POW, and they have a much lower level of protection, just barely above "you cant just summarily execute them for no reason or refuse to feed and shelter them at all". Russia is insisting that they are mercenaries and not members of Ukraine's armed forces, while most others would say that they should be recognized as part of Ukraine's military. This is part of the reason why the US strongly discouraged former US military from going over to fight in Ukraine. Rigel fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Jun 21, 2022 |
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Jun 21, 2022 15:01
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Mr. Apollo posted:Did anything every come of the OSINT accounts saying they were taking a break for a few days? I remember some people were suggesting that there may have been a major OPSEC breach in the UAF so they suffered a major defeat. The "major defeat" of the UAF is that some bridges were blown up and Russia has taken about 5 meters of territory in Sivierodonetsk per day for the past three weeks, and if they can keep this current rate up they will reach Zaporizhzhia by approximately autumn, of the year 2352. Basically, like the encirclement incoming from Popasna. I mean maybe Russia will eventually take Lysychansk, but it's pretty obvious there have been no major defeats of the UAF nor Russia in the past few weeks, just grinding artillery and WW1's Western Front types of gains.
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Jun 21, 2022 15:31
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Rigel posted:The Geneva conventions do not (fully) apply to mercenaries. Mercenaries are not entitled to the status of combatant or POW, and they have a much lower level of protection, just barely above "you cant just summarily execute them for no reason or refuse to feed and shelter them at all". Russians using that argument would hit them more because there are hundreds if not thousands of Wagner members widely used in Ukraine, including even pilots.
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Jun 21, 2022 15:39
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Rigel posted:The Geneva conventions do not (fully) apply to mercenaries. Mercenaries are not entitled to the status of combatant or POW, and they have a much lower level of protection, just barely above "you cant just summarily execute them for no reason or refuse to feed and shelter them at all". First, a mercenary is ONLY a combatant who enlists to fight for a side in a conflict solely for the reasons of monetary gain, and is paid significantly more than combatants of the regular forces. Volunteers, foreigners fighting within national army etc. are very much NOT mercenaries. Second, a mercenary must be given all the same protections as any other person accused of criminal activities, the only exception is he is not afforded the special considerations given to captive soldiers. So no, mercenaries can't be basically shot willy nilly under international law.
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Jun 21, 2022 15:41
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fatherboxx posted:Russians using that argument would hit them more because there are hundreds if not thousands of Wagner members widely used in Ukraine, including even pilots. Again, PMCs are not mercenaries per se. Depends on their tasks, pay, relation to armed structure of the state employing them, and, most importantly, nationality. Russians fighting for RUssia aren't mercenaries even if they are part of a PMC and not the Russian Army. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Jun 21, 2022 |
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Jun 21, 2022 15:44
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fatherboxx posted:Russians using that argument would hit them more because there are hundreds if not thousands of Wagner members widely used in Ukraine, including even pilots. One major difference is that I don't think Putin would really give a drat if captured Russians were mistreated, except to the extent that the issue might be useful to him.
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Jun 21, 2022 15:51
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https://twitter.com/oleksiireznikov/status/1539225560588734466 Nice German tanks shooting at Moscow, Herr Scholz.
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Jun 21, 2022 15:56
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cinci zoo sniper posted:https://twitter.com/oleksiireznikov/status/1539225560588734466 What is so special about the P2000s that they keep coming up as this hyped up wonder weapon?
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Jun 21, 2022 16:04
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Kraftwerk posted:What is so special about the P2000s that they keep coming up as this hyped up wonder weapon? I mainly posted it due to the delivery being confirmed. Supposedly they’re the most modern self-propelled howitzers in NATO arsenal, though - not that it should matter at the paltry number delivered.
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Jun 21, 2022 16:09
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Nice German tanks shooting at Moscow, Herr Scholz. Scholz has an extremely heterodoxic tank chart alignment - a tank is an armored and tracked vehicle which has a gun. This includes autocannons (unless primarily intended for anti-aircraft use), but not howitzers. The position on vehicles with a mortar mounted is unknown, but they're too Swedish a concept to be relevant anyway. No self-respecting German factory would put such a weedy thing on a tracked chassis. In other words, IFVs and MBTs are no-go. APCs, SPAAGs and (howitzer-based) SPGs are a-ok. The big question remains - what if someone mounted a 120 mm Rheinmetall gun on an armored train? Jokes aside, I think the reason that artillery and anti-aircraft is ok with Scholz is that they're very unlikely to be used to spearhead an assault, and thus won't result in problematic media footage. Whereas Leopards getting into a tank battle with Russian MBTs would be much more likely to end up in embarrassing footage (regardless of who won said battle). The Marders are probably just because most politicians seems to be extremely confused about IFVs and consider them weirdly named tanks. The former Danish minister of defense dismissed NATO criticism regarding our lack of modern IFVs with a reference to our MBTs and how they were the same thing. PederP fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Jun 21, 2022 |
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Jun 21, 2022 16:11
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is there anything comparable to the PZH 2000 in US arsenal in terms of modernity? The M777 seemed like a hand-me-down but still better than what Russians had at least until you get into MLRS or PGMs
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Jun 21, 2022 16:21
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steinrokkan posted:First, a mercenary is ONLY a combatant who enlists to fight for a side in a conflict solely for the reasons of monetary gain, and is paid significantly more than combatants of the regular forces. Volunteers, foreigners fighting within national army etc. are very much NOT mercenaries. The US (and Australia) in Afghanistan took a different view to you. Foreign nationals suspected of attempting to harm US citizens that were captured in Afghanistan were not afforded the Geneva conventions (as opposed to national soldiers of the Taliban) and instead shipped off to Guantanamo bay and other places. Using the standards set by the US (Aus as well), the Russians have quite a bit of leeway with what to do with non-Ukrainian nationals suspected of trying to harm Russian citizens. Torture (waterboarding), solitary confinement, indefinite detention, etc all are options with precedence from a global power in the last 20 years. There is a reason that Australia, the US, I think the UK but don't quote me are discouraging (and have generally discouraged) going off to go fighting for other countries / other causes. Not only to protect the individual though, but because then what to do with the trauma riddled individuals after the fighting is a challenge too even if they don't get caught.
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Jun 21, 2022 16:21
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Electric Wrigglies posted:The US (and Australia) in Afghanistan took a different view to you. Foreign nationals suspected of attempting to harm US citizens that were captured in Afghanistan were not afforded the Geneva conventions (as opposed to national soldiers of the Taliban) and instead shipped off to Guantanamo bay and other places. Using the standards set by the US (Aus as well), the Russians have quite a bit of leeway with what to do with non-Ukrainian nationals suspected of trying to harm Russian citizens. Torture (waterboarding), solitary confinement, indefinite detention, etc all are options with precedence from a global power in the last 20 years. It's not my view, it's stated very clearly in the Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions, which lists the following 6 criteria for mercenaries, all of which must be fulfilled: "A mercenary is any person who: Is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict; Does, in fact, take a direct part in hostilities; Is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party; Is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict; Is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and Has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces. What the US did in Guantanamo was clearly illegal. Though I don't believe the detainees were held there because of charges of mercenary activities, rather than terrorism. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Jun 21, 2022 |
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Jun 21, 2022 16:36
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https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1539255682947502085?s=20&t=BIDFBkF8ztjfdS11h2m9yg
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Jun 21, 2022 16:42
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Alan Smithee posted:is there anything comparable to the PZH 2000 in US arsenal in terms of modernity? The M777 seemed like a hand-me-down but still better than what Russians had The M777 is probably the best towed 155mm gun out there right now. PzH2000 is a tracked and armored 155mm SPG with a autoloader which puts it into a different class of weapon even though the guns are both 155mm and is a better weapon because of that. The closest US equivalent would be the M109A7, a tracked and armored 155mm SPG, which isn't bad but is definitely not as good in terms of range or RoF as the PzH2000. Part of it is the gun and part of it is the lack of a autoloader. Its basically a Vietnam era system that has been continuously upgraded since then (hence the A7 on the end of M109 designation). The US has been talking about replacing it since the late 90's/early 2000's and has tried at least a couple of times but the programs were failures for one reason or another. The latest try, the M1299, is still in development and reuses some tech (the autoloader I think) from one of the previous failures. Supposedly development is going well and it might actually get accepted and mass produced. That is years away at best though.
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Jun 21, 2022 16:43
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Alan Smithee posted:is there anything comparable to the PZH 2000 in US arsenal in terms of modernity? The M777 seemed like a hand-me-down but still better than what Russians had M777 are advanced (super light) 155mm towed artillery and is the current main US field gun. You can tow them behind just about anything but they cost like 10x what a normal gun costs due to all the titanium and poo poo The US has M109s for SPGs but they haven’t replaced them and they are older. M109s have been sent by Canada and other countries iirc PzH2000 are supposed to have a crazy rate of fire compared to other NATO artillery efb
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Jun 21, 2022 16:48
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M777 are super easy to airlift too
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Jun 21, 2022 16:51
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Alan Smithee posted:is there anything comparable to the PZH 2000 in US arsenal in terms of modernity? The M777 seemed like a hand-me-down but still better than what Russians had No. We had something in development which would have been comparable/better, the XM2001 Crusader, but that got canned. PzH 2000 might arguably be the best self-propelled artillery system in the world right now.
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Jun 21, 2022 16:52
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Mr. Apollo posted:Did anything every come of the OSINT accounts saying they were taking a break for a few days? I remember some people were suggesting that there may have been a major OPSEC breach in the UAF so they suffered a major defeat. Those OSINT accounts don't post anything that isn't public. In fact, almost all of them do news/telegram aggregation, not OSINT. There are just a lot of them because it's an easy grift for a 17 year old to pull off.
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Jun 21, 2022 16:57
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Electric Wrigglies posted:The US (and Australia) in Afghanistan took a different view to you. Foreign nationals suspected of attempting to harm US citizens that were captured in Afghanistan were not afforded the Geneva conventions (as opposed to national soldiers of the Taliban) and instead shipped off to Guantanamo bay and other places. The argument that Al Qaeda was not a contracting party is clearly arguable, but they certainly were not the regular Afghani army. The Russians have captured foreign members of the regular Ukrainian Army who fought in uniform, under orders, and presumably confirmed to the rules of war. You're comparing apples to oranges here. You could argue (many do and I agree) that the Taliban detainees should have been treated as PoWs under a 'close enough' sort of standard. I'll leave Al Qaeda for others to argue over. The captured Ukrainians are clearly outside the grey zone the Americans (improperly imho) put the Taliban in.
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Jun 21, 2022 17:04
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Kraftwerk posted:What is so special about the P2000s that they keep coming up as this hyped up wonder weapon? Modern fire control makes the PzH2000 more capable than anything UA has gotten recently, bar maybe the CEASARs. They can be scattered around a fairly wide area and still accomplish their mission as a unit, can bring their fire to bear very quickly, and displace just as fast. Their high rate of fire combined with their FC systems allows something called Time on Target, firing multiple projectiles in ever decreasing arcs on the same target. First and last projectiles hit the target at the same time after the vehicle has displaced. The vehicle itself is more capable than all of the Soviet poo poo, US M109s, Polish franken-guns, and the equal of Britain's AS90. It loving should be, as it was designed thiry years after the first three of those systems. Lastly, it fires most of the latest and greatest NATO 155mm ammo. Stupid accurate at great range in the right hands with rocket assisted projectiles. efb x3-4
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Jun 21, 2022 17:08
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Saint Celestine posted:We had something in development which would have been comparable/better, the XM2001 Crusader, but that got canned. It was supposed to have a lot of really slick tech (including a cannon that used liquid propellants originally!) but none of it worked quite as pitched, broke constantly, was stupidly expensive, and the oft cited accuracy problems were the final nail in the coffin for it. The follow on NLOS project was apparently almost as bad of a poo poo show despite the also impressive hype and it got canned too. The M1299 is a much much more derivative project (its pretty much another M109 upgrade, pretty big one though) with much less lofty goals which are the 2 main reasons why it'll probably succeed and not cost a mint to make or keep running.
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Jun 21, 2022 17:12
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This makes me wonder if US military does any cheap (by military standards) grants to develop technology the way, say, NASA does?
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Jun 21, 2022 17:15
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OddObserver posted:This makes me wonder if US military does any cheap (by military standards) grants to develop technology the way, say, NASA does? The DoD is a huge source of grants of all sizes into all manner of things.
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Jun 21, 2022 17:26
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OddObserver posted:This makes me wonder if US military does any cheap (by military standards) grants to develop technology the way, say, NASA does?
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Jun 21, 2022 17:53
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Shes Not Impressed posted:https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1539255682947502085?s=20&t=BIDFBkF8ztjfdS11h2m9yg Lazy motherfucker will do anything but his job eh? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 21, 2022 17:55
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You guys have forgotten about the Polish Krab SPG, which is on par with the pzh2000 and, more importantly, has been actually delivered and in significantly higher numbers than the pzh2000 (18 delivered, 60 more ordered).
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Jun 21, 2022 17:57
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Jethro posted:Maybe I'm not totally understanding the question, but this seems like a bit silly to ask on the DARPA-developed internet I forgot about that, but I was more specifically thinking of the artillery project collapsing from all the new tech --- it feels like it may work better to get all the fancy stuff worked out and proven in proof of concept stuff before trying it on the big army -supplying contracts.
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Jun 21, 2022 17:58
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Grakkus posted:You guys have forgotten about the Polish Krab SPG, which is on par with the pzh2000 and, more importantly, has been actually delivered and in significantly higher numbers than the pzh2000 (18 delivered, 60 more ordered). madeintaipei mentioned the polish franken-guns, and the pzh2000 has double their rate of fire
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